Atheists:what does a book gotta have to prove its God's

[~Amin~]

Yours is a splendid insight and clearly posited too. Congratulations. Because, as you said, "Islamic logic is a complete system of thought that follows its own very circular reasoning",

Actually you could in REALITY apply this to your self, try it.

Islam is not just a teaching trying to reach out to God. It is also a political system which seeks to become a world state (world government based on Shariat), wipe out all contrary ideas of God and install itself as a perfect system for mankind.

Were have you been BRAIN washed,
this is a trully finatical approach, what good did your little comments do?
And argue NOT with the people of the book except in a way
that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them,
Qur'an 29,46.
So i ASK YOU if i cant ARGUE with non Muslims how can we
WIPE them out?.:sad4:

 

[K.Venugopal]

And argue NOT with the people of the book except in a way that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them,
Qur'an 29,46.quote]

It is well-known that the Quran divides mankind into believers and non-believers and the non-believers as people of the book and people without book (or no recognized book). What advice does Quran give about arguing with those with no books? Also, among the injustice counted by the Quran is questioning Allah and his Messenger. What fate is reserved for questioning Allah and his Messenger?

Further, Amin, I wish to hear you further on the splitting of the moon.

 

[Autodidact]

Amin: What percentage of the people who call themselves Muslim do you think accurately represent the faith?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Amin,

I think it might be useful to go back to your original question:

To the Atheists:

A very basic question what does a book have to
contain to prove it was sent by God?

Quite simply, it would have to contain proof that it was sent by God. I have no idea what that would entail, but I assume that a perfect, all-knowing, all-powerful God would know what that proof would be and would be capable of expressing it in the best way possible.

And the fact that I am so far unconvinced that any book was sent by God implies, IMO, that nothing I have read from any book contains that proof.

If the God described by the Muslims tried to convince me of His existence, I would be convinced. The fact that I have not been convinced leaves two possiblities in my mind:

- your God is not trying to convince me of His existence.
- your God is not as you think He is (if He exists at all).

 

[A. Ben-Shema]

To the Atheists:

A very basic question what does a book have to contain to prove it was sent by God?

God does not send books, God sends 'Prophets' and 'Wise' men and 'Teachers' (Matt 23:34).
Matt 23:34 "Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town."

Those who merely read and rely on books are the Spiritually blind (Pharisees)!

See here (CLICK) for a detailed explanation of the continual succession of genuine Prophets of God.

No one can receive the Spirit through any book whatsoever!

PLU

 

[K.Venugopal]

the continual succession of genuine Prophets of God.

Does the succession continue uptill this day?

 

[s2a]

My objection is you want us to ask God things which contradict what God has revealed, I would not ask God for what you propose[/color]
because it contradicts revelation, this may be a LITTLE HEAVY for you but you
asked for it.

And those who DO NOT expect the meeting with us say, "why were
not the angels sent down to us, OR WHY DO WE NOT SEE OUR LORD?"
Indeed, they think too HIGHLY of THEMSELVES, and are scornfull with
GREAT pride Qur'an 25,21.
was that too much for you,
This indicates the awesomeness of God He has the power to be loved and be
devoted to with out being seen, so if He has this power, i ASK you why should
He be seen?

All I (scornfully) ask is, why not?
What is it to Him?
There is no ant hill full of industrious ants that I would circumspectly fear, nor otherwise avoid, in "revealing my face" upon them all. The ants might not see me as their "god"; yet with the modest and mortal hand of myself and garden hose, the ant hill, and all the ants within are destroyed. I require neither their (the ants) obedience to stay my hand, nor punish their doubts (or lack of "understanding") to thusly condemn then to oblivion. I could...but then, I recognize the value of ants in our world.

Why is your god so elusive, so "hidden" to all those atheist ants that but ask that He show His face upon the anthill? What has He got to lose? What?

Because And even if we opened to them a gate from the heaven and
they continued therein to ascend, They(atheists) would say, "our eyes
have only been dazzled. Rather, we are a people affected by magic"
Qur'an 15.14,15.

Indeed, people are readily dazzled by "magic", which is exactly why my "miracle proposal" eliminates any possible explanations beyond anything other than a most divine "intervention".

You just dont get it, Even if all this happened you cant believe unless God wills,
everything is in His Control, and many atheiests ive spoken to(not all)
ask silly things and when you answer them, they make ridiculous remarks and think
that there smart. Even if God did these things you would look for excuses to disbelieve, you see most atheists dont ask questions to know, they rather ask to find mistakes and to mock, if you dont believe me look carefuly at th responses.

I think you unfairly (and self-servedly) minimize my sincerity and earnestness. I have offered "exactly" what I would require to "believe" in either your god, or (of which) any other god that could manifest the "miracle" that I propose. I'm not especially particular in this regard, and I retain no rooting interest as to god (or whose) might effectively fulfill such a miracle. Really. But you should believe me when I say, with all earnest sincerity, that any claimed god that would answer His adherents most ardent prayers to deliver a miracle amongst (and involving) the entirety of the cosmos to effect a genuine and worshipful and consecrated following within the ranks of millions or billions of yet unbelieving/misled heretics to accept the "truth of god"...I WOULD become a "true believer".

The miracles of God are CLEAR, just coz you reject them
doesn't make them false, on the contrary, it PROVES all that God says
in His Revelation.

To those of requisite faith, yes....the "miracles of God" seem CLEAR. Just "coz" you insist that they are "true". doesn't make them so either...

Yet millions (billions?) remain UNCLEAR, and (yet) do not "see"? How do you account for this failing of human reason...this rejection of obvious and unequivocally apparent divine power and authority? Is such abject denial purely irrational, or beyond any scope or measure of human reason? Is it "crazy" NOT to "believe in" Allah as "god"?

I only propose a "method", a divine "miracle", that might prospectively serve to convert a few BILLION unbelievers, heretics, skeptics, and atheists...to properly acknowledge and accept your god, as THE GOD. Even if only ONE person of BILLIONS comes to "see" this "truth", what wrong with that? Again...what has "god" got to lose in this proposition? How is His "authority" or "eternal dominion" lessened by such a revealing miracle?

This was clearly ON the topic.

NO, it wasn't...but moving on...

This remark of yours, made me feel as though I'm putting RF before
my family, was i right? if so, its NOT trivial.

NO, that was a false presumption of yours. I know nothing of your family, nor one whit of your personalized priorities/motivations (and I presume to offer none)...just as you may fail in appreciating my own. I was merely asserting my own estimable values upon my own participation within RF...and accordingly asserted that my time and efforts within RF are trivial to me.

And you cant will UNLESS God wills the Almighty.

"UNLESS God wills the Almighty"?

Could you explain that phrase in any way that any unbeliever might somehow hope to comprehend? It has NO meaning--whatsoever--to me.

You have yet to even define or provide an exampled "miracle" of whatever your god might, or may have, managed/maifested in the past or present. That failing is on you. How can I, or anyone else, "know" a miracle has occurred, if you won't even tell us what qualities or aspects that such a "miracle" should/might include or entail?

Can you not, or will you not, provide at least one exampled "miracle" that might be evaluated for explanation in otherwise natural causes? Whatever that evidenced "miracle" may have been...I ask you...what was the evidently divine "purpose" of such a miracle, and whom was intended most to benefit from being it's witness?

 

[A. Ben-Shema]

Does the succession continue uptill this day?

Most certainly ~ God would never leave us for a moment without a genuine living (contemporary) Spiritual Guide!

PLU

 

[gnostic]

Because And even if we opened to them a gate from the heaven and
they continued therein to ascend, They(atheists) would say, "our eyes
have only been dazzled. Rather, we are a people affected by magic"
Qur'an 15.14,15.
You just dont get it, Even if all this happened you cant believe unless God wills,
everything is in His Control, and many atheiests ive spoken to(not all)
ask silly things and when you answer them, they make ridiculous remarks and think
that there smart. Even if God did these things you would look for excuses to disbelieve, you see most atheists dont ask questions to know, they rather ask to find
mistakes and to mock, if you dont believe me look carefuly at th responses.

My objection is you want us to ask God things which contradict what God has revealed, I would not ask God for what you propose
because it contradicts revelation, this may be a LITTLE HEAVY for you but you
asked for it.

And those who DO NOT expect the meeting with us say, "why were
not the angels sent down to us, OR WHY DO WE NOT SEE OUR LORD?"
Indeed, they think too HIGHLY of THEMSELVES, and are scornfull with
GREAT pride Qur'an 25,21.
was that too much for you,
This indicates the awesomeness of God He has the power to be loved and be
devoted to with out being seen, so if He has this power, i ASK you why should
He be seen?

A book is a book. It can contain facts or fiction.

I would prefer to have evidences of god's existence through my own experience than rely on book that tell fantasy about Solomon controlling a legion of djinns or talking to birds or ants, found in the Qur'an, something that sounds like it come from Arabian tales of 1001 nights.

Long before any of writings of the bible or Qur'an saw the light of day, there were Sumerian religion that speaks of talking eagle and snake, even a talking worm. Religion and mythology have fables of talking animals or people and animals talking to each other.

We know these to be "myth" or "fable", but if we reject these ancient religion as myth, but not that of Bible (Genesis) and Qur'an that have similar fables?

Just like the Bible, the Qur'an is sadly lacking in physical evidences. It take far more for an agnostic person like to me to believe in whatever book may say without question.

I don't it is wrong to question any scripture. Faith may be good and well, but only fools take faith blindly without any evidence.

If some people (disbelievers) have the tendency to mock believers it is because religious people failed to provide facts for their belief.

 

[~Amin~]

All I (scornfully) ask is, why not?
What is it to Him?

Hello. s2a it seems your going in circles, same questions put in different ways,:yes:
please if you have inquires, PLEASE make it brief, short I'm more then HAPPY to
respond, look through my threads, Alhamdulillah(praise God) so many people
so many comments, questions and so on, you get the point, i IN no way disrespect
you i promise i like your thoughts, but its impossible to respond to everyone.

 

[s2a]

Hello. s2a it seems your going in circles, same questions put in different ways,:yes:

Yes...same questions...put in different ways...all met with evasion and non sequitur responses. I keep hoping that you will eventually attempt to answer one of these same questions put in different ways...but you are testing my faith in this hope...

please if you have inquires, PLEASE make it brief, short I'm more then HAPPY to
respond, look through my threads, Alhamdulillah(praise God) so many people
so many comments, questions and so on, you get the point, i IN no way disrespect
you i promise i like your thoughts, but its impossible to respond to everyone.

I can offer you no such promises. Just the same, you need not respond to "everyone". If you like, you could just devote your entire time and energies responding to my inquiries. You never know...perhaps many lurkers (people that read, but never post) may very well be depending on you, and you alone, to lend salient, pointed, and considered reply to the pointed, direct, and unambiguous questions I have put to you.

Recall...you instigated this thread. It's your choice to either engage or ignore the respondents you have invited to comment upon your OP.

I have offered you the courtesy of my conscientious and considered replies/rebuttals to that OP. Your evasions and equivocations in response are evident, and unmistakable. Is this the testament of your personal faith that you wish reflected here?

If so...that's fine with me. I have nothing to profit or lose in validating my perspectives.

If not, then focus...be more discriminating...and try harder. ;-)

 

[s2a]

Yes...same questions...put in different ways...all met with evasion and non sequitur responses. I keep hoping that you will eventually attempt to answer one of these same questions put in different ways...but you are testing my faith in this hope...



I can offer you no such promises. Just the same, you need not respond to "everyone". If you like, you could just devote your entire time and energies responding to my inquiries. You never know...perhaps many lurkers (people that read, but never post) may very well be depending on you, and you alone, to lend salient, pointed, and considered reply to the pointed, direct, and unambiguous questions I have put to you.

Recall...you instigated this thread. It's your choice to either engage or ignore the respondents you have invited to comment upon your OP.

I have offered you the courtesy of my conscientious and considered replies/rebuttals to that OP. Your evasions and equivocations in response are evident, and unmistakable. Is this the testament of your personal faith that you wish reflected here?

If so...that's fine with me. I have nothing to profit or lose in validating my perspectives.

If not, then focus...be more discriminating...and try harder. ;-)

s2a---one

Amin---zero


Not that anyone's counting...

;-=)

 

[rojse]

To the Atheists:

A very basic question what does a book have to
contain to prove it was sent by God?

A lot of people have stated their ideas, and I want to state what I think should be in there:

- A precise, technical prediction, such as the speed of light, electrical charge of an electron, ectetera that can be tested
- Description of a future technology, including a description of the construction process, specific diagrams, technological specifications that relate to capacity, use, material required, and so forth
- A formula that solves a physical problem, for which we have not calculated an answer
- Tells me the lottery numbers will be for the next draw
- Tells me the horses that will win the Melbourne Cup for the next five years, along with betting odds

However many of these are satisfied, I want the book to be in plain English, not translated from a language that I cannot speak, into obscure, complex passages that are hard to follow. This book needs to be dropped into my house via God's mail system, which really is not a big ask for an omniprescent and omnipotent being.

 

[kai]

To the Atheists:

A very basic question what does a book have to
contain to prove it was sent by God?

it couldnt be a book a book is a man made thing , written typed ,word processed , and published so to me nothing , it could not be a book.

 

[~Amin~]

it couldnt be a book a book is a man made thing , written typed ,word processed , and published so to me nothing , it could not be a book.

Actually a tree is a creation of God, then minipulated by man to
make paper, a book, True been writen by man, but revealed by God.

 

[kai]

Actually a tree is a creation of God, then minipulated by man to
make paper, a book, True been writen by man, but revealed by God.

sorry man a tree is a tree , paper is paper and a book is a book , it would have to be something no one could doubt , some thing extraordinary ,how many people in the world say 6billion then why not 6 billion burning bushes.
that would do it for me.

 

[yossarian22]

Give us a unified field theory.

Hell, don't bother with a book. Write it in the clouds, or make a constellation of it.

 

[kai]

Give us a unified field theory.

Hell, don't bother with a book. Write it in the clouds, or make a constellation of it.

yes all better than someones book

 

[doppelganger]

To the Atheists:

A very basic question what does a book have to
contain to prove it was sent by God?

Nothing.

 

[~Amin~]

Nothing.

Why? how else should God communicate with us?