Atheists: What would be evidence of God’s existence?

[Trailblazer]

Nope, 2-1 is not 2.

There is no -1.

 

[Link]

God doesn't know the future because it doesn't exist. God doesn't know how to create another God because it's impossible to know since it's impossible to do. Same with knowing the future. It's not possible unless God does an evil thing and set out our future before hand.

 

[Sheldon]

Sheldon 2 claims, zero objective evidence.

The best evidence is one's own self.

Another bare claim.

Even the greatest scientific proofs can alter when we gain new scientific evidences.

Science doesn't involve proofs, that's logic and mathematics, and this deepity is not evidence for any deity.

The spirit is not found by the 5 material senses, which are not the creative force, but derived from it. The spirit is found by looking within and contemplating the forces behind the material existence.

5 claims zero evidence

In fact Einstein tapped into this greater knowledge.

Einstein’s Unique Approach to Thinking | Evernote

"
Einstein says: “The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish.

As so often during his life, he refused and disturbed the accepted categories. We do the great physicist a disservice when we go to him to legitimise our belief in God, or in his absence.”

Best not invoke Einstein in any theistic appeal to authority fallacy.

 

[Sheldon]

There is no -1.

There is in your claim, that a deity knows which one choice from two, that we would make before we make it.

 

[Trailblazer]

2 choices, only 1 can be made, if as you claim a deity exists that KNOWS which 1 we will make, this means it knew the other was NOT an option.

2 choices, only 1 can be made, if as you claim a deity exists that KNOWS which 1 we will make, but that does not mean the deity knew the other was NOT an option.

 

[Link]

2 choices, only 1 can be made, if as you claim a deity exists that KNOWS which 1 we will make, but that does not mean the deity knew the other was NOT an option.

Yes it does, there is in that moment in time, no other option but the one God knows. It's impossible for us if God knows it to choose otherwise. This is simple.

 

[TheBrokenSoul]

But evolution has been observed at all levels.

That is not true , how far does recorded history go back ? You provide me with the observation of the beginning of humanity ?
Something so complex does not just evolve , you'd have a better argument saying intelligent design created humanity .
Do you really expect people we started off as some micro organism ? If so where did this micro organism come from ?

 

[Trailblazer]

There is in your claim, that a deity knows which one choice from two, that we would make before we make it.

There is no -1 in the sense that we could have chosen either one of the two options.

 

[Link]

There is no -1 in the sense that we could have chosen either one of the two options.

There is no could if in that moment of time, you will choose the one God knows no matter what.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That is not true , how far does recorded history go back ? You provide me with the observation of the beginning of humanity ?
Something so complex does not just evolve , you'd have a better argument saying intelligent design created humanity .
Do you really expect people we started off as some micro organism ? If so where did this micro organism come from ?

In biology history is recorded in the fossil record. It goes back billions of years.

But I am so happy that you just admitted evolution to be a fact. Nice.

 

[Sheldon]

2 choices, only 1 can be made, if as you claim a deity exists that KNOWS which 1 we will make, but that does not mean the deity knew the other was NOT an option.

Of course it does, either it knows which one option we will choose, or it does not, if it knows before we make it the one choice we will make, then that negates all other choices. I created a hypothetical scenario of just 2 to make as simple as possible for you, but sadly it seems you can't understand it anyway.

Ah well, no harm done.

 

[Link]

If God knows the future, it can't even make a decision itself. Everything is set for it to choose too. This is a disgusting and horrible belief about God most humans have adopted.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It's simple, if God knows the future, it means he determined to be that before hand, and you are going to choose the one he knows you are going to choose.

There is no way to know the future unless God determined it before hand. He is above doing that, so the future is unknown.

Also, how do you pray to God thinking it's all set.

وَلَقَدْ خَلَقْنَا الْإِنسَانَ وَنَعْلَمُ مَا تُوَسْوِسُ بِهِ نَفْسُهُ ۖ وَنَحْنُ أَقْرَبُ إِلَيْهِ مِنْ حَبْلِ الْوَرِيدِ ﴿16﴾

Certainly We have created man and We know to what his soul tempts him, and We are nearer to him than his jugular vein.

وَمَا يَعْزُبُ عَن رَّبِّكَ مِن مِّثْقَالِ ذَرَّةٍ فِي الْأَرْضِ وَلَا فِي السَّمَاءِ وَلَا أَصْغَرَ مِن ذَٰلِكَ وَلَا أَكْبَرَ إِلَّا فِي كِتَابٍ مُّبِينٍ ﴿61﴾

Not an atom’s weight escapes your Lord in the earth or in the sky, nor [is there] anything smaller than that nor bigger, but it is in a manifest Book

أَلَا يَعْلَمُ مَنْ خَلَقَ وَهُوَ اللَّطِيفُ الْخَبِيرُ ﴿14﴾

Would He who has created not know? And He is the All-attentive, the All-aware

What about those passages?

Regards Tony

 

[Sheldon]

Yes it does, there is in that moment in time, no other option but the one God knows. It's impossible for us if God knows it to choose otherwise. This is simple.

I certainly thought so about 4 pages ago. I don't think she wants to understand it, and is just doggedly arguing a position in line with her beliefs, ironic eh?

 

[Subduction Zone]

If God knows the future, it can't even make a decision itself. Everything is set for it to choose too. This is a disgusting and horrible belief about God most humans have adopted.

For once I agree with you. The problem is that for many people they run into severe cognitive dissonance when this problem arises. They cannot afford to understand how it is an extreme contradiction to say that God is omnipotent and omniscient and yet also believe in free will.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If God knows the future, it can't even make a decision itself. Everything is set for it to choose too. This is a disgusting and horrible belief about God most humans have adopted.

May God's Will be done, and not ours is the greatest prayer we can have in faith.

Regards Tony

 

[Subduction Zone]

I certainly thought so about 4 pages ago. I don't think she wants to understand it, and is just doggedly arguing a position in line with her beliefs, ironic eh?

Once again, this manifests itself in cognitive dissonance in some believers. Simple ideas just cannot be gotten across no matter how hare one tries.

 

[Trailblazer]

Does it know which one of the two choices I will make? Or are you know saying it just knows I will have choices and make one, as that is describing any human.

The deity knows which choice you will make.

Of course it would, again faced with just 2 mutually exclusive choices, if a deity existed that knew before I made the choice, which one I will choose, then my choice doesn't exist for me.

The deity knew which one you would choose, a or b, but you had a choice as to whether you would choose a or b.

If you chose a, then the deity would have known you would choose a.
If you chose b, then the deity would have known you would choose b.

 

[Sheldon]

وَلَقَدْ خَلَقْنَا الْإِنسَانَ وَنَعْلَمُ مَا تُوَسْوِسُ بِهِ نَفْسُهُ ۖ وَنَحْنُ أَقْرَبُ إِلَيْهِ مِنْ حَبْلِ الْوَرِيدِ ﴿16﴾

Certainly We have created man and We know to what his soul tempts him, and We are nearer to him than his jugular vein.

وَمَا يَعْزُبُ عَن رَّبِّكَ مِن مِّثْقَالِ ذَرَّةٍ فِي الْأَرْضِ وَلَا فِي السَّمَاءِ وَلَا أَصْغَرَ مِن ذَٰلِكَ وَلَا أَكْبَرَ إِلَّا فِي كِتَابٍ مُّبِينٍ ﴿61﴾

Not an atom’s weight escapes your Lord in the earth or in the sky, nor [is there] anything smaller than that nor bigger, but it is in a manifest Book

أَلَا يَعْلَمُ مَنْ خَلَقَ وَهُوَ اللَّطِيفُ الْخَبِيرُ ﴿14﴾

Would He who has created not know? And He is the All-attentive, the All-aware

What about those passages?

Regards Tony

Irrelevant, we are arguing about the rational consequences of a belief, not about which unevidenced belief is true, as that is pointless.

If a deity knows what I am going to do before I do it then all choice is an illusion.

 

[Link]

وَلَقَدْ خَلَقْنَا الْإِنسَانَ وَنَعْلَمُ مَا تُوَسْوِسُ بِهِ نَفْسُهُ ۖ وَنَحْنُ أَقْرَبُ إِلَيْهِ مِنْ حَبْلِ الْوَرِيدِ ﴿16﴾

Certainly We have created man and We know to what his soul tempts him, and We are nearer to him than his jugular vein.

وَمَا يَعْزُبُ عَن رَّبِّكَ مِن مِّثْقَالِ ذَرَّةٍ فِي الْأَرْضِ وَلَا فِي السَّمَاءِ وَلَا أَصْغَرَ مِن ذَٰلِكَ وَلَا أَكْبَرَ إِلَّا فِي كِتَابٍ مُّبِينٍ ﴿61﴾

Not an atom’s weight escapes your Lord in the earth or in the sky, nor [is there] anything smaller than that nor bigger, but it is in a manifest Book

أَلَا يَعْلَمُ مَنْ خَلَقَ وَهُوَ اللَّطِيفُ الْخَبِيرُ ﴿14﴾

Would He who has created not know? And He is the All-attentive, the All-aware

What about those passages?

Regards Tony

The book is written by the Imam of the time, and is in reality himself. Many verses show there is a witness and illuminating leader in all times and hadiths testify. The Imams don't know the future, they know some things are destined to happen if a condition happens or b conditions happens, the Quran is written to predict the future, given some conditions happen. But none of it is set.

And this is what people don't know about the Mahdi, he is WORRIED IF HE WILL BE A MERCY OR PUNISHMENT TO MANKIND. HE DOES NOT KNOW THE RESULT RIGHT NOW.