Atheists: What would be evidence of God’s existence?

[KWED]

Of course it's not irrelevant what choice we want to make!
That is your whole argument, isn't it?
..that we are not free to choose because we HAVE TO choose what God knows.
Why do we HAVE TO choose what God knows?
Simply, because God knows that we WANT to choose it.

We are free to choose otherwise, if we can choose otherwise if we WANT to choose otherwise.

We choose what we want to choose.
That means our ability to choose is not compromised.
The fact that alternative choices will not be taken is irrelevant.

Along with other apologists, you just keep asserting that all other choices are available, even though you also admit that only one outcome is possible.
I can smell the turmoil from here.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Along with other apologists, you just keep asserting that all other choices are available, even though you also admit that only one outcome is possible.

Apologist?
Only one outcome is possible, yes.
The choice that you WANT to choose.

I notice that you haven't picked my argument apart. line by line.
That is because you can't. It is the logical truth.
..something that you seem to struggle with.

I hope that you understand the apparent paradox more clearly now.
A lot of people have difficulty in understanding it.
I have spent many hours discussing this topic, and know that it can be confusing.

 

[Link]

Of course it isn't.. [ saying that Allah does not know the future ]

187 They ask thee of the (destined) Hour, when will it come to port. Say: Knowledge thereof is with my Lord only. He alone will manifest it at its proper time. It is heavy in the heavens and the earth. It cometh not to you save unawares. They question thee as if thou couldst be well informed thereof. Say: Knowledge thereof is with Allah only, but most of mankind know not.
-surah Al A'raf-

The above verse is saying that only God knows when the end of the world will be.

110 He knoweth (all) that is before them and (all) that is behind them, while they cannot compass it in knowledge.
-surah Ta Ha-

and of course, Ayat-ul-kursi..

255 Allah – there is no deity except Him, the Ever-Living, the Sustainer of [all] existence. Neither drowsiness overtakes Him nor sleep. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. Who is it that can intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after them, and they encompass not a thing of His knowledge except for what He wills. His Kursi extends over the heavens and the earth, and their preservation tires Him not. And He is the Most High, the Most Great.

You notice knowing what is before them and after them is only used for God's chosen ones. The chosen ones he knows they will remain upon the straight path. He doesn't use this phrase with normal people though.

With normal people, he says he is yet to know if they are true or liars or will strive or be patient.

 

[Sheldon]

Prior to putting on the Red shirt the option to put on one of multicoloure(God's Choice for us) was also given, the choice became ours to put on the red only.

Each time we choose to put on the red, the multicoloured is still available.

Regards Tony

That would only be true if a deity didn't know which ONE shirt we will choose before hand.

 

[Sheldon]

Apologist?
Only one outcome is possible, yes.
The choice that you WANT to choose.

I notice that you haven't picked my argument apart. line by line.
That is because you can't. It is the logical truth.
..something that you seem to struggle with.

I hope that you understand the apparent paradox more clearly now.
A lot of people have difficulty in understanding it.
I have spent many hours discussing this topic, and know that it can be confusing.

Your argument? Logical? You're kidding right, firstly you've offered no argument just an unevidenced claim, with a ludicrous and obvious contradiction. Inherent contradictions and unevidenced claims don't become logical, just because you either ignore or don't understand them.

 

[Link]

I love the way Link has simply re-invented Islam to accommodate his realisation. He's obviously smarter than he looks!

You mean I rely on God's rope rather then do what Quran forbid and follow "our great ones and leaders so they lead astray from the path".

 

[Link]

Apologist?
Only one outcome is possible, yes.
The choice that you WANT to choose.

I notice that you haven't picked my argument apart. line by line.
That is because you can't. It is the logical truth.
..something that you seem to struggle with.

I hope that you understand the apparent paradox more clearly now.
A lot of people have difficulty in understanding it.
I have spent many hours discussing this topic, and know that it can be confusing.

You may want to choose it, but the want and will would not be free-will or a choice. It would be an illusion of free-will.

 

[TheBrokenSoul]

The existence of some sort of non-specific supernatural force is a possibility, but highly unlikely given all the available evidence.

The available evidence that is available is based on localised observations , we do not know what is beyond our observations . There is possibilities of almost anything outside of our vision in {x^n,y^n,z^n}
space

 

[TheBrokenSoul]

You being unable to understand something does not make it inaccurate. Of course space has physicality. It has physical characteristics, like being three-dimensional and having a specific geometry. The theory that covers the expansion of space, which is, as you quoted, a metric expansion, not an expansion into something else, has not only made multiple successful predictions but is also required to make the GPS system work by taking into account the distortion of space-time that is the Earth's gravitational field.

And again, the "nothing outside" doesn't mean there is some nothingness, it means that outside doesn't refer to a place (and space itself might be infinite anyway). You appear to be stuck in 19th century physics.

Hmmm no ,space is occupied by physical matter , space-time is virtual . Dimensions of existing observable space are relative and virtual . You seem to fail to understand that space has a uniform value of {x0,y0,z0} and outside our visual range , space will still have this uniform value .
Space is independent from time and matter and we do not know what is beyond our vision range , there could be a God for all we know and that is the point . You can't say no there isn't a God with certainty , when we are in the advanced version of the cat in the box .

 

[TheBrokenSoul]

infinity = infinity + 1, which needs further thought.

Infinity is not a number therefore can't be +1 !

An observable universe is xyzt = 1

If God exists , God exists somewhere between 1 and infinity .

 

[ratiocinator]

Hmmm no ,space is occupied by physical matter , space-time is virtual .

That doesn't even make any sense. What do you mean by "virtual"?

Dimensions of existing observable space are relative and virtual . You seem to fail to understand that space has a uniform value of {x0,y0,z0}...

Again, this is utterly meaningless. Space doesn't have a value. In terms of general relativity, space-time is a manifold, specifically a pseudo-Riemannian manifold.

Space is independent from time and matter...

The numerous tests of relativity are very good evidence that you're simply wrong.

You can't say no there isn't a God with certainty...

I didn't and don't. Just that there's no good reason to think that there is.

 

[ratiocinator]

An observable universe is xyzt = 1

I'm not sure what you think you'll gain by posting these meaningless equations.

 

[TheBrokenSoul]

I'm not sure what you think you'll gain by posting these meaningless equations.

Well a normal person understands that a whole volume is one volume .

I could of wrote m/V=1/t but I am not trying to impress anyone on here . I am chilling , relaxing , finding interesting people to talk too . Escaping the science that tormented my soul because the evils just steal all your ideas .
Science forums are time stealing vampires that bleed you dry of information with no respect or rewards .

 

[TheBrokenSoul]

That doesn't even make any sense. What do you mean by "virtual"?

Virtual means that it does not exist in reality . Vector lines plotting space time are not real lines see, we just overlay these lines (vectors) for coordinate use and predictions .

 

[ratiocinator]

Well a normal person understands that a whole volume is one volume .

Yes, a volume is a volume (I'll alert the press!) except that none of your equations express that fact.

I could of wrote m/V=1/t...

I guess you could have, but it's equally meaningless.

...but I am not trying to impress anyone on here .

I wouldn't be concerned that there's much danger of doing that.

 

[ratiocinator]

Vector lines plotting space time are not real lines see, we just overlay these lines (vectors) for coordinate use and predictions .

You said "space-time is virtual". According to our best (well tested) theory, that is wrong, space-time is real. Of course we can apply different coordinates to it, but that isn't the same thing as saying that space-time itself is "virtual".

 

[TheBrokenSoul]

You said "space-time is virtual". According to our best (well tested) theory, that is wrong, space-time is real. Of course we can apply different coordinates to it, but that isn't the same thing as saying that space-time itself is "virtual".

Sorry but space-time is a virtual measuring system , a mathematical model . All mathematical models are virtual . dependent to our own neurological reference frame .
Space-time energy is the physical side and is independent of space but indistinguishable from space .

 

[ratiocinator]

Sorry but space-time is a virtual measuring system , a mathematical model .

The word 'virtual' is just meaningless in this context. The mathematical model of space-time has proved to be a very, very accurate one that tells us that space and time are not separate and that it can be 'curved' by the presence of mass and energy. They are not the two separate and absolute backgrounds of Newtonian physics.

All mathematical models are virtual . dependent to our own neurological reference frame .
Space-time energy is the physical side and is independent of space but indistinguishable from space .

This appears to be meaningless gibberish.

 

[TheBrokenSoul]

The word 'virtual' is just meaningless in this context. The mathematical model of space-time has proved to be a very, very accurate one that tells us that space and time are not separate and that it can be 'curved' by the presence of mass and energy. They are not the two separate and absolute backgrounds of Newtonian physics.


This appears to be meaningless gibberish.

Well for your information I have took The Big Theory back a further two stages in history . I have ''Gods'' equation and can explain how the high dense state was formed . However , in travelling back two further stages than The Big Bang , I found the scientific possibility of a God , unable to explain energies rudiment of existence any way other than a miracle .
The space-time model is a brilliant '''art'' that works , space-time curvature is equally and proportional to space-time energy curvature . It is actually the field energy that curves and the maths represents the curvature . Electromagnetic fields (space-time energy) , electromagnetic radiation (space-time energy) and space are observably indistinguishable , they are all transparent in nature .
Sorry this may be new information to you .

 

[KWED]

Apologist?

Yes. Google it.

Only one outcome is possible, yes.
The choice that you WANT to choose.

That isn't logically sound.
The option I want to choose isn't necessarily the one I choose.

I notice that you haven't picked my argument apart. line by line.

Your posts are usually a bit of a word salad.
Present your argument, line by line, as succinctly as you can, and I will address it.
(Note: this is how debate works. I notice that you repeatedly refuse to answer or address points raised by others.
..something that you seem to struggle with.

I hope that you understand the apparent paradox more clearly now.
A lot of people have difficulty in understanding it.
I have spent many hours discussing this topic, and know that it can be confusing.

lol.