Atheists: What would be evidence of God’s existence?

[RestlessSoul]

Perhaps that means it did work.

Perhaps. Perhaps not.

But one thing is certain; contempt prior to investigation won't yield any new awareness.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Use the language anyway you like; It's your decision to limit yourself like that. Seems to me, a closed mind is destined to remain in darkness.

"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things through the narrow chinks of his cavern."

- William Blake

How is it close-minded to dismiss things that are irrational and illogical?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Perhaps. Perhaps not.

But one thing is certain; contempt prior to investigation won't yield any new awareness.

It will if the evidence exists and is convincing.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

How do I know what?

Sorry, I misread.

 

[RestlessSoul]

How is it close-minded to dismiss things that are irrational and illogical?

It will if the evidence exists and is convincing.

I think you just made my point for me, while answering your own question.

Not much can be gained by asking questions btw, if you assume you already know the answers.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

How is it close-minded to dismiss things that are irrational and illogical?

Because they are a part of how the world works. You have to explain with rationality and logic, how come you dismiss them.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Because they are a part of how the world works.

It is? Where? How?

I know people can be irrational, but that's not what we're talking about, is it?

You have to explain with rationality and logic, how come you dismiss them.

Provide me some examples please because I don't know what you're talking about.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I think you just made my point for me, while answering your own question.

Not much can be gained by asking questions btw, if you assume you already know the answers.

You haven't answered my question. Things that are illogical and irrational are useless to us, imo. If you are saying they are useful, you'll have to let me know how.

Having contempt for something and assuming you know all the answers are two different things.

Evidence is where it's at. Do you have any?

 

[Sheldon]

Use the language anyway you like; It's your decision to limit yourself like that.

Like what, how are you suggesting I have "limited myself" exactly?

Seems to me, a closed mind is destined to remain in darkness.

It seems to me you don't know what a closed mind is, but please show where I have subjected any claim to bias?

It seems you didn't like my answers so you used a no true Scotsman fallacy. No true Scotsman fallacies by the way are inherently biased, it's the nature of the fallacy.

 

[Sheldon]

SkepticThinker said: ↑
How is it close-minded to dismiss things that are irrational and illogical?

You have to explain with rationality and logic, how come you dismiss them.

He already did, he dismisses it only if it is irrational.

 

[RestlessSoul]

You haven't answered my question. Things that are illogical and irrational are useless to us, imo. If you are saying they are useful, you'll have to let me know how.

Having contempt for something and assuming you know all the answers are two different things.

Evidence is where it's at. Do you have any?

Do I have evidence for what, the existence of God? I see His handiwork everywhere. The infinite complexity of the universe which sustains us is all the evidence I need; but it's within each of us that the miracle can be found, if we have the willingness, honesty and open mindedness to search for it.

 

[KWED]

You have to seek within yourself to find the truth you seeking. Spiritual seeking is not a 100% same answer for all. I do not believe the socalled physical world holds the truth.

So what "truth" have you found in the "spiritual world/within yourself", and what practical effect has that had?

 

[RestlessSoul]

Like what, how are you suggesting I have "limited myself" exactly?



It seems to me you don't know what a closed mind is, but please show where I have subjected any claim to bias?

It seems you didn't like my answers so you used a no true Scotsman fallacy. No true Scotsman fallacies by the way are inherently biased, it's the nature of the fallacy.

You have limited yourself to two dimensions of being and perception. If you acknowledge only the existence of mind and body, but deny the spirit, you are inevitably unbalanced; a two sided triangle.

You also limit your ability to communicate, through constant repetition of well rehearsed rhetoric and jargon.

 

[Spirit of Light]

So what "truth" have you found in the "spiritual world/within yourself", and what practical effect has that had?

First of all, I found the spiritual teaching to be true (to me) and it changed my being completely, I found so many aspects of who " I am" that is not me at all. I found that ego are illusion that is not my true being.

The effect is that my personal beliefs has only gotten stronger.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..I'll see your block universe theory and raise you, a "growing block universe theory".

"According to the growing block universe theory of time (or the growing block view), the past and present both exist, and the future as yet does not."

..so you reject the theory of the space-time continuum?
If you believe that the intuitive growing block theory is correct, then you effectively denounce Minowski space.

Minkowski space - Wikipedia

This in turn means that the laws of physics must be evolving and not fixed

 

[SkepticThinker]

Do I have evidence for what, the existence of God? I see His handiwork everywhere. The infinite complexity of the universe which sustains us is all the evidence I need; but it's within each of us that the miracle can be found, if we have the willingness, honesty and open mindedness to search for it.

So you agree that things that are irrational and illogical are of no use to us in these discussions?

"I see His handiwork everywhere" isn't evidence for a God.
"The infinite complexity of the universe" isn't evidence for a God. Especially given how complex this God "Himself" must be.
"Within each of us that the miracle can be found" isn't evidence for a God either.

I mean, I could replace the words "God" with "universe-farting pixies" in the above and end up with the same amount of evidence for the existence of universe-farting pixies as you have for the God you believe in. Which is to say, none.

I am open-minded to any evidence. In fact, I have changed my mind on things when evidence was presented to me that ran counter to what I previously believed. I just haven't seen anything that is convincing, just statements like the ones you've made above that don't get anywhere close to demonstrating the existence of any God(s). They're just bald assertions.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You have limited yourself to two dimensions of being and perception. If you acknowledge only the existence of mind and body, but deny the spirit, you are inevitably unbalanced; a two sided triangle.

You also limit your ability to communicate, through constant repetition of well rehearsed rhetoric and jargon.

Please define the word and then provide some good evidence for the existence of "spirits" and then I'll give them some consideration.

 

[KWED]

You have no choice but to do what the deity has foreseen but you do not know what the deity has foreseen.

Which is why it feels like you have free will to make any choice.

You can choose to do anything you want to do on any day

and whatever you choose it will be what God always knew you would choose.

Which one it it? It isn't be both.

God’ s knowledge puts no constraints on what you can choose, none at all.

Except by fixing what you will choose before you have made the choice, thus making the outcome inevitable.

Simply put, the outcome is known by God because God is all-knowing but the outcome is determined by what humans choose to do.

But that "choice" is determined by what god already knows it will be.

God gave humans free will to use.

Under divine predestination and infallible omniscience, free will cannot exist. Simply asserting we have it does not make it any more possible.
But feel free to explain how, at Time T, you can chose B, C, or D when god already knows you will choose A, and he cannot be wrong.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Not if the choice of A was fixed beforehand and cannot change.

Wrong !
You DO have a choice. You MADE your choice.
..and you chose A.

It is obvious that if G-d knows what you will choose, then you will choose what G-d knows.
You imply that it is IMPOSSIBLE to choose anything other than A because you weren't free to choose. That is total nonsense.
It is a paradox based on confusing what is necessarily true.

It is necessarily true that you will choose A if God knows it.
Notice the word CHOOSE. You CHOSE it

 

[RestlessSoul]

So you agree that things that are irrational and illogical are of no use to us in these discussions?

"I see His handiwork everywhere" isn't evidence for a God.
"The infinite complexity of the universe" isn't evidence for a God. Especially given how complex this God "Himself" must be.
"Within each of us that the miracle can be found" isn't evidence for a God either.

I mean, I could replace the words "God" with "universe-farting pixies" in the above and end up with the same amount of evidence for the existence of universe-farting pixies as you have for the God you believe in. Which is to say, none.

I am open-minded to any evidence. In fact, I have changed my mind on things when evidence was presented to me that ran counter to what I previously believed. I just haven't seen anything that is convincing, just statements like the ones you've made above that don't get anywhere close to demonstrating the existence of any God(s). They're just bald assertions.

Well it’s good that you say your mind can be changed, anyway. And your body is changing all the time, nothing really you can do about that. Which just leaves the spirit…