Atheists: What would be evidence of God’s existence?

[SkepticThinker]

Okay, so there exists beliefs that are irrational and illogical. Then that is a part of how the world works.

No kidding.

 

[Sheldon]

Seek out what, exactly? I used to be a Christian...I realized I didn't have any good evidence to be one. I was just believing because that's what I'd been taught to believe.

Okay. So you rejected what you were taught.

Not even remotely what he said now is it? How does one reject what is not there exactly? He made it very clear that he came to realize there was no good reason to believe what he had been taught, rejecting it was unnecessary at that point I'd have thought. Theists always seem to want to insist atheists have rejected a deity, but that isn't the case. I see no deity nor any shred of evidence for any deity to reject.

I no more reject any deity than I reject mermaids or unicorns or the loch Ness monster. I don't need to reject anything for which no objective data can be offered to examine.

 

[RestlessSoul]

How much time have you spent examining the Aztec deity of gluttony? Or Pagan deities?

I watched Mel Gibson’s Apocalypto once, does that count?

Seriously, what you are referencing is how various diverse cultures conceive of divine power, the spiritual realm, or whatever you want to call it. I’ve spent a bit of time examining some eastern traditions, and found them useful. As I have found the Christian traditions I was brought up with useful. But I’m the end, it’s my belief we are all free to form our own relationship with a God of our understanding.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Not even remotely what he said now is it? How does one reject what is not there exactly? He made it very clear that he came to realize there was no good reason to believe what he had been taught, rejecting it was unnecessary at that point I'd have thought. Theists always seem to want to insist atheists have rejected a deity, but that isn't the case. I see no deity nor any shred of evidence for any deity to reject.

I no more reject any deity than I reject mermaids or unicorns or the loch Ness monster. I don't need to reject anything for which no objective data can be offered to examine.

Yet here you are, apparently 24 hours a day, endlessly not rejecting them.

 

[Sheldon]

Yet here you are, apparently 24 hours a day, endlessly not rejecting them.

You think rejecting claims theists make is the same as rejecting the core belief? I think you know what I meant there, well I would hope you did anyway, given the facile nature of the response.

Maybe you'd prefer I disbelieved without giving theists a chance to explain why they believe? It's ironic but I get called closed minded for not sharing the belief, then vilified for examining what theists think justifies it.

 

[Sheldon]

I watched Mel Gibson’s Apocalypto once, does that count?

Seriously, what you are referencing is how various diverse cultures conceive of divine power, the spiritual realm, or whatever you want to call it.

If you want to make a claim I'd prefer you made it, and not assign it to me. As I don't believe what you said is true. To me the fact religions so accurately reflect the ignorance, and prejudice of the human cultures and the epochs from they are derived suggests to me the claim its origins are divine or divinely inspired has no merit.

I’ve spent a bit of time examining some eastern traditions, and found them useful. As I have found the Christian traditions I was brought up with useful.

Did any of them provide any objective evidence at all?

But I’m the end, it’s my belief we are all free to form our own relationship with a God of our understanding.

Indeed, or to disbelieve there is any deity of course.

 

[CG Didymus]

You have to seek within yourself to find the truth you seeking. Spiritual seeking is not a 100% same answer for all. I do not believe the socalled physical world holds the truth.

Are some answers that people find not true?

I found the spiritual teaching to be true (to me) and it changed my being completely,

And what do you think of the answers other people have found in other religions and other sects of your religion?

Do I have evidence for what, the existence of God? I see His handiwork everywhere. The infinite complexity of the universe which sustains us is all the evidence I need; but it's within each of us that the miracle can be found, if we have the willingness, honesty and open mindedness to search for it.

Same questions... What do think of people that have "found" God and "found" The Truth, but it is in a different than yours. And especially when some of those other people say that your spiritual/religious beliefs are wrong?

 

[CG Didymus]

The basic concept of God is not hard for a child to grasp.

eg.
All things bright and beautiful,
All things great and small,
All things wise and wonderful,
The Lord God made them all.

And who made all the dark and ugly things? The evil and terrible? Since, if God is real and the creator of all, God did, right? But why? Concepts of God get more difficult as we move past the basic good ones.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Are some answers that people find not true?

And what do you think of the answers other people have found in other religions and other sects of your religion?

Same questions... What do think of people that have "found" God and "found" The Truth, but in is different than yours. And especially when some of those other people say that your spiritual/religious beliefs are wrong?

Speaking only for me, I found and still finding so much of what was taught to me in the past to not be truth, it was not done to harm me, but those people did only see the truth they were able to in that moment, but truth is not one single answer in spiritual way of life, there are many many layers of truth and wisdom.

Other people from other religious teachings find the answer they need to gain wisdom they can understand and develop inner wisdom from, that means, when they speak I may not understand their perception of the truth they see, because my perception is different. But both hold some part of the truth. I am fully aware that what I perceive as truth today may change tomorrow.

People from all walks of life will be able to look at me and say " your belief, or your God is wrong" my answer will be, let them believe and say so. I can not say to them what is right or wrong to them.
RF has taught me to not take critique personally

 

[muhammad_isa]

And who made all the dark and ugly things? The evil and terrible? Since, if God is real and the creator of all, God did, right? But why?

Almighty God has given us free-will to choose what path we will tread.

I often hear people swearing f***ing this and that etc.
Those that don't remember G-d and righteousness are more likely to tend towards evil, whether knowingly or unknowingly.

The bottom line is that G-d ALLOWS evil. He doesn't promote it.
Why?
It is our examination. Mankind has been given sovereignty over the earth.
G-d intervenes when He wills.
We all have to return to Him.
i.e. die

 

[RestlessSoul]

Are some answers that people find not true?

And what do you think of the answers other people have found in other religions and other sects of your religion?

Same questions... What do think of people that have "found" God and "found" The Truth, but in is different than yours. And especially when some of those other people say that your spiritual/religious beliefs are wrong?

I haven’t come across many people of other faith traditions telling me my beliefs are wrong. I wouldn’t take much notice if they did, and I wouldn’t presume to tell Muslims, Hindus, or anyone else that their beliefs are wrong. Because I think there is more that unites us than divides us, and that goes for atheists too - though some of the ones on here are a little strident, shall we say.

To me different religions mostly just represent different ways of arriving at certain universal spiritual truths; all the rest is mostly cultural variation, and so long as you respect my culture, I’ll respect yours. I live in one of the most multicultural cities in the world btw, so this is the norm where I come from.

 

[CG Didymus]

Speaking only for me, I found and still finding so much of what was taught to me in the past to not be truth, it was not done to harm me, but those people did only see the truth they were able to in that moment, but truth is not one single answer in spiritual way of life, there are many many layers of truth and wisdom.

Other people from other religious teachings find the answer they need to gain wisdom they can understand and develop inner wisdom from, that means, when they speak I may not understand their perception of the truth they see, because my perception is different. But both hold some part of the truth. I am fully aware that what I perceive as truth today may change tomorrow.

People from all walks of life will be able to look at me and say " your belief, or your God is wrong" my answer will be, let them believe and say so. I can not say to them what is right or wrong to them.
RF has taught me to not take critique personally

I agree completely. Too many religions teach from a book they have called true, infallible, inerrant and the very word of God. Even with a religion like the Baha'is that accept all the religions, still puts their Scriptures as true and the other ones as sort of true, true but not literally true, true but in a symbolic way.

What you're talking about is beyond all of that. And what's a shame, we all know the words can mean different things to different people, but still people believe their interpretation of words is the truth. I think there is a spiritual level above that, that is above just words on a page, and it sounds like you are in that spiritual place. It must be nice. Is it?

 

[Spirit of Light]

I agree completely. Too many religions teach from a book they have called true, infallible, inerrant and the very word of God. Even with a religion like the Baha'is that accept all the religions, still puts their Scriptures as true and the other ones as sort of true, true but not literally true, true but in a symbolic way.

What you're talking about is beyond all of that. And what's a shame, we all know the words can mean different things to different people, but still people believe their interpretation of words is the truth. I think there is a spiritual level above that, that is above just words on a page, and it sounds like you are in that spiritual place. It must be nice. Is it?

Thank you
I would say I am spiritually in a good "place" right now, and I am aware that there is so much more to understand and realize in sufism for me. And as you mentioned, my interpretation or understanding of the teaching is not the only way to understand it, and I can not brush other scriptures under a rugg and say "all of them are false, just because they teach different than sufism do"
But, I can only follow one teaching at the time.

 

[CG Didymus]

I haven’t come across many people of other faith traditions telling me my beliefs are wrong. I wouldn’t take much notice if they did, and I wouldn’t presume to tell Muslims, Hindus, or anyone else that their beliefs are wrong. Because I think there is more that unites us than divides us, and that goes for atheists too - though some of the ones on here are a little strident, shall we say.

To me different religions mostly just represent different ways of arriving at certain universal spiritual truths; all the rest is mostly cultural variation, and so long as you respect my culture, I’ll respect yours. I live in one of the most multicultural cities in the world btw, so this is the norm where I come from.

That sounds good to me. I wish the world had more agnostic lapsed Catholics. Your views fit right in with the Baha'is here. Except that they believe they have the truth... that Baha'u'llah has been sent from God. I have a zillion questions about that claim, but I do agree with them, and you, there is more that unites us than divides us. Since I don't follow any religion, I have no problem with what the Atheists are saying. And, to me, it's the unprovable beliefs and doctrines of religions that contradict and separate us. And one of those beliefs is God. Each religion has a different take on it.

 

[Sheldon]

Almighty God has given us free-will to choose what path we will tread.

I don't believe you.

I often hear people swearing f***ing this and that etc.
Those that don't remember G-d and righteousness are more likely to tend towards evil, whether knowingly or unknowingly.

Rubbish - Hitchens's razor applied.

The bottom line is that G-d ALLOWS evil.

I don't believe this, but were it true its actions would fall short of mere human morality.

He doesn't promote it.

Wrong again, read the bible or koran, and if it created a world where unnecessary suffering was ubiquitous then that's a very idiotic claim.

Mankind has been given sovereignty over the earth.

Humans only evolved a mere 200k years ago, try again.

G-d intervenes when He wills.

So much for free will.

 

[Sheldon]

Almighty God has given us free-will to choose what path we will tread.

G-d intervenes when He wills.

Ho hum...

 

[Sheldon]

I haven’t come across many people of other faith traditions telling me my beliefs are wrong. I wouldn’t take much notice if they did, and I wouldn’t presume to tell Muslims, Hindus, or anyone else that their beliefs are wrong. Because I think there is more that unites us than divides us, and that goes for atheists too - though some of the ones on here are a little strident,

Do you really not see it?

 

[Trailblazer]

Objective is a scale of course, but the more reliable claims are the ones that have the most objective evidence to support them.

That's true, and the Baha'i Faith has the most objective evidence of any religion, hands down.

 

[Sheldon]

That's true, and the Baha'i Faith has the most objective evidence of any religion, hands down.

Is that why not one of its adherents have managed to demonstrate a single shred of objective evidence on here despite being asked repeatedly? You have stated yourself unequivocally that you have none at all?

 

[KWED]

First of all, I found the spiritual teaching to be true (to me)

What spiritual teaching?
In what way was it true?

and it changed my being completely,

What do you mean by "being", and how was it changed?

I found so many aspects of who " I am" that is not me at all.

If they are not you at all, how can they be aspects of you?

I found that ego are illusion that is not my true being.

Can even figure out how to ask you to clarify this.

The effect is that my personal beliefs has only gotten stronger.

So your personal belief led you you realise truths contained in your belief that made your belief stronger.
Sounds like a lot of circular confirmation bias. Can you provide anything more substantial?