Atheists: What would be evidence of God’s existence?

[Sheldon]

There is no struggle.

Indeed.

It's the same as in the incompatibilitist / free-will argument.

Ok...

It's logically unsound. It uses language to purposely confuse.

No it doesn't...

Basically, it asserts that the definition of omnipotence implies that G-d can do the logically absurd.

No it doesn't...

It is a false claim. It is pathetic.

No it's not, your superstitious guff is.

See I can make reel off unevidenced derogations as well, and your imagined deity is powerless to stop me.

Whatever can that mean? If you want to debate that's fine, and I will respect people, but ideas and beliefs don't get respect unless they merit it.

 

[Trailblazer]

I think you are misrepresenting what atheist are saying Usually they speak of the God described in the Bible; and when a Christian says God is all good, but then you can look at some of the things he did according to the bible and his actions are bad/evil, they say he is all wise , but his actions are foolish, they say he is merciful but his actions are petty and cruel, that is where we disagree. When we look at the atrocities he committed against the citizens of Egypt, the cruelty against Job, the unfair treatment of Adam and Eve, the atrocities committed against the Midinites during war we object to claims of him being a good God. We aren’t saying he should do what we want him to do, we are saying if he were good, he wouldn’t be doing half of the stuff the Bible says he does.

However this does not appear to be the God you worship; so most of what we say about God does not apply to you.

The Bible God is the same God I believe in, the one true God, but I do not believe that everything in the Bible is something God actually did. This is obviously a big subject but maybe some excerpts from an article will help.

Introduction

Although Bahá'ís universally share a great respect for the Bible, and acknowledge its status as sacred literature, their individual views about its authoritative status range along the full spectrum of possibilities. At one end there are those who assume the uncritical evangelical or fundamentalist-Christian view that the Bible is wholly and indisputably the word of God. At the other end are Bahá'ís attracted to the liberal, scholarly conclusion that the Bible is no more than a product of complex historical and human forces. Between these extremes is the possibility that the Bible contains the Word of God, but only in a particular sense of the phrase 'Word of God' or in particular texts. I hope to show that a Bahá'í view must lie in this middle area, and can be defined to some degree.

Conclusion

The Bahá'í viewpoint proposed by this essay has been established as follows: The Bible is a reliable source of Divine guidance and salvation, and rightly regarded as a sacred and holy book. However, as a collection of the writings of independent and human authors, it is not necessarily historically accurate. Nor can the words of its writers, although inspired, be strictly defined as 'The Word of God' in the way the original words of Moses and Jesus could have been. Instead there is an area of continuing interest for Bahá'í scholars, possibly involving the creation of new categories for defining authoritative religious literature.

A Baháí View of the Bible

 

[Sheldon]

ignoratio elenchi
a logical fallacy which consists in apparently refuting an opponent while actually disproving something not asserted.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=+Ignoratio+Elenchi

Who said I am trying to refute what you said? That could not be the case since I already conceded to the fact that God could speak from the sky.

I suggest you try to stop the mind-reading because you don't know what I am thinking.
It appears to me that you like throwing out any logical fallacy you can find to see it it will stick in order to try to impress the atheists. Of course I don't really know since I am not a mind-reader.

Why do you think you can dismiss logic, with irrational hand waving?

 

[Sheldon]

I do not suppose it. Atheists are the ones who SAY they want God to do x, y, or z.
Never mind that they do not believe a god exists, that is irrelevant. What they repeatedly SAY is that God could do x, y, or z so God should do x, y, or z.

No they don't, that's a spectacularly stupid claim.

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't. They are trying to draw you in. There are atheists that don't do that, but they don't reply to you over and over.

I would not generalize about that as not all atheists post to me for the same reasons.
I think only a few post to me to draw me in and make me look foolish. Most people have better things to do.
Aside from that what they are consciously aware of that is not all that is going on, and that is what they don't know.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why do you think you can dismiss logic, with irrational hand waving?

What logic did I dismiss? When you make claims it is your job to back them up with an explanation.

 

[Sheldon]

You are agreeing with what you believe is rational and disagreeing with what you believe is irrational

Logic is a method of reasoning that adheres to strict principles of validation, why you are still failing to understand that is puzzling. Nevertheless your assertion is errant nonsense, since what one can choose arbitrarily, as you do relentlessly, to be irrational, but one cannot arbitrarily choose what is rational.

 

[Trailblazer]

No they don't, that's a spectacularly stupid claim.

Are you on all the forums I am on? Some atheists there do exactly what I said they do. Some atheists on this forum also do it although I don't see any doing it right now.

 

[Trailblazer]

Logic is a method of reasoning that adheres to strict principles of validation, why you are still failing to understand that is puzzling. Nevertheless your assertion is errant nonsense, since what one can choose arbitrarily, as you do relentlessly, to be irrational, but one cannot arbitrarily choose what is rational.

That is nothing but a word salad. It is also a red herring since you have nothing substantive for a rational discussion.
One cannot arbitrarily choose what is rational.

 

[Sheldon]

Why do you think you can dismiss logic, with irrational hand waving?

What logic did I dismiss?

So He can also destroy every living thing on earth in one split second.

Logical Fallacy = Ignoratio Elenchi

It appears to me that you like throwing out any logical fallacy you can find to see it it will stick in order to try to impress the atheists.

noun
PHILOSOPHY

1. a logical fallacy which consists in apparently refuting an opponent while actually disproving something not asserted.

When you make claims it is your job to back them up with an explanation.

Physician heal thyself etc ....

quod erat demonstrandum

 

[Sheldon]

Atheism means lack of belief in a God or gods.

Yet you keep making false claims about atheism, sucg as atheists want X Y or Z.

Many atheists believe that an omnipotent God, if it existed, could/would/should do certain things that they want it to do to prove it exists.

Quod erat demonstrandum...

Many atheists talk incessantly about what God could/would/should do if God existed.

No they don't. they question the unevidenced claims of theists. Do you really not see the difference, how bizarre?

These atheists seem to think that since God is omnipotent God should do what they expect that He would do if He existed. NOTHING could be more illogical because an omnipotent God only does what He wants to do, not what humans want Him to do.

Sigh...

In short, God is not a short order cook for atheists or anyone else.

Or an objectively evidenced part of reality. Yet like so many other theists, you sulk when this is pointed out, and when your endless unevidenced and irrational claims are challenged.

 

[Trailblazer]

a logical fallacy which consists in apparently refuting an opponent while actually disproving something not asserted.

The fallacy does not apply because I was not attempting to refute anyone, I was just adding another thing to the list of things an omnipotent God could do.

I have no opponents so I cannot be trying to refute any opponents. What you and your sidekick are doing is called projection, thinking that just because you consider yourselves my opponents I consider myself your opponent.

Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.[1] For example, a person who is habitually rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude. It incorporates blame shifting.
Psychological projection - Wikipedia

 

[Trailblazer]

Yet you keep making false claims about atheism, such as atheists want X Y or Z.

I do not claim anything that is not actually true.
I am not making any claims about atheism, I am making claims about 'some atheists.'
Some atheists do want X, Y, or Z and I know that because they told me so.

 

[Sheldon]

That is nothing but a word salad. It is also a red herring since you have nothing substantive for a rational discussion.
One cannot arbitrarily choose what is rational.

So you ask where you made an irrational claim, it is pointed out to you, yet again, and you respond with "no you are".

Even for your posts that's pretty childish. Here was your irrational claim again, so please do address it, or not, but it was manifestly nothing to do with the post you were responding to.

So He can also destroy every living thing on earth in one split second.

Sulking won't change logic.

 

[Sheldon]

I do not claim anything that is not actually true.

That's a claim, and it is a false claim, clearly.

I am not making any claims about atheism,

Atheism means lack of belief in a God or gods.

Although true, that is a claim about atheism, dear oh dear.

I am making claims about 'some atheists.'

Yes, unevidenced and straw man claims about what atheists must think, despite what those atheists tell you they think. You don't stop at refuting claims, you make claims on behalf of atheists, that atheists tell you they do not believe, and even that are irrational contradictions of atheism, like "atheists believe god wants X Y or Z" etc etc...

Some atheists do want X, Y, or Z and I know that because they told me so.

No they didn't, sadly you just have a very poor grasp of English, sorry but there it is.

 

[Sheldon]

The Bible God is the same God I believe in, the one true God

Oh, you're Jewish then, or are you a Muslim, or are you a Mormon, or a JW? So which one of the 45000 Christian denominations do you belong to?

 

[Trailblazer]

Why do you think it is in my best interest to know your idea of God?

I believe that God created us for a purpose.
I believe it is in everyone's best interests to have knowledge of God since we were created to know God and live our lives according to His teachings and laws. Only by doing so are we able to fulfill the purpose of our existence.

“The beginning of all things is the knowledge of God, and the end of all things is strict observance of whatsoever hath been sent down from the empyrean of the Divine Will that pervadeth all that is in the heavens and all that is on the earth.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 5

Nothing I've said had anything to do with hasty generalization, I call it the way I see it. You might not agree, but that doesn't mean my thoughts were done in haste

Okay, I am sorry if I implied that. Only you know what you have done and how long it took.

 

[Trailblazer]

Even for your posts that's pretty childish. Here was your irrational claim again, so please do address it, or not, but it was manifestly nothing to do with the post you were responding to.

Oh, but it was related to the post I was replying to, since it was yet another thing that the omnipotent God could do.

Sulking won't change logic.

No logical fallacy was committed and I already explained why.

 

[Trailblazer]

That's a claim, and it is a false claim, clearly.

Oh no, it is a true claim, clearly.
How can you say it is not true if you cannot prove it is false?
Are you on all the forums I am on?

No they didn't, sadly you just have a very poor grasp of English, sorry but there it is.

My grasp of the English language is a red herring....
You cannot know what they did because you were not there.

 

[Trailblazer]

Oh, you're Jewish then, or are you a Muslim, or are you a Mormon, or a JW? So which one of the 45000 Christian denominations do you belong to?

No, I am a Baha'i but the one true God is represented in more than one Scripture.