Atheists: What would be evidence of God’s existence?

[Sheldon]

No logical fallacy was committed and I already explained why.

Yes it was by you, and you explained nothing, you just indulged in your usual hand waving.

 

[Kfox]

The Bible God is the same God I believe in, the one true God, but I do not believe that everything in the Bible is something God actually did. This is obviously a big subject but maybe some excerpts from an article will help.

How do you know the God you worship is the same God the Christians worship? Does your God have a son? I'm sure lots of theists claim they worship the one true God; that doesn't mean they are the same God. Is it a matter of accepting the parts of the Bible you agree with, and rejecting the parts you don't like? I know nothing about your religious beliefs; I doubt most Americans know much about your religion either; so when Atheists speak ill of God, they are talking about what is described in the Bible; which likely doesn't apply to you and your beliefs.

 

[Trailblazer]

How do you know the God you worship is the same God the Christians worship?

I know that because I know there is only one true God and the Bible represents the same God I believe in.

Does your God have a son?

I do not believe that God has a biological son, but I believe that Jesus was the Son of God in a figurative sense. The following excerpt from an article explains this:

"Although the Bahá'í writings say nothing about the title 'Son of God (or 'only begotten Son of God, [John 3:16]) there is much that can be said about it from a Bahá'í perspective. 'Son of God is an extremely important title of Jesus for Christians, so much so that in the minds of many Christians 'Son of God' defines the relationship of Jesus with His Father. But often Christians do not think about the symbolic meaning of the title; indeed, many seem unaware that the title is symbolic at all.

What does the term 'Son' mean? Normally, the word has a simple biological meaning, but that meaning is the very one that cannot apply to the relationship between God and Jesus, for God does not have genetic material to confer upon Jesus, nor does God have a body with which He could unite with Mary to produce a son. Christian theology never meant the term to be understood literally; as the above quote from Gregory of Nazianzus emphasizes, God begot Christ 'without passion, of course, and without reference to time, and not in a corporeal manner' ('The Third Theological Oration – On the Son' 161). The Qur'án echoes Gregory's recognition of God's transcendence when it says, 'Allah is only one God. Far is it removed from His transcendent majesty that He should have a son' (Qur'án 5:171).

Consequently, the word 'Son' must be understood in a metaphorical or symbolic sense; the same is true of the verb 'begotten' when applied to Jesus."
Jesus Christ in the Bahá'í Writings

I'm sure lots of theists claim they worship the one true God; that doesn't mean they are the same God. Is it a matter of accepting the parts of the Bible you agree with, and rejecting the parts you don't like?

All Christians do not interpret all of the Bible literally or believe that all of the Bible is inerrant, so this is not unique to the Baha'i Faith..

I know nothing about your religious beliefs; I doubt most Americans know much about your religion either; so when Atheists speak ill of God, they are talking about what is described in the Bible; which likely doesn't apply to you and your beliefs.

I am well aware that when American Atheists speak ill of God they are referring to the Christian God that is represented in the Bible. Sadly, most Americans know little or nothing about my religion.

 

[Truthseeker]

I would not generalize about that as not all atheists post to me for the same reasons.
I think only a few post to me to draw me in and make me look foolish. Most people have better things to do.
Aside from that what they are consciously aware of that is not all that is going on, and that is what they don't know.

The psychologist is coming out in you.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Whatever can that mean?

It means that you have no sound argument, and so resort to satire.
I don't even know why you brought up omnipotence..

Can G-d kill Himself? No? Well, He can't be omnipotent then .. ha.
"Whatever can that mean?"

It's a satire .. yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

[Kfox]

All Christians do not interpret all of the Bible literally or believe that all of the Bible is inerrant, so this is not unique to the Baha'i Faith..

I know Christians that are like that; they accept the part of Christianity that they like, and reject the parts they don't like. Is that how it is with your religion? Again; why do you believe it would be in my best interest to know of your God? Especially considering you know nothing about me.

 

[samtonga43]

Although Bahá'ís universally share a great respect for the Bible, and acknowledge its status as sacred literature...

And you, a Bahai, want to burn it. Or have you changed your mind?

Are you on all the forums I am on? Some atheists there do exactly what I said they do. Some atheists on this forum also do it although I don't see any doing it right now.

One forum at a time, Tb. All these other atheists may be easier to deal with, but you're here, not there.

 

[samtonga43]

I do not claim anything that is not actually true.
I am not making any claims about atheism, I am making claims about 'some atheists.'
Some atheists do want X, Y, or Z and I know that because they told me so.

Why do you think these atheists 'want' X, Y, or Z?

 

[samtonga43]

The fallacy does not apply because I was not attempting to refute anyone, I was just adding another thing to the list of things an omnipotent God could do.

Here's how it went:
Tb: We know that God does not speak from the sky.
Sam: God is all the omnis. Therefore He can do anything.
Tb: So what?
Sam: So he can speak from the sky.
***
Tb: So He can also destroy every living thing on earth in one split second.
Sam pointed out that to connect this with what has already been said is fallacious.

Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.[1] For example, a person who is habitually rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude. It incorporates blame shifting.

Another example would be a person who is
logically fallacious and constantly accuses others of being logically fallacious.

 

[Sheldon]

have no sound argument, and
I don't even know

If you think your sophistry in persistently editing my posts is impressive argument, then I am happy to play along. Since you have abandoned any pretence of debate.

 

[Trailblazer]

I know Christians that are like that; they accept the part of Christianity that they like, and reject the parts they don't like. Is that how it is with your religion?

No, it is not like that. It is like I explained in a previous post. To add to that, below is the Baha'i position on the Bible according to the Guardian of the Baha'i Faith, Shoghi Effendi:

The Bahá'ís believe what is in the Bible to be true in substance. This does not mean that every word recorded in that Book is to be taken literally and treated as the authentic saying of a Prophet.

...The Bahá'ís believe that God's Revelation is under His care and protection and that the essence, or essential elements, of what His Manifestations intended to convey has been recorded and preserved in Their Holy Books. However, as the sayings of the ancient Prophets were written down some time later, we cannot categorically state, as we do in the case of the Writings of Bahá'u'lláh, that the words and phrases attributed to Them are Their exact words
(9 August 1984 to an individual believer)

The Bible: Extracts on the Old and New Testaments

Again; why do you believe it would be in my best interest to know of your God? Especially considering you know nothing about me.

I believe it is in everyone's best interest to know God because I believe we were all created to know and worship God.

“The purpose of God in creating man hath been, and will ever be, to enable him to know his Creator and to attain His Presence. To this most excellent aim, this supreme objective, all the heavenly Books and the divinely-revealed and weighty Scriptures unequivocally bear witness.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 70-71

 

[Trailblazer]

And you, a Bahai, want to burn it. Or have you changed your mind?

Is there a reason you keep bringing that up? I said that a long time ago. That is how I was feeling in the moment but I do not feel that way all the time. Most of the time I think that the Bible should be put on the shelf.

Don't bring the Baha'i Faith into this because this is not how all Baha'is feel. Other Baha'is do not see what I see since they do not post to atheists 24/7. I see the hurt and pain the Bible has caused to atheists and that is why I feel as I do, since I am a compassionate person. The Bible is the primary reason there are atheists. Who would want to believe in a God that did all the stuff that was delineated in the Old Testament?

I also see no need for the Bible anymore; now that humanity has the Revelation of Baha'u'llah.
The Bible is an ancient book that does not apply to the present age and as long as people cling to it they will never recognize that God has spoken again.

One forum at a time, Tb. All these other atheists may be easier to deal with, but you're here, not there.

Actually, the atheists on this forum are a lot easier to deal with except for a few obnoxious ones.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why do you think these atheists 'want' X, Y, or Z?

They want X, Y, or Z because that do not want A, B, or C.

In short, they want to know if God exists but they do not like the evidence for God that exists, Messengers.

 

[Trailblazer]

Tb: So He can also destroy every living thing on earth in one split second.
Sam pointed out that to connect this with what has already been said is fallacious.

I was not connecting it with what was already said. That is a straw man.
Why do you continue to harp on this?

Another example would be a person who is
logically fallacious and constantly accuses others of being logically fallacious.

That is what people here do alright. They project their illogical thinking onto me and then accuse me of committing fallacies.

They don't play these baby games on the other forum I am on. The owner is a hard atheist but he does not allow people to be rude and insulting, no matter what they believe or disbelieve.

“O people of God! I admonish you to observe courtesy, for above all else it is the prince of virtues. Well is it with him who is illumined with the light of courtesy and is attired with the vesture of uprightness. Whoso is endued with courtesy hath indeed attained a sublime station. It is hoped that this Wronged One and everyone else may be enabled to acquire it, hold fast unto it, observe it, and fix our gaze upon it. This is a binding command which hath streamed forth from the Pen of the Most Great Name.”

(Baha’u’llah, Tablet of the World, p. 88.)

 

[Kfox]

I believe it is in everyone's best interest to know God because I believe we were all created to know and worship God.

Why worship? How come just knowing, and loving him isn't good enough; why would a God in need of nothing, feel a need to create people to worship him?

“The purpose of God in creating man hath been, and will ever be, to enable him to know his Creator and to attain His Presence.

The best way for mankind to know God would be for God to communicate with us using a method we are able to understand. A voice from the clouds would be a very good start.

 

[lukethethird]

Why worship? How come just knowing, and loving him isn't good enough; why would a God in need of nothing, feel a need to create people to worship him?

The best way for mankind to know God would be for God to communicate with us using a method we are able to understand. A voice from the clouds would be a very good start.

Perhaps God has issues and has a hard time coping.

 

[Kfox]

Perhaps God has issues and has a hard time coping.

To have such issues and having a hard time coping are imperfections. The person I was discussing with does not believe God has these imperfections.

 

[EtuMalku]

Let's apply a little Occam's Razor to this, shall we?
The most probable reason that The Almighty just doesn't communicate with us in a way everyone would understand and that everyone would know that He is the All and His religion is THE religion . . . is because there is no god.

 

[lukethethird]

To have such issues and having a hard time coping are imperfections. The person I was discussing with does not believe God has these imperfections.

Well, if a god created people to worship him, he is one needy god.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why worship? How come just knowing, and loving him isn't good enough; why would a God in need of nothing, feel a need to create people to worship him?

Knowing and loving God is good enough. To worship God means to love God and we can so that by our actions.
God does not need our worship since God has no needs. God only wants us to worship Him for our own benefit.

The best way for mankind to know God would be for God to communicate with us using a method we are able to understand. A voice from the clouds would be a very good start.

Everyone can understand the Scriptures if they set their minds to it.
I do not think everyone could understand a voice from the clouds but even if they could understand it they would never know it was the Voice of God.