Atheists: What would be evidence of God’s existence?

[Trailblazer]

So how about an apology for your mistake in accusing me of stalking? Are you woman enough?

There was no mistake so there will be no apology.

All that happened? Evidence, please.
What would you expect an apology for.

It is plastered all over this forum, on every thread I have been on that you followed me to.

Me too. My present incorporates your false accusations of stalking. An apology would help.

There will be no apology since I did nothing wrong. You continue to stalk me, you cannot help yourself. Nobody else on this forum behaves like you. That should tell you something, if you ever bothered to look at yourself instead of looking at me.

Why is it that I have been on this forum for over four years and I have 33,900 posts and I have no problem with any other poster except you? Logically speaking, if it was MY problem I would have a problem with other posters besides you, but I do not.

The staff knows that I have no problems with anyone else so you don't have a leg to stand on.

You did not want to, but you did? So, is someone forcing you against your will to malign someone’s character on an open internet forum?

Look at the pot calling the kettle black. That is ALL you have been doing on this forum for one year, maligning my character.

Do you really think that the person whose character you malign by saying that she is a stalker is going to say nothing about your false accusations?
Do you think you can say whatever you like, just because you feel like it?

That is what you have been doing for a full year, saying whatever you like just because you feel like it, and I finally said something about it.

There are consequences for your actions and now you are looking at those consequences right now.

Per your request, I offered to remove any post that referred to stalking but you did not take me up on my offer, you just kept stalking me, so obviously that is what you want to do. You don't want this to end, you want to keep it going. My offer is all in the record so the staff can see it.

Of course you want to drop it now. That is understandable.
I will drop it when you apologize. That too is understandable.

Of course you don't want to drop it now, that is understandable, because then you could not continue maligning my character.

There will be no apology because I did nothing wrong. All I did was stand up to your calumny, finally, after putting up with it for a whole year. If you want to apologize for your calumny I will apologize for what I said about stalking, but I do not expect you to do that.

 

[rational experiences]

Men own the story I want science.

Science doesn't exist it's just stories.

A theme was chosen to make the science claim.

Conversion. Big bang blasting of higher presence converted.

The theme science never owned the substance.

Pretty basic human advice.

Men said hence the converted mass removed from origin body.

Pretty basic.

The advice says so science is just a story first.

A man who said he owned god is your predicament.

Human owner ship.

The planet you stood on gods stone ark. That travelled a cosmic circuit.

To own science you copied.

I take higher substance rock and convert blast it. I get power by machine.

Which places the machine mass in a predicament. How do you stop it from blowing up.

Why you developed a human belief you were greater than beginnings. As you manipulated controlled the conversion.

Is exact you scientist own an acute ego condition in sciences man memories.

There naturally recorded your thesis communicating. You don't hear you just are caused to know yourself.

You weren't any God. O planet mass science.

You however like today pretended you were by owning the thinking control method one higher than even the thought big bang itself.

By method with machine.

About God. Yet you weren't God O planet earth.

You were kept safe in heavens by God motion gas water with space cooling.

You wanted the power of the light to get removed stored in earths crystal mass charge.

So you wanted light itself.

Claiming if it went back to immaculate I would be manifested released I could then return into the eternal where I wanted to go.

Is the actual first man's scientists origins memories.

Today trying to copy the theme out of stone earth storage of energy channelled is sun stone.

The star.

As theme thesis is from returned star sun mass you want channelled mass resource.

Which is virtual a type of moon sized asteroid with ice water to return origins scientists earth changes.

Historic.

Put earth back first into the type of mass the whole origin planet owned as its beginnings. By including data of spatial mass received on earth.

Your idea says infinite but always the thought mass is visionary about gain.

Warned father.

Now if you say your science brother just theme g status science is wrong God theist. You are.

As science is more directly notified by theism.

Science knew science of man owned earths presence atmospheric presence nature's and animals presence with humans. First.

Before theism.

You argue theism of man of god was first. O earth also.

You then claim as a human as human science only that God invented you be human thesis for machines.

As the machine is humans god science practice.

If a machine thesis wasn't involved data some numbers as said by a human did not create you.

In reality earth existed O sealed. It's heavenly body exact natural existed first.

No human in that vision.

Theists claim by spirit purpose presence is instant to confer the balances of our life.

Water...
Created as mass by ice holding in space when mass existed to hold it.

No human present in the God life water thesis.

You overlook the fact Rome did not believe that the wandering star Moses theme falling star correct.

Until the wandering star witnessed as supporting earths heavenly evolving cooling was set alight came in and hit Rome burning it.

Only then was the correlation of evidences that human science of God had sacrificed life was it agreed wrong.

To thesis gaining earths origins returned. By claiming origin the past origin type of earth mass or life beginnings.

When science already studied star mass.

To get earths origins is for man to try to shift mass in space himself and give it to earth. The falling star.

Which by all purposes he wants to pour ice water into burning heavens and put out the light. As his beginning thesis is black hole in space.

Yet he includes churning mass with the thesis particles and gases. As just theorising a hole leaves the hole as just a hole.

His thesis isn't rationally about a hole. His thesis is I want.

He themes if I just theory a line the line wont curve into a O reaction. I'm safe he says. Yet he wants O a reaction.

Earths clouds don't circuit earth as the temperatures ground all vary.

The lines he projects as direct hits were past cosmic star falls which arrives as O the reaction to explode.

Said our holy human father every man's life advised that ever lived as man's over conscious advice.

The only correct man as his life experiences say so.

 

[Trailblazer]

It was valid enough for you in post 5810.

I don't know what you think I thought was valid but looked back at that post 5810, and noticed you never responded to my two questions.

I said: The claims are part of the writings because the claims are in the writings... Part of the writings are claims but not all of the writings are claims. Teachings and laws are not claims.

Do you have a problem with the claims being in the writings? If the claims of Baha'u'llah were not in the writings of Baha'u'llah how would we know what His claims were?

Can you answer those questions? Otherwise I cannot know if you understand what is vital to understanding all of this

Okay, then if the evidence that supports Mr B's claim to be a messenger from God is NOT in the writings, where is this evidence?

Since you've declared that the evidence is not in his writings, you should not need to refer to the writings at all.

I do not NEED to refer to the writings as evidence that supports His claims, but I need to look at the writings in order to know WHAT those claims were (see above).

AGAIN, Baha'u'llah told us what the evidence is that supports His claims in this short paragraph.

“Say: The first and foremost testimony establishing His truth is His own Self. Next to this testimony is His Revelation. For whoso faileth to recognize either the one or the other He hath established the words He hath revealed as proof of His reality and truth. This is, verily, an evidence of His tender mercy unto men. He hath endowed every soul with the capacity to recognize the signs of God. How could He, otherwise, have fulfilled His testimony unto men, if ye be of them that ponder His Cause in their hearts. He will never deal unjustly with any one, neither will He task a soul beyond its power. He, verily, is the Compassionate, the All-Merciful.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 105-106

1. His own Self, who He was, His character (His qualities)

2. His Revelation, what He accomplished (His Mission on earth/ the history of His Cause)

3. His Writings are 'additional evidence' because they show who He was as a person, what He taught about God and other things, and what accomplished on His mission.

Baha'u'llah wrote: For whoso faileth to recognize either the one or the other He hath established the words He hath revealed as proof of His reality and truth.

That means that for those who do not find 1. and 2. sufficient evidence, they should look at 3.

 

[Tiberius]

I don't know what you think I thought was valid but looked back at that post 5810, and noticed you never responded to my two questions.

I said: The claims are part of the writings because the claims are in the writings... Part of the writings are claims but not all of the writings are claims. Teachings and laws are not claims.

Do you have a problem with the claims being in the writings? If the claims of Baha'u'llah were not in the writings of Baha'u'llah how would we know what His claims were?

Can you answer those questions? Otherwise I cannot know if you understand what is vital to understanding all of this

Yes, I have a problem with the claims and the evidence being in the writings. And funnily enough it is the exact same problem you have with my claim and evidence that I can turn into a firebreathing dragon both being in my writings.

I do not NEED to refer to the writings. AGAIN, Baha'u'llah told us what the evidence is that supports His claims.

“Say: The first and foremost testimony establishing His truth is His own Self. Next to this testimony is His Revelation. For whoso faileth to recognize either the one or the other He hath established the words He hath revealed as proof of His reality and truth. This is, verily, an evidence of His tender mercy unto men. He hath endowed every soul with the capacity to recognize the signs of God. How could He, otherwise, have fulfilled His testimony unto men, if ye be of them that ponder His Cause in their hearts. He will never deal unjustly with any one, neither will He task a soul beyond its power. He, verily, is the Compassionate, the All-Merciful.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 105-106

"I do not need to refer to the writings," says Trailblazer, and she then immediately quotes a passage from the writings.

1. His own Self

, who He was, His character (His qualities)

2. His Revelation, what He accomplished (His Mission on earth/ the history of His Cause)

3. His Writings are 'additional evidence' because they show who He was as a person, what He taught about God and other things, and what accomplished on His mission.

Baha'u'llah wrote: For whoso faileth to recognize either the one or the other He hath established the words He hath revealed as proof of His reality and truth.

That means that for those who do not find 1. and 2. sufficient evidence, they should look at 3.

And without the writings, how would we know of 1 and 2?

 

[rational experiences]

I don't know what you think I thought was valid but looked back at that post 5810, and noticed you never responded to my two questions.

I said: The claims are part of the writings because the claims are in the writings... Part of the writings are claims but not all of the writings are claims. Teachings and laws are not claims.

Do you have a problem with the claims being in the writings? If the claims of Baha'u'llah were not in the writings of Baha'u'llah how would we know what His claims were?

Can you answer those questions? Otherwise I cannot know if you understand what is vital to understanding all of this

I do not NEED to refer to the writings as evidence that supports His claims, but I need to look at the writings in order to know WHAT those claims were (see above).

AGAIN, Baha'u'llah told us what the evidence is that supports His claims in this short paragraph.

“Say: The first and foremost testimony establishing His truth is His own Self. Next to this testimony is His Revelation. For whoso faileth to recognize either the one or the other He hath established the words He hath revealed as proof of His reality and truth. This is, verily, an evidence of His tender mercy unto men. He hath endowed every soul with the capacity to recognize the signs of God. How could He, otherwise, have fulfilled His testimony unto men, if ye be of them that ponder His Cause in their hearts. He will never deal unjustly with any one, neither will He task a soul beyond its power. He, verily, is the Compassionate, the All-Merciful.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 105-106

1. His own Self, who He was, His character (His qualities)

2. His Revelation, what He accomplished (His Mission on earth/ the history of His Cause)

3. His Writings are 'additional evidence' because they show who He was as a person, what He taught about God and other things, and what accomplished on His mission.

Baha'u'llah wrote: For whoso faileth to recognize either the one or the other He hath established the words He hath revealed as proof of His reality and truth.

That means that for those who do not find 1. and 2. sufficient evidence, they should look at 3.

In life didn't science of men claim to family if you hear voices you own a mental health condition?

Yes.

If a human asks another human why does a notified changed human brain hear voice.... why didn't he give a real science answer?

Rationally.

The exact reason of the bahuallah status now. Science as scientists arguing not owning an answer themselves. As man's human mind changed.

The reality men of science caused life by origin brain mind changed to be inter related notified conversion. To be re advised when the star falls again.

As science was theorised by men in regards to star fall irradiated man's brain visionary.

So he realised his spiritual man not an evil man invented maths science by visionary brain change.

Why you think self so correct as men.

Was the humans scientists teaching itself.

Hence the theme star fall advice proves men of science never owned the creation of life as a thesis.

It was only ever about machines and a changed irrational human brain mind notified possessed by science meaning. Spiritual yet notified of changed reasoning.

Was the exact human man's life warning.

The only reason.

 

[Trailblazer]

No, one can't.

If it is not verified, one can't tell for sure that one has the truth, can one?

I said: That's right, but one can tell one way or the other without verifying it.

When I said that I was thinking of verifying the claim of Baha'u'llah to have received messages from God. As I have told you before, such a claim can never be verified (proven). All we can do is look at the evidence that indicates that the claim is a true claim. That is the way 'one can tell' without verifying it.

Once again, you completely change your position on a topic.

Does it surprise you that people find you hard to believe when your constant changing of viewpoints suggests that even YOU don't actually believe what you say?

Tiberius said: Again, Five hundred years ago, it was an objective fact that nuclear reactions were taking place within the sun, even if that knowledge couldn't be determined at that time.

Trailblazer said: That's right, and the same applies to God and Baha'u'llah. Even if that knowledge can't be determined at that time, it will be determined after you die and pass to the next world.

How was what I said a change of position? In both instances, knowledge that couldn't be determined at one time was determined at a later time.

It doesn't seem that you've done a very good job then.

I am not the only player in this game. If you fail to catch the ball I threw how is that my fault?

Miracles don't happen, prayer is useless.

Maybe or maybe not, but it certainly cannot hurt to pray. The worst that can happen is that nothing will happen.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, I have a problem with the claims and the evidence being in the writings. And funnily enough it is the exact same problem you have with my claim and evidence that I can turn into a firebreathing dragon both being in my writings.

If the claims were NOT in the writings how could we know what Baha'u'llah claimed?
In other words, where else would we find the claims of Baha'u'llah, posted on a the bulletin board at the corner grocery store??

"I do not need to refer to the writings," says Trailblazer, and she then immediately quotes a passage from the writings.

I do have to refer to the writings in order to know what Baha'u'llah wrote about the evidence that supports His claims. How else could I know what Baha'u'llah offered as evidence?

Part of the evidence (3.) is the words He hath revealed as proof of His reality and truth.
That is not the claims that are in the writings, that is everything else that is in the writings.

And without the writings, how would we know of 1 and 2?

Other books that were written by other people. For example:

God Passes By (1844-1944)
The Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh, Volumes 1-4, which cover the 40 years of His Mission, from 1853-1892.

 

[Tiberius]

I said: That's right, but one can tell one way or the other without verifying it.

Being able to tell one way or the other is pretty much the definition of "verify."

When I said that I was thinking of verifying the claim of Baha'u'llah to have received messages from God. As I have told you before, such a claim can never be verified (proven). All we can do is look at the evidence that indicates that the claim is a true claim. That is the way 'one can tell' without verifying it.

That is NOT being able to tell one way or the other. At best, that only suggests one option over another, it does not show that the chosen option is the correct one.

Tiberius said: Again, Five hundred years ago, it was an objective fact that nuclear reactions were taking place within the sun, even if that knowledge couldn't be determined at that time.

Trailblazer said: That's right, and the same applies to God and Baha'u'llah. Even if that knowledge can't be determined at that time, it will be determined after you die and pass to the next world.

How was what I said a change of position? In both instances, knowledge that couldn't be determined at one time was determined at a later time.

So you no longer believe that something can't be a fact until it can be demonstrated?

I am not the only player in this game. If you fail to catch the ball I threw how is that my fault?

I don't see anyone else who has changed their minds and said, "You know, maybe TB has a point, I think I'll become a Bahai now."

So it seems we are playing a game in which you throw the ball wanting it to be caught. No one has caught it. Either you're a bad thrower, or no one else is interested in playing.

Maybe or maybe not, but it certainly cannot hurt to pray. The worst that can happen is that nothing will happen.

And you've wasted time praying that could have been put to better use.

 

[Trailblazer]

Being able to tell one way or the other is pretty much the definition of "verify."

True, but as I said before verification is not the ONLY way to know one way or another.

That is NOT being able to tell one way or the other. At best, that only suggests one option over another, it does not show that the chosen option is the correct one.

You want a guarantee but you are not going to get one.
I guarantee that if you choose to believe that Baha'u'llah was a Messenger of God, you will be making the right decision (that is from my perspective, but you have to make your own decision )

So you no longer believe that something can't be a fact until it can be demonstrated?

I always believed that. It cannot be considered a fact until it can be demonstrated. Before it is demonstrated it is only a belief (like you believed you parked your car in a certain place, as you said on another thread)

fact
something that is known to have happened or to exist, especially something for which proof exists, or about which there is information:
fact

I don't see anyone else who has changed their minds and said, "You know, maybe TB has a point, I think I'll become a Bahai now."

So it seems we are playing a game in which you throw the ball wanting it to be caught. No one has caught it. Either you're a bad thrower, or no one else is interested in playing.

No, there are plenty of people playing this game....
Either I am a bad thrower or everyone else is a poor catcher....
But you cannot say I am any worse of a thrower than any other Baha'i since nobody has caught the ball they pitched either.

Matthew 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

There are reasons why few people catch the ball.

If you use logic and reason you would realize that few people find the narrow gate and even fewer people enter through it because it is narrow, so it is difficult to get through...

It is difficult to get through because one has to be willing to give up all their preconceived ideas, have an open mind, and think for themselves. Most people do not embark upon such a journey. They go through the wide gate, the easy one to get through – their own religious tradition or their own preconceived ideas about God or no god. They follow that broad road that is easiest for them to travel.... and that is why the NEW religion is always rejected by most people for a very long time after it has been revealed.

And you've wasted time praying that could have been put to better use.

No worries since I am a double-tasker. I only pray when I go out for a walk or when I am riding my bike, and I would not be doing anything else anyway, except listening to music on my little radio.

I am going out for a walk right now and I will be praying for the whole 90 minutes that I am walking.
And I will throw in an extra prayer for a purple shirt so we can end the red shirt/blue shirt discussion.

 

[ppp]

True, but as I said before verification is not the ONLY way to know one way or another.

The definition of verify is pretty much equivalent to being able to know one way or the other.

 

[Trailblazer]

The definition of verify is pretty much equivalent to being able to know one way or the other.

That's true, but verification is not the ONLY way to know one way or another.

 

[rational experiences]

True, but as I said before verification is not the ONLY way to know one way or another.

You want a guarantee but you are not going to get one.
I guarantee that if you choose to believe that Baha'u'llah was a Messenger of God, you will be making the right decision (that is from my perspective, but you have to make your own decision )

I always believed that. It cannot be considered a fact until it can be demonstrated. Before it is demonstrated it is only a belief (like you believed you parked your car in a certain place, as you said on another thread)

fact
something that is known to have happened or to exist, especially something for which proof exists, or about which there is information:
fact

No, there are plenty of people playing this game....
Either I am a bad thrower or everyone else is a poor catcher....
But you cannot say I am any worse of a thrower than any other Baha'i since nobody has caught the ball they pitched either.

Matthew 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

There are reasons why few people catch the ball.

If you use logic and reason you would realize that few people find the narrow gate and even fewer people enter through it because it is narrow, so it is difficult to get through...

It is difficult to get through because one has to be willing to give up all their preconceived ideas, have an open mind, and think for themselves. Most people do not embark upon such a journey. They go through the wide gate, the easy one to get through – their own religious tradition or their own preconceived ideas about God or no god. They follow that broad road that is easiest for them to travel.... and that is why the NEW religion is always rejected by most people for a very long time after it has been revealed.

No worries since I am a double-tasker. I only pray when I go out for a walk or when I am riding my bike, and I would not be doing anything else anyway, except listening to music on my little radio.

I am going out for a walk right now and I will be praying for the whole 90 minutes that I am walking.
And I will throw in an extra prayer for a purple shirt so we can end the red shirt/blue shirt discussion.

A human man said O God owned a huge erection ∆.

Mountain law gods path of inheritor Christ. A tor meaning an opened channel path of spirit gas moving.

Man's penis erection the path owner of human man life is quite small.

Said to belittle your huge Scientists ego.

Not many men get to own it anymore as O hu man mother owned human being human first as a cell.

A large conscious man identity now gone. Why you think act and behave like women. And every other mind disturbed behaviour.

So don't sacrifice man humans life as he isn't christ mass that you daily destroy in nuclear convert ING..gas spirit. Of gods earth mass he warned.

Warning every review of man's theisms and causes. Chosen behaviour keeps repeating. Reads warnings copies it instead.

Warned the medical scientist.

 

[ppp]

That's true, but verification is not the ONLY way to know one way or another.

You are agreeing that they are equivalent, and then saying that they are not equivalent. Go sort yourself. I am going to sleep.

 

[Trailblazer]

You are agreeing that they are equivalent, and then saying that they are not equivalent. Go sort yourself. I am going to sleep.

Agreeing that what is equivalent to what? I am going to exercise, eat dinner and go to bed,

 

[rational experiences]

The medical scientists were hated by the occult scientist as they proved you wrong

Ego of men is naturally involved when sharing advice hence its motivated however or when expressed by word use.

Men didn't like men. Men have and own sarcasm in bible retorts.

A path of life man says nature is gardens oxygenation. Biology lifes owned only. Oxygen input hence science can't use it in any thesis as extra.

Nature billions of nature types no path to follow.

Animals millions of types no path to.follow.

Same as men who've lived experienced DNA human self by billions of variations of as over conscious about one human self.

We teach self presence is a holy life no theism.

Theism done by national recorded loss of DNA as the cloud path animal of around earth... nature.... human life ...
Attacked not a liFe path. Is its opposition.

Brain defects of the theist. Communicated visions back.

Satan hot Ch gas said science became cooled gas. No man is God.

Satan to Jesus cooled...but was no longer the Christ. Was only a cooled effect with no science status.

Lucky said science life is still alive.

Once science said I preach Satan is holy no man is God.

Was told to change his ideas.

Reason if humans knew science was Satanism it would not be allowed.

So a code science NASA no SATAN by code use the letter T.

Cloud mass is Satan's God.

Pretty basic human advice.

Father said you seem to forget science isn't just one mans thesis.

National science Mayan practiced in America at the same time Egyptian pyramid had.... as both men heard old science message. Brain changed variant DNA owners.

Old science message a heavens recording only also not any humans DNA.

The state recorded gave man after ice age mind advice for science as heard in old recordings of a speaking voice.

Why you own no trace like you believed to science strings via biology the hu man or star house nation who invented science.

So when you exact your code....end of life on earth as lights removal to darkness is first. Times end.

As time is stated by burning light.

Is exact human owned human warned human copying behaviours about humans.

 

[Tiberius]

If the claims were NOT in the writings how could we know what Baha'u'llah claimed?
In other words, where else would we find the claims of Baha'u'llah, posted on a the bulletin board at the corner grocery store??

We can know what George Washington did and said without having to rely on sources Washington himself made. How do you think we can do that?

I do have to refer to the writings in order to know what Baha'u'llah wrote about the evidence that supports His claims. How else could I know what Baha'u'llah offered as evidence?

Part of the evidence (3.) is the words He hath revealed as proof of His reality and truth.
That is not the claims that are in the writings, that is everything else that is in the writings.

And the same applies to the post wherein I claimed and gave evidence that I can turn into a fire breathing dragon.

Other books that were written by other people. For example:

God Passes By (1844-1944)
The Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh, Volumes 1-4, which cover the 40 years of His Mission, from 1853-1892.

Including direct family members and followers.

I would find a book supporting Christianity to be a lot more persuasive if it was written by someone who was NOT a Christian than if it had been written by a Christian. The same applies here. If you give me sources written by the son and grandson of Mr B, and other people who have a vested interest in presenting Baha'i in a favorable light, I can't conclude that I'm getting a viewpoint free from bias.

 

[Tiberius]

True, but as I said before verification is not the ONLY way to know one way or another.

I'm still waiting for you to propose an alternative method that can allow us to KNOW FOR A FACT.

You want a guarantee but you are not going to get one.
I guarantee that if you choose to believe that Baha'u'llah was a Messenger of God, you will be making the right decision (that is from my perspective, but you have to make your own decision )

That statement is utterly useless.

Star Trek Fan: I guarantee that if you choose to believe that Star Trek is better than Star Wars, you will be making the right decision (that is from my perspective, but you have to make your own decision )

Star Wars Fan: I guarantee that if you choose to believe that Star Wars is better than Star Trek, you will be making the right decision (that is from my perspective, but you have to make your own decision )

All this is saying is, "If you choose to believe the same things as me, I'll agree with you."

I always believed that. It cannot be considered a fact until it can be demonstrated. Before it is demonstrated it is only a belief (like you believed you parked your car in a certain place, as you said on another thread)

fact
something that is known to have happened or to exist, especially something for which proof exists, or about which there is information:
fact

So in the year 1066, it was NOT a fact that Pluto existed?

No, there are plenty of people playing this game....
Either I am a bad thrower or everyone else is a poor catcher....

Yeah, right. Everyone else has the exact same problem, despite them having nothing to do with each other...

There are reasons why few people catch the ball.

If you use logic and reason you would realize that few people find the narrow gate and even fewer people enter through it because it is narrow, so it is difficult to get through...

Sounds like whoever designed it did a lousy job.

"Yes, I want to make sure as many people as possible reach the TRUE CONCLUSION about religion, so I'm going to make the truth really hard to find..."

It is difficult to get through because one has to be willing to give up all their preconceived ideas, have an open mind, and think for themselves. Most people do not embark upon such a journey. They go through the wide gate, the easy one to get through – their own religious tradition or their own preconceived ideas about God or no god. They follow that broad road that is easiest for them to travel.... and that is why the NEW religion is always rejected by most people for a very long time after it has been revealed.

And that is why you reject my claim that I can turn into a firebreathing dragon, despite the fact that I have presented evidence to support my claim.

That's okay. I'm sure you'll discover the truth one day.

No worries since I am a double-tasker. I only pray when I go out for a walk or when I am riding my bike, and I would not be doing anything else anyway, except listening to music on my little radio.

I am going out for a walk right now and I will be praying for the whole 90 minutes that I am walking.
And I will throw in an extra prayer for a purple shirt so we can end the red shirt/blue shirt discussion.

How about you pray for God to reveal to you what colour shirt I will wear? Then we can see how good he really is.

 

[samtonga43]

#5881

ME: So how about an apology for your mistake in accusing me of stalking? Are you woman enough?
TB: There was no mistake so there will be no apology.

OK. Now, this is important, and I want to get your position absolutely clear…
1. You are accusing me of being a stalker.
2. You have, as yet, no evidence to support this accusation.
3. You will not apologize for making this accusation.
4. You also accuse me of making false and defamatory statements about you in order to damage your reputation?
5. You have, as yet, produced no evidence to support this accusation.

If you still agree with the five points above, please let me know.

Thank you.

 

[Trailblazer]

We can know what George Washington did and said without having to rely on sources Washington himself made. How do you think we can do that?

We can know what Baha'u'llah did and said without having to rely on sources Baha'u'llah himself made. How do you think we can do that?

Including direct family members and followers.

I would find a book supporting Christianity to be a lot more persuasive if it was written by someone who was NOT a Christian than if it had been written by a Christian. The same applies here. If you give me sources written by the son and grandson of Mr B, and other people who have a vested interest in presenting Baha'i in a favorable light, I can't conclude that I'm getting a viewpoint free from bias.

There is no accurate full history of the Baha'i Faith written by non-Baha'is because it was the early Baha'is ho chronicled the Baha'i history. Why would anyone else be interested in chronicling that history? However, you can verify that what the Baha'is wrote is accurate by consulting impartial sources, such as the Encyclopedia.

Baha’i Faith | History, Practices, & Facts

If you consult sources written my Christians or Muslims, who are against the Baha'i Faith you are going to get biased information because they have a vested interest in presenting Baha'i in a unfavorable light.

 

[Trailblazer]

I'm still waiting for you to propose an alternative method that can allow us to KNOW FOR A FACT.

And you will be waiting for that till hell freezes over. NO RELIGION CAN BE PROVEN AS A FACT.

That statement is utterly useless.

All this is saying is, "If you choose to believe the same things as me, I'll agree with you."

It was not intended to be serious, thus the

So in the year 1066, it was NOT a fact that Pluto existed?

It was not a fact that Pluto existed in 1066 since it was not known until 1930 AD.

fact
something that is known to have happened or to exist, especially something for which proof exists, or about which there is information:
fact

However, in reality Pluto did exist, even though it was not a fact.

Yeah, right. Everyone else has the exact same problem, despite them having nothing to do with each other...

That's right, everyone has the same exact problem recognizing Baha'u'llah because narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. (Matthew 7:13-14)

Sounds like whoever designed it did a lousy job.

"Yes, I want to make sure as many people as possible reach the TRUE CONCLUSION about religion, so I'm going to make the truth really hard to find..."

Where did you get the idea God wants to make sure 'as many people as possible' reach the true conclusion about the religion? God makes it difficult in order to separate the wheat from the chaff. I guess you never read your Bible, where Jesus talked about separating the wheat from the chaff.

The Parable of the Weeds
Matthew 13:29 "But he said, 'No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn."'"

What Baha’u’llah wrote below confirms what Jesus said above. God separates the sincere seekers (wheat) from the wayward and perverse (chaff).

"He Who is the Day Spring of Truth is, no doubt, fully capable of rescuing from such remoteness wayward souls and of causing them to draw nigh unto His court and attain His Presence. “If God had pleased He had surely made all men one people.” His purpose, however, is to enable the pure in spirit and the detached in heart to ascend, by virtue of their own innate powers, unto the shores of the Most Great Ocean, that thereby they who seek the Beauty of the All-Glorious may be distinguished and separated from the wayward and perverse. Thus hath it been ordained by the all-glorious and resplendent Pen…" Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 71

No worries since I am a double-tasker. I only pray when I go out for a walk or when I am riding my bike, and I would not be doing anything else anyway, except listening to music on my little radio.

How about you pray for God to reveal to you what colour shirt I will wear? Then we can see how good he really is.