Atheists: What would be evidence of God’s existence?

[Trailblazer]

The only way that He knows the future and we aren't predestined to follow that one future, is if there were an infinite of futures (or universes) for every choice we can make, and every possibility that can be played out. So, logically that would only lead me to think you believe in the multiverse theory?

We will do what God knows we will do simply because God knows what we will do.
We will not do it because we were predestined to do it.
We will do it because we chose to do it.

 

[Trailblazer]

You claim it's false, but you've been unable to show that.

If you claim it's false for no reason, I'll reject your claim for no reason. Consider it rejected.

I have shown it, repeatedly.
I am sorry you do not understand it. Only God knows why.

 

[rational experiences]

If you say and quote to any human man adult. You know human men agreed to the terms of human sciences. As humans.

Some of you seem to overlook your human agreement first.

If a human is born a baby. Then you were.

So two humans neither as your life create a baby. The human a human.

Which is the same for every human even a man named Jesus. Except his message said not just by human sex did my life exist. But only by atmospheric remassing cooling returned had given him his human life back in human DNA by gods body of mass previous sacrificed heavens. Had returned historic over a very long time period.

Human mother's womb ovah ova ovary had healed. Gods term holy water holy oxygenated life water healed ovary.

A human only teaching.

So if a man says today I give you a new human aware teaching he did.

My human father also just a man like you all owned and records memory saw my human mother come out of the eternal spirit after he had.

So he was her human witness.

As humans just humans as humans.

We are all humans as humans about humans a human teacher about life changes.

Pretty basic don't self idolise just a human. Ignored by human's who suffered brain and physical body ecstacy.

Yet men prove they self idolise their man human brother just because human men invented all terms scientific thesis.

 

[Trailblazer]

That's all you've been able to provide.

That is patently FALSE. I have provided both the claims and the evidence that supports the claims, repeatedly.

And what evidence is this? I've asked you before what a True Messenger From God (TM) would have that can't possibly be had by someone who wasn't a True Messenger, but you have been unable to give a good answer.

No answer that was good enough for you. That is not my problem.

Yes, if God foresaw A, then I WILL choose A, and I WILL NOT choose B, or C, or D.

Yes, if God foresaw B, then you WILL choose B, and you WILL NOT choose A, or C, or D.
Yes, if God foresaw C then you WILL choose C, and you WILL NOT choose A, or B, or D.
Yes, if God foresaw D, then you WILL choose D, and you WILL NOT choose A, or B, or C.

YOU WILL CHOOSE WHICH ONE OF THOSE YOU WANT TO CHOOSE, A, B, D, or D, and whatever you choose will be what God foresaw.

However, what God foresaw does not affect what you will choose IN ANY WAY.

“Every act ye meditate is as clear to Him as is that act when already accomplished. There is none other God besides Him. His is all creation and its empire. All stands revealed before Him; all is recorded in His holy and hidden Tablets. This fore-knowledge of God, however, should not be regarded as having caused the actions of men, just as your own previous knowledge that a certain event is to occur, or your desire that it should happen, is not and can never be the reason for its occurrence.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 150

Question.—If God has knowledge of an action which will be performed by someone, and it has been written on the Tablet of Fate, is it possible to resist it?

Answer.—The foreknowledge of a thing is not the cause of its realization; for the essential knowledge of God surrounds, in the same way, the realities of things, before as well as after their existence, and it does not become the cause of their existence. It is a perfection of God..... Some Answered Questions, p. 138

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

We will do what God knows we will do simply because God knows what we will do.

Does this place God outside of the universe? I'm just trying to learn your perceptions.

As a 'Deist' to simplify, I'm of the mindset that Spirit is All and it cannot be added to subtracted from or divided. I do not propose to put traits upon Spirit such as consciousness or omnipotence or other human conceptions. Spirit is¹ inconceivable, and therefore useless to involve into the conversation when making observations and claims regarding the scientific method.

¹corrected from 'in'.

 

[Trailblazer]

Does this place God outside of the universe? I'm just trying to learn your perceptions.

No, I don't think that God is outside the universe. Is anything outside the universe?

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

No, I don't think that God is outside the universe. Is anything outside the universe?

Something I cannot perceive in my imagination. The thing that brings me to the highest levels of disconcerted wonder: Nothing, 'no thing', nothingness.

 

[Tiberius]

We will do what God knows we will do simply because God knows what we will do.
We will not do it because we were predestined to do it.
We will do it because we chose to do it.

If God has foreseen it, we can not take any other path.

 

[Tiberius]

I have shown it, repeatedly.
I am sorry you do not understand it. Only God knows why.

You have not shown it repeatedly. You have ASSERTED it repeatedly, but you have never provided evidence for it.

 

[Tiberius]

That is patently FALSE. I have provided both the claims and the evidence that supports the claims, repeatedly.

And I've presented equally valid evidence that I can turn into a fire breathing dragon, yet for some reason you don't believe it.

No answer that was good enough for you. That is not my problem.

It's not my problem you have lousy answers.

Yes, if God foresaw B, then you WILL choose B, and you WILL NOT choose A, or C, or D.
Yes, if God foresaw C then you WILL choose C, and you WILL NOT choose A, or B, or D.
Yes, if God foresaw D, then you WILL choose D, and you WILL NOT choose A, or B, or C.

YOU WILL CHOOSE WHICH ONE OF THOSE YOU WANT TO CHOOSE, A, B, D, or D, and whatever you choose will be what God foresaw.

However, what God foresaw does not affect what you will choose IN ANY WAY.

So you are suggesting that the effect (God knowing what I will choose) can PRECEED the cause (me making the choice)?

“Every act ye meditate is as clear to Him as is that act when already accomplished. There is none other God besides Him. His is all creation and its empire. All stands revealed before Him; all is recorded in His holy and hidden Tablets. This fore-knowledge of God, however, should not be regarded as having caused the actions of men, just as your own previous knowledge that a certain event is to occur, or your desire that it should happen, is not and can never be the reason for its occurrence.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 150

Question.—If God has knowledge of an action which will be performed by someone, and it has been written on the Tablet of Fate, is it possible to resist it?

Answer.—The foreknowledge of a thing is not the cause of its realization; for the essential knowledge of God surrounds, in the same way, the realities of things, before as well as after their existence, and it does not become the cause of their existence. It is a perfection of God..... Some Answered Questions, p. 138

How many times do I have to tell you that THIS IS NOT THE POSITION I HOLD?

 

[Trailblazer]

If God has foreseen it, we can not take any other path.

If God has foreseen it, we will not take any other path because God's foreknowledge is perfect.
We can choose to take any path we want to take and whatever that path is will be the path God has always known we would take.

 

[Trailblazer]

So you are suggesting that the effect (God knowing what I will choose) can PRECEED the cause (me making the choice)?

God knowing what you will choose always precedes what you will choose because God has ALWAYS KNOWN what you will choose.

How many times do I have to tell you that THIS IS NOT THE POSITION I HOLD?

I did not say this it is the position YOU HOLD.
That is the position of the Baha'i Faith.
Everything I post is not about YOUR position.

 

[Tiberius]

If God has foreseen it, we will not take any other path because God's foreknowledge is perfect.
We can choose to take any path we want to take and whatever that path is will be the path God has always known we would take.

Listen to yourself.

"...we will not take any other path..."

"We can choose to take any path we want to take..."

Your cognitive dissonance is amazing.

 

[Tiberius]

God knowing what you will choose always precedes what you will choose because God has ALWAYS KNOWN what you will choose.

So how can the outcome of a choice preceed the choice?

I did not say this it is the position YOU HOLD.
That is the position of the Baha'i Faith.
Everything I post is not about YOUR position.

You are lying. You claimed that I hold this position in THIS post.

 

[Trailblazer]

Listen to yourself.

"...we will not take any other path..."

"We can choose to take any path we want to take..."

Your cognitive dissonance is amazing.

There is no cognitive dissonance, just rationality.

 

[Trailblazer]

So how can the outcome of a choice preceed the choice?

I did not say that the outcome of your choice precedes your choice.

I said: God knowing what you will choose always precedes what you will choose because God has ALWAYS KNOWN what you will choose.

You are lying. You claimed that I hold this position in THIS post.

I do not deny what I said yesterday but I do not CARE what I said yesterday.
Grow up and get over it. Stop living in the past.
I should report you for calling me a liar, twice.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

I should report you for calling me a liar, twice.

I'd say ignore him if he's getting that much of a rise out of you. At least for a few days or week.

 

[Tiberius]

There is no cognitive dissonance, just rationality.

I have never seen any rationality from you. Just intellectual dishonest, logical fallacies, and a position that you change on a whim to get out of having to deal with questions you can't answer.

As a representative of the Baha'i faith, you are making all the other Bahai's look bad.

 

[Tiberius]

I did not say that the outcome of your choice precedes your choice.

I said: God knowing what you will choose always precedes what you will choose because God has ALWAYS KNOWN what you will choose.

God knowing what I will choose IS the outcome of my choice.

I do not deny what I said yesterday but I do not CARE what I said yesterday.
Grow up and get over it. Stop living in the past.
I should report you for calling me a liar, twice.

I wonder if the staff here will share the same view as you. "Trailblazer said it, but that was yesterday, so we can't take that into account."

 

[muhammad_isa]

So how can the outcome of a choice preceed the choice?

I've explained that to you, but just dismiss it.
Why not just say that you don't believe that God can know what we will choose of our own free-will .. because that is what it boils down to.

Both you and I believe that our choices determine the future.
..but you insist on claiming that a known future means they don't.
You claim it as the only rational position. That is your opinion.

Such a "rational" argument cannot be accepted in court, so why bother!?