Atheists: What would be evidence of God’s existence?

[F1fan]

Atheists aim to dismiss logical proofs. In fact I sometimes wonder why they cannot understand logic.

Give us some examples. I want to see if you are correct or just bluffing.

 

[Truthseeker]

Yet I get your point. BTW, which verse in the Quran are you referring to?

Not one in particular, but I just found one:

Will they not look forth on the realms of the Heaven and of the Earth, and on all things which God hath made, to see whether haply their end be not drawing on? And in what other book will they believe who reject the Koran?
Muhammad, "The Qur'an", 7.186

Here's some more:

Verily from the Lord of the Worlds hath this Book come down;
Muhammad, "The Qur'an", 26.194

HA. MIM. This Book is sent down from God, the Mighty, the Wise!
Muhammad, "The Qur'an", 45.3

HA. MIM. The Revelation (sending down) of this Book is from the Mighty, the Wise!
Muhammad, "The Qur'an", 46.3

HA. MIM. A Revelation from the Compassionate, the Merciful!
Muhammad, "The Qur'an", 41.3
A Book whose verses (signs) are MADE PLAIN — an Arabic Koran, for men of knowledge;
Muhammad, "The Qur'an", 41.4

 

[QuestioningMind]

God cannot come down to earth to verify that His Messenger is actually a Messenger, and that is why we humans are entrusted with verifying that for ourselves. We can know if we go through the verification process, which involves investigating the claims of the Messenger and looking at the evidence that He provided to back up His claims. Nobody can ever verify that God spoke to a Messenger, only the Messenger can know that, and that is why we have to check out the Messenger and determine if we believe He was telling the truth.

Religious truths cannot be verified the same way we can verify scientific truths because we cannot perform tests on God. We can subject the Messengers to tests, but they are not the same kind of tests that would be used to prove a scientific theory is true.

Something is scientifically verifiable if it can be tested and proven to be true. Verifiable comes from the verb verify, "authenticate" or "prove," from the Old French verifier, "find out the truth about." The Latin root is verus, or "true." Definitions of verifiable.

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/verifiable

But why would you expect verifiable evidence of God's existence, just because you want it? That is not a good enough reason for God to provide it, in fact it is not a reason at all. Have you ever considered the possibility that God does not WANT to be verified like a scientific theory? So even if God could provide verifiable evidence in some way we are not privy to that does not mean that God would or should provide it - just because atheists require it.

If you understood what God is you would quickly realize why God can never be verified as per the definition below.

In a courtroom, verifiable evidence is backed up with specific proof. If you have a birth certificate, your exact time and place of birth is verifiable — in other words, you can prove where and when you were born. Something is scientifically verifiable if it can be tested and proven to be true.

verifiable - Dictionary Definition : Vocabulary.com

But why would you expect verifiable evidence of God's existence, just because you want it? That is not a good enough reason for God to provide it, in fact it is not a reason at all. Have you ever considered the possibility that God does not WANT to be verified like a scientific theory?

If you say so. But since your creator god created me with a brain that requires verifiable evidence in order to have genuine belief then clearly your creator god created me with the intention that I never believe in it. It's rather odd that you asked me what evidence I would need to believe in god and then tell me that the god you believe in doesn't have any desire for me to believe in it.

If you understood what God is you would quickly realize why God can never be verified as per the definition below.

How can I possibly understand what god is when no one can provide verifiable evidence that this god being even exists?

 

[firedragon]

Not one in particular, but I just found one:

Will they not look forth on the realms of the Heaven and of the Earth, and on all things which God hath made, to see whether haply their end be not drawing on? And in what other book will they believe who reject the Koran?
Muhammad, "The Qur'an", 7.186

Here's some more:

Verily from the Lord of the Worlds hath this Book come down;
Muhammad, "The Qur'an", 26.194

HA. MIM. This Book is sent down from God, the Mighty, the Wise!
Muhammad, "The Qur'an", 45.3

HA. MIM. The Revelation (sending down) of this Book is from the Mighty, the Wise!
Muhammad, "The Qur'an", 46.3

HA. MIM. A Revelation from the Compassionate, the Merciful!
Muhammad, "The Qur'an", 41.3
A Book whose verses (signs) are MADE PLAIN — an Arabic Koran, for men of knowledge;
Muhammad, "The Qur'an", 41.4

I was specifically looking for this.

"Your own Qur'an says that the Qur'an itself is the greatest proof of the validity of the Message from God."

But that's fine. Thanks for those verses. Different translation I dont think I have ever seen.

 

[firedragon]

How can I possibly understand what god is when no one can provide verifiable evidence that this god being even exists?

What is "evidence" for you? What is your epistemology?

 

[Trailblazer]

I understand I understand. I apologise for intruding in your conversation.

No problem, it was not an intrusion.

 

[Jimmy]

Whenever I say that Messengers of God are the evidence of God’s existence atheists say “that’s not evidence.”

So if “that’s not evidence” what would be evidence of God’s existence?

If God existed, where would we get the evidence? How would we get it?

As I see it there are only three possibilities:

1. God exists and there is evidence so we should look for the evidence.
2. God exists but there is no evidence so there is nothing to look for.
3. God does not exist and that is why there is no evidence.

I believe (1) God exists and there is evidence, because if there was no evidence God could not hold humans accountable for believing in Him. Why would God expect us to believe He exists and provide no evidence? That would be unfair as well as unreasonable.

Option 4
God exists and he hid evidence because lord knows what humans would do with it

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you ever try to see it from their side?

Practically every minute of every hour of every day, but like @firedragon I think that atheists are illogical and I cannot work with illogic, it drives me nuts.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Practically every minute of every hour of every day, but like @firedragon I think that atheists are illogical and I cannot work with illogic, it drives me nuts.

Why would it be illogical to not have a belief in a God? And should those of us who believe In a God think that those who can not or do not understand the topic of God are less logical than ourselves?

 

[Trailblazer]

If you say so. But since your creator god created me with a brain that requires verifiable evidence in order to have genuine belief then clearly your creator god created me with the intention that I never believe in it.

I don't think that God created you that way. Rather you are that way because of a combination of factors that determine your personality, factors such as childhood upbringing, heredity, education, adult experiences, and life circumstances. You will probably continue thinking the way you do about needing verifiable evidence unless something happens that changes the way you presently think. By learning new things people can change the way they think but it is not easy and it requires motivation and a desire to change.

It's rather odd that you asked me what evidence I would need to believe in god and then tell me that the god you believe in doesn't have any desire for me to believe in it.

God does have a desire for you to believe in Him, but on His terms, which means accepting the evidence that He provides. God does not provide verifiable evidence because God does not want to be verified they way you require that He be verified. The process of verification requires verifying that a Messenger is genuine.

How can I possibly understand what god is when no one can provide verifiable evidence that this god being even exists?

You are putting the cart before the horse. You cannot understand what God is except from what the Messenger of God reveals about God as He is our only source of information about God and our only connection to God.

 

[ChristineM]

God does know and God does what was best for all of humanity.

That is your belief, not mine

 

[ChristineM]

A god would also be capable of hiding said evidence which is probably wiser because humans would exploit/destroy or use it it for god knows what

And your evidence of your gods duplicity is that there is no evidence. Do you see the flaw in the reasoning in this?

 

[Trailblazer]

Why would it be illogical to not have a belief in a God? And should those of us who believe In a God think that those who can not or do not understand the topic of God are less logical than ourselves?

I was not implying that atheists are illogical because they don't believe in God. I was only referring to the evidence for God's existence. I think that atheists are illogical because they expect to have verifiable evidence that God exists. How could God ever be verified to exist? Or they want empirical evidence, but nobody has ever seen God. Do you see the problem?

 

[Trailblazer]

That is your belief, not mine

But of course.

 

[ChristineM]

How could God ever be verified to exist?

You apper to put a lot of limits on your gods abilities....

 

[Spirit of Light]

I was not implying that atheists are illogical because they don't believe in God. I was only referring to the evidence for God's existence. I think that atheists are illogical because they expect to have verifiable evidence that God exists. How could God ever be verified to exist?

If God did come in person or in other ways show atheists enough evidence that God actually exists.
So their questions is valid since they do not believe in other then what they can see, touch, hear or other ways verify it in a physical existence.

You and I might have a different way of believing in God because we do not need the physical evidence to have faith, but that does not count as evidence for an atheist.

 

[Trailblazer]

You appear to put a lot of limits on your gods abilities....

It is not about God's abilities. How can humans verify God if God does not want to be verified?

 

[firedragon]

Why would it be illogical to not have a belief in a God? And should those of us who believe In a God think that those who can not or do not understand the topic of God are less logical than ourselves?

I think brother you are misunderstanding the whole thing. Atheists are not stupid or illogical or immoral or anything like that by default. That’s bigotry.

The missionary atheists are illogical in their arguments in this topic of God. That’s the point. That’s a specific statement, not a general dismissal.

Do you understand the difference?

 

[firedragon]

If God did come in person or in other ways show atheists enough evidence that God actually exists.
So their questions is valid since they do not believe in other then what they can see, touch, hear or other ways verify it in a physical existence.

You and I might have a different way of believing in God because we do not need the physical evidence to have faith, but that does not count as evidence for an atheist.

Can you try and give me an example of evidence that atheists are talking about and explain why that is a reasonable or logical requirement?

An example.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I think brother you are misunderstanding the whole thing. Atheists are not stupid or illogical or immoral or anything like that by default. That’s bigotry.

The missionary atheists are illogical in their arguments in this topic of God. That’s the point. That’s a specific statement, not a general dismissal.

Do you understand the difference?

Yes, I do understand the difference But I am glad you took your time to explain it in a different way than the OP starter do Personally, I can disagree a lot with atheists in the topic of if God exists or not, but I also think they are in their right to question me about why and how I believe in a God we can not physically see.