Atheists: WOW proof this Book is from God.

[camanintx]

If you read carefully the first point in the link is confirming what i presented it
was common knowledge only 100years ago not in ancient china, it doesn't say they
were unique, or when that was, therefore its not reliable.

The first point in the link only says that governments worldwide have used fingerprints during the past 100 years to provide accurate identification of criminals. It says nothing about their use in ancient times, you have to look further down the page for that. As for the Babylonians and Chinese, why else would they use fingerprints on clay tablets and seals if not for identification? And why would they use them if they didn't know that each fingerprint was unique?

I also have the one about the DNA, but i dont know the Qur'an by heart therefore
i gotta find it, hang tight.

Let me save you some time. Here is a web site listing all of the scientific miracles contained in the Qur'an. Miracles of the Qur'an - Modern Science Reveals New Miracles of the Qur'an

There are also just as many web sites explaining how these are not miracles. Here's an example. Qur'an and Science

 

[~Amin~]

. As for the Babylonians and Chinese, why else would they use fingerprints on clay tablets and seals if not for identification? And why would they use them if they didn't know that each fingerprint was unique?

They may of used it as an indication to show the transaction took place,
as was said in the link it was for transaction.
As for the Babylonians and chinese, if it were used for identification why
doesn't it say so in the link?, I'm sure they would of put it down, and still
it doesn't tell us how ancient is ancient, i think your adding things which
are not in the link, but what we know for certain is its only known for SURE
100years ago.
Anyone can come along and do this, eg i can get a scientific fact only
discovered a year ago and make up a web site and make out like
it was known 2thouand years ago, the point is there is no bases for this,
and this can be said about Aristotle and the others also no original
no original language, not convincing at all.

The durability of the originals is no proof of divine protection.

In this part i wasnt trying to prove they are divinly protected even though
i believe so, all i was asking is , is that statement accurate in terms of its
preservation.[/quote]

If they were written on leaf's, bones, and animal skin as you say, they could last quite a long time if properly cared for.

But is there any faith revelation CLAIMING to be from God which is preseved
in ANY religion or even in the case of Aristotle, the way it is in Islam, and also in the original language?

 

[Wandered Off]

Anyone can come along and do this, eg i can get a scientific fact only discovered a year ago and make up a web site and make out like it was known 2thouand years ago, the point is there is no bases for this,

Isn't that almost exactly what you're doing with this thread?

 

[~Amin~]

Isn't that almost exactly what you're doing with this thread?

I think your trying to distort the clear disscusion,
i didnt say i knew this 1400years ago,
only that it was known and theres evidence to
prove it was KNOWN at THAT TIME.

 

[camanintx]

They may of used it as an indication to show the transaction took place,
as was said in the link it was for transaction.
As for the Babylonians and chinese, if it were used for identification why
doesn't it say so in the link?, I'm sure they would of put it down, and still
it doesn't tell us how ancient is ancient, i think your adding things which
are not in the link, but what we know for certain is its only known for SURE
100years ago.

Here is an article in FindLaw that says "The use of fingerprints for identification goes back to ancient times. In ancient Babylonia and China, thumbprints and fingerprints were used on clay tablets and seals as signatures." I think that shows it was obvious long before the Qur'an that people's fingerprints were different.

But is there any faith revelation CLAIMING to be from God which is preseved in ANY religion or even in the case of Aristotle, the way it is in Islam, and also in the original language?

The point you are not grasping is that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. None of the evidence you have presented, even if were true, proves the existence of God. At best, it proves that Muhammad had information that was ahead of his time, but not that the information was divinely inspired.

 

[~Amin~]

Here is an article in FindLaw that says "The use of fingerprints for identification goes back to ancient times.

No camanintx not for identification in the ancient times, they were used
for signitures, like i mentioned most proberbly to show
transaction took place, please if i overlooked it point it out.Read the 3rd
paragraph.

In ancient Babylonia and China, thumbprints and fingerprints were used on clay tablets and seals as SIGNITURES." I think that shows it was obvious long before the Qur'an that people's fingerprints were different.

NO it was THOUGHT to be unique in the 14thcentury, Muhammad had KNOWN this information roughly inbetween 6th and 7th century, theres a HUGE difference,
wouldnt you agree?

The point you are not grasping is that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. None of the evidence you have presented, even if were true, proves the existence of God. At best, it proves that Muhammad had information that was ahead of his time, but not that the information was divinely inspired.

God is a witness, with you i am NOT trying to prove the existence of God,
Im just showing Muhammad had knowledge KNOWN LONG before anyone
THOUGHT of. Do you agree?
For me Alhamdullilah i Know the existence and belive, EVEN if there was
no revelation in Book format, because
And to God belongs the dominion of the
heavens and the earth, and God has Power
over all things.
Verily! in the creation of the heavens and the earth,
and in the alternation of night and day, there are
SIGNS for men of understanding. Qur'an 3.189, 190.

 

[painted wolf]

lots of people "back then" knew things we would find surprising... doesn't make it divine.... just smart.
My ancestors figured out how to predict solar eclipses, brain surgery, and hosts of other things.
Very smart people my ancestors.

wa:do

 

[camanintx]

God is a witness, with you i am NOT trying to prove the existence of God, Im just showing Muhammad had knowledge KNOWN LONG before anyone THOUGHT of. Do you agree?

Sorry, but I don't agree. I think you are taking vague statements out of context and interpreting them in such a way as to confirm your pre-existing assumption. People have been doing the same thing with the writings of Nostradamus and Edgar Cayce. If your claims are to be believed, then I would have to believe them as well.

 

[~Amin~]

Sorry, but I don't agree. I think you are taking vague statements out of context and interpreting them in such a way as to confirm your pre-existing assumption.

Is it not true that it was ONLY thought in the 14century that
people had unique prints?
And lets assume it was Known in the 14century, then isn't it true
that Muhammad KNEW this 7 hundred years even earlier then this?

People have been doing the same thing with the writings of Nostradamus and Edgar Cayce.

Since you said people have been doing this, it means you KNOW, and since
you know please prove it.

If your claims are to be believed, then I would have to believe them as well.

Why?

At best, it proves that Muhammad had information that was ahead of his time,

Does this statement of yours show you do believe what i have said?
not the existence of God but what i said?

 

[camanintx]

Is it not true that it was ONLY thought in the 14century that
people had unique prints?
And lets assume it was Known in the 14century, then isn't it true
that Muhammad KNEW this 7 hundred years even earlier then this?

Anyone looking at our fingerprints could deduce that there are differences from one person to another. If I can tell this now and the Persians could tell this in the 14th century, what makes you think they didn't know this in the 7th century or even 600 BC? You are only assuming that they didn't know because it supports your claim that Muhammad knew it before anyone else.

 

[~Amin~]

Anyone looking at our fingerprints could deduce that there are differences from one person to another.

If that were true it would be known.

If I can tell this now and the Persians could tell this in the 14th century, what makes you think they didn't know this in the 7th century or even 600 BC?

Why was it only THOUGHT off in the 14th century then?

You are only assuming that they didn't know because it supports your claim that Muhammad knew it before anyone else.

This is a fact according to the links YOU put in your posts. anyone can go
and investigate thoroughly

At best, it proves that Muhammad had information that was ahead of his time,.

I think you forgot this post of YOU'RS camanintx, previously sent.

 

[camanintx]

Why was it only THOUGHT off in the 14th century then?

Your original claim was that the uniqueness of fingerprints wasn't discovered until 100 years ago. Now you say it was in the 14th century. But we know they used them in ancient Babylon and China as identification. Since you cannot prove that people in the 6th century didn't recognize the uniqueness of fingerprints, you cannot prove that Mohammed's knowledge was divinely inspired.

 

[McBell]

Your original claim was that the uniqueness of fingerprints wasn't discovered until 100 years ago. Now you say it was in the 14th century. But we know they used them in ancient Babylon and China as identification. Since you cannot prove that people in the 6th century didn't recognize the uniqueness of fingerprints, you cannot prove that Mohammed's knowledge was divinely inspired.

Um.
out of idle curiosity...
How exactly would one be able to 'prove' that information is divinely inspired?

 

[~Amin~]

Your original claim was that the uniqueness of fingerprints wasn't discovered until 100 years ago. Now you say it was in the 14th century. But we know they used them in ancient Babylon and China as identification. Since you cannot prove that people in the 6th century didn't recognize the uniqueness of fingerprints, you cannot prove that Mohammed's knowledge was divinely inspired.

Hi camanintx,
i don't think this is getting anywhere, I'm sure whoever reads our
great discussion will know whats happening, so when God wills i
will present further evidence that its not an every day thing, that
a man in the 6th century+ can have this knowledge as you have
admitted.

 

[~Amin~]

Your original claim was that the uniqueness of fingerprints wasn't discovered until 100 years ago.

I still say that, in 1901 it was known 100% that every human had a unique print,
and implemented used, and was the greatest deterrent that faced the criminal,
and it says this even in the article you posted.i have my own article in front of me.

Now you say it was in the 14th century. But we know they used them in ancient Babylon and China as identification.

Ancient Babylon and China are referred to in the 14th century, why are you making
a distinction between the two?

Since you cannot prove that people in the 6th century didn't recognize the uniqueness of fingerprints, you cannot prove that Mohammed's knowledge was divinely inspired.

Its been proven in the articles you posted. Not that its divine inspiration
but it was known, and thought of way after the prophet.

 

[~Amin~]

Or do they(atheists) say: he(muhammad) fabricated
this[message]? Nay, they do not believe. Qur'an 52,43.
Or like lying dissemblers without conscience do they accuse you saying;
"You have made up the Qur'an!"? But up to this time they have known you
to be most truthfull among them and have called you Muhammad(pbuh)
the trustworthy. IT means that they have no intention to truly consider
or believe in God. Otherwise let THEM FIND the like of the Qur'an among
THE WORKS OF MEN.

 

[~Amin~]

Since you cannot prove that people in the 6th century didn't recognize the uniqueness of fingerprints, you cannot prove that Mohammed's knowledge was divinely inspired.

Lets look at this from another angle, shall we, we ALL AGREE(Alhamdullilah)
praise God, that ALL humans have a unique finger print, doesn't this in it
self in a way prove the existence of God? God is saying to His creation,
"O mankind DO NOT TRANSGRESS cant you see i have labeled your fingertips
that EVEN in this world you cant GET AWAY with your evil, and beware of a
TREMENDOUS day(day of resurrection)" therefore abide by the ordinances
of the Almighty, which are for our benefit, and so pleasurable for those
who see with there hearts.

 

[McBell]

Lets look at this from another angle, shall we, we ALL AGREE(Alhamdullilah)
praise God, that ALL humans have a unique finger print, doesn't this in it
self in a way prove the existence of God? God is saying to His creation,
"O mankind DO NOT TRANSGRESS cant you see i have labeled your fingertips
that EVEN in this world you cant GET AWAY with your evil, and beware of a
TREMENDOUS day(day of resurrection)" therefore abide by the ordinances
of the Almighty, which are for our benefit, and so pleasurable for those
who see with there hearts.

No more so than snowflakes being unique is proof af God.
It isn't even evidence of God, unless you are preaching to the choir.

 

[~Amin~]

No more so than snowflakes being unique is proof af God.

How are you Mestemia? you always disagree with me, i still care for
you in a great way, i hope you care for me and everyone else as well, there's nothing
wrong with that, as long as your sincere, i don't see how snowflakes link with the topic at hand.

It isn't even evidence of God,

Oooo yyeeeeessss......There's a clear link between my example coz
the uniqueness of fingerprints is a CLEAR proof that God takes people
to account for there evil EVEN in this WORLD threw the Police or Law enforcement,
and the believers say this is exactly the SAME WAY YOULL BE TAKEN TO ACCOUNT
IN THE HEREAFTER WWWOOOWWWW thats amazing, did you understand that
Mestemia see theres a link here, but not so with your example.

unless you are preaching to the choir.

You must really like this saying you said it MANY times, all I'm doing
is sharing my belief NOT preaching.

 

[McBell]

How are you Mestemia? you always disagree with me, i still care for
you in a great way, i hope you care for me and everyone else as well, there's nothing
wrong with that, as long as your sincere, i don't see how snowflakes link with the topic at hand.

Interesting that you cannot make any connection between the uniqueness of snowflakes and the uniqueness of fingerprints.

Oooo yyeeeeessss......There's a clear link between my example coz
the uniqueness of fingerprints is a CLEAR proof that God takes people
to account for there evil EVEN in this WORLD threw the Police or Law enforcement,
and the believers say this is exactly the SAME WAY YOULL BE TAKEN TO ACCOUNT
IN THE HEREAFTER WWWOOOWWWW thats amazing, did you understand that
Mestemia see theres a link here, but not so with your example.

Now you are merely grasping at straws.
Interesting world you live in, I must say.
Perhaps I will have the chance to visit one day.

And yes, I do understand.
And I still disagree.
Pity you do not understand.