Atheists: WOW proof this Book is from God.

[9-10ths_Penguin]

True a few things but not in detail eg
And we seperated them and made from
WATER every living thing? Qur"an 21,30
Now is this not in keeping with scientific facts?
that over 70% of the earth and living beings are
composed of water, who could of known this
in the 7th century?

In the modern sense that you're implying, it'd be fairly obvious to anyone who's ever seen any living thing dessicated that it's lost the water that must have been present when it was alive.

Historically, though, water was considered to be one of the four elements (along with earth, air and fire) - everything was thought to be made up of some combination of these four things.

 

[~Amin~]

In the modern sense that you're implying, it'd be fairly obvious to anyone who's ever seen any living thing dessicated that it's lost the water that must have been present when it was alive.

I never seen anything die and water gush out.

Historically, though, water was considered to be one of the four elements (along with earth, air and fire) - everything was thought to be made up of some combination of these four things.

I believe All things are made up of fundamentally water and also earth,
and other spirit beings from smokeless fame of fire, as for the air its
not an element used in the make of creation.
And God Almighty knows best.

 

[McBell]

I never seen anything die and water gush out.

And you have been witness to see at least one of everything that lived, die?

 

[~Amin~]

And you have been witness to see at least one of everything that lived, die?

I think this is a forced response,
i didnt say that did i Mestemia?

 

[McBell]

I think this is a forced response,
i didnt say that did i Mestemia?

Yet your reply made it sound as though you would have had to have seen it and yet because you had not sen it, it could not be true.

And no, it was not a forced response.
It was a response that hopefully gets a point across.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I never seen anything die and water gush out.

You don't have to. You can look at grapes and raisins side-by-side and realize that there's a difference between them.

I believe All things are made up of fundamentally water and also earth,
and other spirit beings from smokeless fame of fire, as for the air its
not an element used in the make of creation.
And God Almighty knows best.

There you go - belief that living creatures are made of "water" doesn't necessarily have to have the same meaning that a scientist would give it.

 

[~Amin~]

Yet your reply made it sound as though you would have had to have seen it and yet because you had not sen it, it could not be true.

How can you make an alleged statement on the bases of
how something seems to YOU? or sounds to you?
isn't that jumping to conclusions without FACT? isn't that an ERROR?
please respond to each one.

 

[McBell]

How can you make an alleged statement on the bases of
how something seems to YOU? or sounds to you?
isn't that jumping to conclusions without FACT? isn't that an ERROR?
please respond to each one.

Huh?
The fact is that you really do not know what you are talking about.
Either that or you deserve the academy award for the best performance for acting like you don't.

You also either do not have a very good grasp of the English language, do not read what is actually written, are a serious victim to passion ruling reason, merely like the sound of yourself typing, or some combination of the above.

Perhaps if you were to wait till you can actually take the time (I know how busy you are) and read what is written and at least attempt to comprehend it before you go running off into left field.

Or perhaps this is a feeble attempt at distraction?

 

[camanintx]

True a few things but not in detail eg
And we seperated them and made from
WATER every living thing? Qur"an 21,30
Now is this not in keeping with scientific facts?
that over 70% of the earth and living beings are
composed of water, who could of known this
in the 7th century?

Thales of Miletus speculated six centuries before Christ that water was the "principle of all things." You find it unreasonable that 1,300 years later they had narrowed it down to just living things? As for modern science, we've appear to have gone even further.

 

[~Amin~]

Thales of Miletus speculated six centuries before Christ that water was the "principle of all things." You find it unreasonable that 1,300 years later they had narrowed it down to just living things? As for modern science, we've appear to have gone even further.

I like you camanintx, even though you don't agree ,
you put forward a good argument without
getting personal or emotional.
I in response to you would have to ask for your
evidence, to prove that this was known or
speculated 6 centuries before Christ, there are
evidence of the Qur'an in museum's one of which
is Topkapi in turkey dating back to the few years
of the prophets death. Which is identical to what we
have in our hands today. 1400years+-.

 

[YmirGF]

As usual trying to get of main topic, your response didn't even come
near answering , or sharing with us you thought, instead you attacked
a man whom i LOVE by saying indirectly his insane and dangerous therefore
demonstrating your limited mentality, and not desiring reform or communication
but rather corruption, so id be happy if you didn't respond until your serious and respectful.

Hehe. Ah, yes "the do not mock the Prophet" ploy. Amin, you need to understand one thing at the very least. I (and many others) do not love OR respect your dear "prophet". By being respectful of your prophet, I am subtly adding support to his imagined status as "messanger of god" where I believe implicitly and without possibility of reversing my stance, that he was anything but. By the way, there is nothing indirect about my words. To me, and if but for me alone, such is my conviction, Muhammed was an insane genius who towered over the intellects of those that flocked to him. They were putty in his demented hands and he molded them well.

In regards to your deep affection for the Prophet. It simply does not mean that much to me -- to mean that much to you. We ARE talking about someone who has been dead for 1400 years. You do not even know the man, but are in adoration of what you think he stands for. You are in love with an illusion... a mental projection of your own creation that you have, through your intense, somewhat fanatical belief -- made real. (The same can be said about Christians who get all goo-goo eyed and irrational talking about Jesus, for much the same reason.)

Take heart Amin, you have succeeded in proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that you believe every word you are saying. There IS a certain logic to Muslim thinking but many Muslims do not recognize that that logic does not carry over into non-Muslim areas very well at all. Many Muslim's seem to be terribly confused and genuinely hurt when people do not just fall over and submit to their often circular reasoning and penchant for logical fallacies. Many Muslims trot out absurd arguments as if they were glittering genius and when taken to task for their thinking they simply say, "You do not understand." Like, honestly, how convenient is that? Honestly speaking, after one has heard the same response a hundred times ten, one begins to see a pattern emerging. Someone in truth does not understand what is being discussed, but I'll leave you to decide who that is.

Let's face the simple fact, Amin, you are not really interested in non-Muslim opinions as you are utterly convinced there is no merit in those opinions and so one can only ponder. "What IS the point?"

And so, I will play the Muslim card and wish you "Peace!" which to our home audience is the Islamic equivelent of saying, "This conversation is over."

 

[~Amin~]

"This conversation is over."

And those who have disbelieved say,
"You are not a messenger." Say," sufficient
is God as Witness between me and you, and
whoever has knowledge of the scripture."(previous revelations).
Qur'an 13,43.
It ll just be better if your arrogance was over, other wise
your a good man.

 

[camanintx]

I like you camanintx, even though you don't agree ,
you put forward a good argument without
getting personal or emotional.
I in response to you would have to ask for your
evidence, to prove that this was known or
speculated 6 centuries before Christ, there are
evidence of the Qur'an in museum's one of which
is Topkapi in turkey dating back to the few years
of the prophets death. Which is identical to what we
have in our hands today. 1400years+-.

We have quotes from Aristotle (3rd century BC) and Diogenes Laërtius (2nd century BC) attributing this belief to Thales of Miletos. I don't have links directly to the texts, but there doesn't appear to be much debate about it.

According to Aristotle the founder of the Ionic physical philosophy, and therefore the founder of Greek philosophy, was Thales of Miletos. According to Diogenes Laertios, Thales was born in the first year of the thirty- fifth Olympiad (640 B.C.), and his death occurred in the fifty-eighth Olympiad (548-545 B.C.). He attained note as a scientific thinker and was regarded as the founder of Greek philosophy because he discarded mythical explanations of things, and asserted that a physical element, water, was the first principle of all things. There are various stories of his travels, and in connection with accounts of his travels in Egypt he is credited with introducing into Greece the knowledge of geometry. Tradition also claims that he was a statesman, and as a practical thinker he is classed as one of the seven wise men. A work entitled 'Nautical Astronomy' was ascribed to him, but it was recognised as spurious even in antiquity.

 

[~Amin~]

We have quotes from Aristotle (3rd century BC) and Diogenes Laërtius (2nd century BC) attributing this belief to Thales of Miletos. I don't have links directly to the texts, but there doesn't appear to be much debate about it.

I also dont have the links but ive seen with my own eyes the writings
of Qur'an on leaf's, bones, and animal skin, cause there were no paper
at that time, maybe if you look it up you could find it.
are there writings like the Qur'an, of Aristotle and others original
writings not copies.

 

[~Amin~]

Verily, We it is We who have sent
down the reminder(Qur'an) and surely,
We will gaurd it. Qur'an 15,9.
Do you believe this is an acurrate statment?
And what do you think of this?
Does man think that we cannot
assemble his bones?
Nay, we are able to put together
in perfect order the very
tips of his fingers. Qur'an75,23.
In 1901, Henry was appointed as assistant commissioner
to Scotland yard and in that same year his system
introduced in England a revolution in the field of identification
and the greatest deterrent that ever confronted the criminal.

 

[camanintx]

I also dont have the links but ive seen with my own eyes the writings
of Qur'an on leaf's, bones, and animal skin, cause there were no paper
at that time, maybe if you look it up you could find it.
are there writings like the Qur'an, of Aristotle and others original
writings not copies.

While we don't have any of the original writings of Thales and what we have of Aristotle and Diogenes are only copies (books from that long ago don't preserve well), I have no reason to doubt their accounts because they don't make any extraordinary claims. They are simply repeating what one man suggested as a possible explanation of the world around us.

Even though you have see the original writings of the Qur'an, all they prove is that they were the beliefs of a man. To support the extraordinary claim that these beliefs were given to him by God, you would need something more extraordinary than 1,400 year old writings.

 

[camanintx]

Verily, We it is We who have sent
down the reminder(Qur'an) and surely,
We will gaurd it. Qur'an 15,9.
Do you believe this is an acurrate statment?
And what do you think of this?

An accurate statement of what? Reading it in context, it appears to be saying that the Quran was sent down from God. If that is your interpretation then I would have to say this is not an accurate statement since there is no God.

Does man think that we cannot
assemble his bones?
Nay, we are able to put together
in perfect order the very
tips of his fingers. Qur'an75,23.
In 1901, Henry was appointed as assistant commissioner
to Scotland yard and in that same year his system
introduced in England a revolution in the field of identification
and the greatest deterrent that ever confronted the criminal.

In ancient Babylon, fingerprints were used on clay tablets for business transactions. In ancient China, thumb prints were found on clay seals. While Henry's system of classification of fingerprints may have been innovative, it has long been common knowledge that fingerprints were unique. Now had the Qur'an said something about our DNA, you might have a case.

 

[~Amin~]

An accurate statement of what? Reading it in context, it appears to be saying that the Quran was sent down from God. If that is your interpretation then I would have to say this is not an accurate statement since there is no God.

Your right but don't forget the last words in the verse its prophecy that
itl be protected from change the original, this is what i was asking if its
accurate regardless if you believe in God or not.
And your right again there is no god BUT GOD.

 

[~Amin~]

In ancient Babylon, fingerprints were used on clay tablets for business transactions. In ancient China, thumb prints were found on clay seals. While Henry's system of classification of fingerprints may have been innovative, it has long been common knowledge that fingerprints were unique. Now had the Qur'an said something about our DNA, you might have a case.

If you read carefully the first point in the link is confirming what i presented it
was common knowledge only 100years ago not in ancient china, it doesn't say they
were unique, or when that was, therefore its not reliable.

I also have the one about the DNA, but i dont know the Qur'an by heart therefore
i gotta find it, hang tight.

 

[camanintx]

Your right but don't forget the last words in the verse its prophecy that
itl be protected from change the original, this is what i was asking if its
accurate regardless if you believe in God or not.
And your right again there is no god BUT GOD.

The durability of the originals is no proof of divine protection. If they were written on leaf's, bones, and animal skin as you say, they could last quite a long time if properly cared for. Scientists have found writings of Archimedes dating from roughly the same period preserved on parchment, a far less durable medium. You wouldn't suggest that the work of Archimedes is divinely inspired, would you? Not exactly the extraordinary evidence you need to prove an extraordinary claim.