Atheists you suck at being atheists.

[sooda]

Perhaps the self-awareness of the religious is mistakenly diagnosed - as in the feelings being misinterpreted as spirituality?

As others have commented, I have no issues with the religious, just on how their beliefs impact the rest of us who might either not have any such beliefs or whilst having a different religious belief. One can't really argue that such beliefs don't impact others in any way, and more so than most other beliefs.

But, I do have some issues with religions in general - the sort tied to a dogma apparently emanating from a divine source and originating at a time when those all around were in the thralls of bliss - as in 'ignorance is bliss'. Firstly, that they are essentially exploitative - taking advantage of our (humans in general) needs, gullibility, and stupid nature - with the rewards they offer, the various unsubstantiated claims they make, and their requisitioning of morality - as if it never existed prior to any religious belief and/or one could not be moral without having this particular religious belief. This latter is just despicable.

Secondly, I hate the way these particular religions tie us to the past rather than being dynamic enough to deal with societies as they exist in the present - Saudi Arabia is a typical example of how one does this, but many others are dragging their feet and causing problems where there should be none (homosexuality, female equality, indoctrination of children, etc.).

Lastly, although I can see why so many see religions much like other myths we tend to use daily, it doesn't help when they are essentially set in concrete and become almost immovable at a later date when their usefulness vanishes or makes them more of a liability - but where in the meantime they have caused a great deal of friction and harm - because of their claims to have 'the truth'. If we have to believe myths surely it is better to have those that don't set us up as targets for others or as ammunition to be used against others.

Atheists, as far as I can see, don't claim anything - apart from not seeing any evidence so far for a divine source of existence - which is why they are open to change and developments within society rather than having to reinterpret any scriptures regularly. Perhaps there is a divine source of creation (I'm partially open to this possibility) but by claiming this as certainty and then building an edifice of religion to withstand the rages of time one is in new and dangerous territory. And if one builds on quicksand, one can see where that leads.

Which is mostly what I see in religions - they are built on quicksand - even if it was well-intentioned.

Edit: I should have added another dislike - the separation from nature and the placing of humans apart from other species - often being seen as 'innately different' as opposed to being 'developmentally different'. Which will likely have long-term consequences for us, the planet, and all other life on Earth.

Have you spent a lot of time in Arabia? I am always interested in a fellow traveler.

 

[Revoltingest]

They have no sense of class or decorum.

Both of those are over-rated.
They interfere with fun.

 

[blü 2]

I play guitar. Its science its art. Strap a human to it and if they are good at it its inspired.

Its interesting suddenly we can hace a moment communally where some agreement of shared amazement happens across boumdries we have created.

. Art to me is spectral. There are artists in all domains. Jane goodall in her studies, Carl Sagan in his astrological, Richard Feynman in his field. I have listened to them and they convey a certain quality of their studies that runs deeper than the topic. They all inspire. To breathe into the reader the listener, a certain feel not just the raw data. Maybe thats what is missing in the enviromental issues we face. That voice. One that both conveys what is, and inspires us at the same time.

Thats a tough thing and itself and isnt really a phenomena that can be pinned down by science and quantified. I treat that as a miracle of a real kind. Rare. It happens, thats a fact, but how cant be fully explained. I dont think it ever will be.

The first classical LP that ever got to the young me was Ferde Grofé's Grand Canyon Suite (though I suspect I've outgrown it now). The first poem that ever got me going was Alfred Noyce's The Highwayman, a mix of great images and 13 yo soft porn. I had all sorts of science books growing up, but when young, William Gray Walter's The Living Brain and later Jared Diamond's The Third Chimpanzee got me excited.

Yes, it's good to be alive.

 

[Aupmanyav]

That's good. When you not belief the sun into not setting get back to me, i will listen.

Why should I have a theist-like belief, believing in what does not have any evidence and not believing in something that is evident (Pratyaksha - existing before your eyes). However, Sun is just a mass of Hydrogen atoms.

I treat that as a miracle of a real kind. Rare. It happens, thats a fact, but how cant be fully explained. I dont think it ever will be.

What explanation of it do you want? Unnecessarily mystifying things. Yes, arts please us, it is food for the mind. We are as hungry for it as we are for food for the stomach. Humans are both mind and body and not just one of them, generally.

 

[David T]

Why should I have a theist-like belief, believing in what does not have any evidence and not believing in something that is evident (Pratyaksha - existing before your eyes). However, Sun is just a mass of Hydrogen atoms.What explanation of it do you want? Unnecessarily mystifying things. Yes, arts please us, it is food for the mind. We are as hungry for it as we are for food for the stomach. Humans are both mind and body and not just one of them, generally.

Like i said please "not believe" the sun setting. I stict to nature its always correct.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Have you spent a lot of time in Arabia? I am always interested in a fellow traveler.

Nope, never been a priority. Must be the heat - always an issue for me - and would rather be up a mountain or on the sea.

So obviously I am limited as to my knowledge - just as I am with all the other countries I haven't visited - much like everyone else. I could perhaps have replaced SA with any of the other countries seemingly at odds with the 21st century.

 

[sooda]

Nope, never been a priority. Must be the heat - always an issue for me - and would rather be up a mountain or on the sea.

So obviously I am limited as to my knowledge - just as I am with all the other countries I haven't visited - much like everyone else. I could perhaps have replaced SA with any of the other countries seemingly at odds with the 21st century.

SA is code for South Africa. Saudi Arabia is known internationally as KSA. You assume an awful lot for someone who hasn't traveled.

 

[Mock Turtle]

SA is code for South Africa. Saudi Arabia is known internationally as KSA. You assume an awful lot for someone who hasn't traveled.

My sloppiness - I would assume that when I said Saudi Arabia one would assume SA would indicate this rather than anyone being pedantic. I have travelled but one hardly needs to have done so when we appraise the actions and beliefs of others when they seem so apparent from what comes out of such in information terms. Saudi Arabia, like so many other fundamentalist Islamic countries, is as much apart from modern thought as so many others - even the USA - where they are at odds with the rest of the reasonably civilised world in so many ways too.

Have a nice day!

 

[LuisDantas]

Atheists suck at being Atheists.No wonder the church is so screwy you suck at doing your job. Atheism is infact very important aspect to church and church life. Doubt is important. You are going to heaven Whether you like it or not. You are screwed. If you are bad you wlll be eternally stuck in the pentacostal section.. It will be heaven and worse than the lake of fire. Ha! An eternity stuck with your worst nightmare crazy religious fanatics.

You know, I sort of agree with that, to a point.

Ok the humor aside can any self aware atheist (oxymoron),

Oh, come on now. You are just being needlessly provocative here and you know that.

tell me the major problem. With religion today?

There are several, but here are some of the main candidates as I perceive them.

- Not nearly enough clarity neither of concepts nor of role. We end up talking past each other without always even noticing it, because there is a myriad of understandings both of what religion _is_ and of what it is _supposed to be_.

- Abuse of self-indulgence and antifragility. To a large extent it does not even matter what the reality of religion is, because we have such strong traditions of protecting it anyway, for reasons that include attachment to either an ideal or a fantasy of what it is "supposed" to be.

Edited to add: It is significant that we _also_ have strong traditions of treating religions in various unflattering ways, largely because that is what we expect from each other. It is hardly a new phenomenon, either. It has become fashionable to blame atheists for it in recent times, but it is actually a very ancient habit and often an expected one in certain social circles. Some of those traditions are themselves religious in nature, others have more of a social or political bent.

- Good old-fashioned ignorance, arrogance and stubborness. It is truly depressing how some hugely influential doctrines rely on those rather base traits in order to affirm themselves. Theistic doctrines, particularly, very often show an appaling lack of even the appearance of a honest attempt at establishing the true role and nature of their own presumed basic ideas. It is very disconcerting to see a theistic proselitist attempt to convince me with arguments that I have a urge to try and fix on their stead, but it happens very often.

They truly are a sorry bunch - people who try to assure me that theistic belief is the way that I should pursue, all the while they show me such failed attempts at argumentation that I can't help but wonder how much energy they end up wasting attempting to lend them some appearance of substance. They deserve better.

 

[David T]

You know, I sort of agree with that, to a point.



Oh, come on now. You are just being needlessly provocative here and you know that.



There are several, but here are some of the main candidates as I perceive them.

- Not nearly enough clarity neither of concepts nor of role. We end up talking past each other without always even noticing it, because there is a myriad of understandings both of what religion _is_ and of what it is _supposed to be_.

- Abuse of self-indulgence and antifragility. To a large extent it does not even matter what the reality of religion is, because we have such strong traditions of protecting it anyway, for reasons that include attachment to either an ideal or a fantasy of what it is "supposed" to be.

- Good old-fashioned ignorance, arrogance and stubborness. It is truly depressing how some hugely influential doctrines rely on those rather base traits in order to affirm themselves. Theistic doctrines, particularly, very often show an appaling lack of even the appearance of a honest attempt at establishing the true role and nature of their own presumed basic ideas. It is very disconcerting to see a theistic proselitist attempt to convince me with arguments that I have a urge to try and fix on their stead, but it happens very often.

They truly are a sorry bunch - people who try to assure me that theistic belief is the way that I should pursue, all the while they show me such failed attempts at argumentation that I can't help but wonder how much energy they end up wasting attempting to lend them some appearance of substance. They deserve better.

Fantastic

Read my consciousness is fiction and thats a fact post. I would appreciate comment.

 

[ChristineM]

Atheists suck at being Atheists.No wonder the church is so screwy you suck at doing your job. Atheism is infact very important aspect to church and church life. Doubt is important. You are going to heaven Whether you like it or not. You are screwed. If you are bad you wlll be eternally stuck in the pentacostal section.. It will be heaven and worse than the lake of fire. Ha! An eternity stuck with your worst nightmare crazy religious fanatics.

Ok the humor aside can any self aware atheist (oxymoron), tell me the major problem. With religion today?
Please,
No the bible is the problem.
No science is the truth
No usage of the term god allowed.
Or politics.
Omg i have eliminated science, the bible, and god from the discussion.. I have eliminated 4 crutches always used. Whats the main problem as you see it with none of the above crutches allowed. I might add some depending.

You eliminated only 4 crutches, there is a fifth. The need to be around like minded yes men (and women)

 

[David T]

You eliminated only 4 crutches, there is a fifth. The need to be around like minded yes men (and women)

Thus are atheists here because they are affirmed by religious back and forth self affirming each other?

Read my post consiousness is fiction thats a fact", i would appreciate comments from you. The little girl in the post is very close to my heart. She is brillant but hard to see.

 

[ChristineM]

Thus are atheists here because they are affirmed by religious back and forth self affirming each other?

Read my post consiousness is fiction thats a fact", i would appreciate comments from you. The little girl in the post is very close to my heart. She is brillant but hard to see.

I can't speak for others but i am here for fun and enjoyment. Also i like the challenge of attempting to educate religious atheist haters that being atheist does not mean you are a scientist, communist, or anything else the religious type wants to label atheist.

Consciousness is a physical action of the brain. I am pretty sure a working brain is not fiction but a lump of squidgy matter

 

[David T]

I can't speak for others but i am here for fun and enjoyment. Also i like the challenge of attempting to educate religious atheist haters that being atheist does not mean you are a scientist, communist, or anything else the religious type wants to label atheist.

Consciousness is a physical action of the brain. I am pretty sure a working brain is not fiction but a lump of squidgy matter

Oh no its not its fiction!

 

[ChristineM]

Oh no its not its fiction!

That is a fictitious statement

 

[night912]

Atheists suck at being Atheists.No wonder the church is so screwy you suck at doing your job. Atheism is infact very important aspect to church and church life. Doubt is important. You are going to heaven Whether you like it or not. You are screwed. If you are bad you wlll be eternally stuck in the pentacostal section.. It will be heaven and worse than the lake of fire. Ha! An eternity stuck with your worst nightmare crazy religious fanatics.

Ok the humor aside can any self aware atheist (oxymoron), tell me the major problem. With religion today?
Please,
No the bible is the problem.
No science is the truth
No usage of the term god allowed.
Or politics.
Omg i have eliminated science, the bible, and god from the discussion.. I have eliminated 4 crutches always used. Whats the main problem as you see it with none of the above crutches allowed. I might add some depending.

Some religious people is the problem. Eventhough you've taken away four crutches from an atheist, an atheist still have different means to move about. That's because many atheists, like theists, don't require your four crutches to walk. It's funny how those religious people think that just because they themselves need those four crutches to move about, they assume that taking those crutches away will also hinder an atheist from moving about.

Atheists have a lot of different ways to move around.

May be with you, god bless you, may the force be with you, adios, sayonara, goodbye, etc....

 

[David T]

Some religious people is the problem. Eventhough you've taken away four crutches from an atheist, an atheist still have different means to move about. That's because many atheists, like theists, don't require your four crutches to walk. It's funny how those religious people think that just because they themselves need those four crutches to move about, they assume that taking those crutches away will also hinder an atheist from moving about.

Atheists have a lot of different ways to move around.

May be with you, god bless you, may the force be with you, adios, sayonara, goodbye, etc....

Funny i was pretty certain one was SCIENCE.

 

[night912]

Funny i was pretty certain one was SCIENCE.

That's not the truth. Mentioned one reason, some religious people.

 

[David T]

That's not the truth. Mentioned one reason, some religious people.

I am pretty sjre every emojii in yojr previois post is related to science but hey maybe magic created them. Just saying deerrrrrrrr. Is english a 3rd language for you?

 

[Valjean]

Oh no its not its fiction!

A thing can be fiction and real at the same time.
There may be only one Objective Reality, but who can grasp it? It's beyond our sensory and neurological capacities, at least at this, 3rd level of consciousness. The world we perceive is tiny, and an abstraction.

Inasmuch as, for practical reasons, we have to dwell in the world we perceive, we treat it as real, and within our little realities, everything is orderly and predictable. It's only when you get a bunch of physicists and mathematicians poking into things too deeply that the contradictions and impossibilities intrude on our realities.

I can believe in Stonehenge and, at the same time, concede it's a figment of my imagination and not a feature in quantum reality.