Aussies to vote soon on whether to make gay marriage legal

[SomeRandom]

go ahead, feel free to puts words in my mouth

I merely drew a conclusion. You are perfectly free to correct me.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Its cool to vote yes for gay marriage and show how "broad-minded and liberal" you are. Dinosaurs like me will lose. Catholics who value tradition, Christians who love and obey scripture will be mocked. Sliding further and further away from the truth. The future looks grim for conservatives.

I admit I'm not a traditionalist. I don't believe tradition is worthy inofitself, and I don't believe in theocracies or the supremacy of any scripture in policy making. I don't believe enough Jehovah's Witnesses should be able to ban blood transfusion because it conflicts their idea of 'truth.' (yes I'm aware JWs don't vote on government policy. It's just an example.) I don't believe enough Scientologists should be able to ban SSRI or other mood stabilizing drugs. And I don't believe enough Christians should be able to ban gay marriage.
Traditional Catholic values would have kept me silent, or in jail, for being an atheist. Things should be analyzed to find their merit, new or long held. And that includes 'broad-minded and liberal' ideas, not all of which I agree with. What is new isn't good because it's new, and what is old isn't good because it's old.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Then we are expected to have like a dual personality. One opinion for the state one for the Church.

No, I would think you'd have one opinion. I know I do. My opinion on this is that I want Australians to have equal rights.
It has nothing to do with my feelings or thoughts on homosexuality.

I wont campaign for a No vote but if someone asks me what I think I will tell them my honest opinion.

I like honesty. I'm honestly trying to get you to think twice about your vote.
From my point of view, we're discussing the issue, and that's a good thing.

 

[gottalovemoses]

Nobody is messing with sacraments or church services

I'm just stating where Catholics are coming from. We hold marriage as sacred. You ask us what we think about "marriage" and we'll tell you.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I would. They are an icon for rampant capitalism and don't give two hoots about the poor in society.

That's sort of just 'capitalism' in general. But that's another topic.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I'm just stating where Catholics are coming from. We hold marriage as sacred. You ask us what we think about "marriage" and we'll tell you.

This isn't asking you what you think about 'marriage.'
If your thoughts are that Catholicism is the closest thing to truth then do you believe you would vote 'yes' on a ban to all other churches? Because that IS theocracy, and totalitarian at that.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'm just stating where Catholics are coming from. We hold marriage as sacred. You ask us what we think about "marriage" and we'll tell you.

Technically a Catholic marriage is only "sacred" if performed by a priest in accordance with canon law. Civil marriages are just contracts between the state and individuals. Again, two different things.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Thank you for this. I do understand a little better now.

I get the impression that the US is (or has been) fairly unique on the matters of surrogacy, assisted reproduction, and even adoption compared to mostother developed nations. There's never been any government control of who may get IVF or other forms of assisted reproduction, or of who may become surrogate parents (unless it involved adoption and the adopting parents didn't pass the home study). In lots of states, lesbians and gay men have been able to adopt for more than a couple of decades now.

Yes. Our laws were more uniform in the past, with there being quite a few cases of Australians going to the States due to the laws not enabling gay surrogacy here.
They're more equitable now. Focus of the laws here generally are around payment (as in, you can't pay for surrogacy, it needs to be voluntary), which can still encourage some to head overseas, I suspect. But it's an equitable law.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

My chief dislike in all this are the hangers on, not the gays themselves. The ones who boast about having "gay friends" and being so "modern". It is partly a young generation versus older generation issue. Young people like to distance themselves from people like me who adhere to traditional values. That's fine actually because I don't pine to be close to them either.

Again...that doesn't describe me in the least.
I don't like 'trendy band-wagon' types either. But that has nothing to do with my choice in this.
They irritate me, why would I allow them to impact on my choices??

 

[gottalovemoses]

My opinion on this is that I want Australians to have equal rights.

I'm not so sure this issue is about equal rights. It's about liberal ascendancy. Look at how Margaret Court was howled down. Bullying is rampant now. You are a"homophobe" if you disagree.
And what is this transgenders wanting their own toilets at school? Un be lieve able.

 

[columbus]

I'm just stating where Catholics are coming from. We hold marriage as sacred. You ask us what we think about "marriage" and we'll tell you.

Trust me dude, I know the Catholic church very well. I have two uncles who were monsignors and go to the local RCC. Catholics who make the distinction between "marriage" and "civil union" are pretty common anymore. I'd bet they are more common in Australia than you might realize, although I can't know that, obviously.
Tom

 

[gottalovemoses]

Because that IS theocracy, and totalitarian

totalitarian? actually liberals aren't aware of their control freak tendencies. Lack of self-awareness?

 

[gottalovemoses]

Trust me dude, I know the Catholic church very well. I have two uncles who were monsignors and go to the local RCC. Catholics who make the distinction between "marriage" and "civil union" are pretty common anymore. I'd bet they are more common in Australia than you might realize, although I can't know that, obviously.
Tom

I got a letter from the local bishop last Sunday at Church. He hopes we vote "No". Dont see a problem with that.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

totalitarian? actually liberals aren't aware of their control freak tendencies. Lack of self-awareness?

I notice you didn't answer my question. If it were within your power as a Catholic, would you vote away other religious rights because of your feelings on the wrongness of other religions and the rightness of yours? If not, why is it different from trying to make your Catholic idea of marriage apply to non-Catholics as well?
Because despite your accusation of control freak tendencies, this wouldn't change Catholic marriage at all. Catholics would still be able to preform marriages how they see fit. It would just let people who aren't Catholic also be able to preform marriages how they see fit.

And if your answer is yes, then I think you might have some lack of self-awareness of how little you estimate your own desire to control others.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

That would go double for gay adoptive parents I am sure.

It shouldn't have to, and that shouldn't come into it.
But yes, I suspect practically there is a degree of truth in your statement.
I wonder if Muslim parents adopting are similarly getting some extra scrutiny these days.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I'm not so sure this issue is about equal rights.

That's an easier opinion to have when you already have equal rights.

It's about liberal ascendancy. Look at how Margaret Court was howled down. Bullying is rampant now. You are a"homophobe" if you disagree.

If you want to prevent someone else doing something, based on their sexuality, when it has no direct impact on you, then that would appear to be prejudiced. This is the SAME reason I am in another thread arguing strongly that we shouldn't ban religions.
However, how is howling down Margaret Court bullying, but having a subset of Australians with lesser rights something you not only have no issue with, but would actively defend?

And what is this transgenders wanting their own toilets at school? Un be lieve able.

This has nothing to do with this issue. At all.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I got a letter from the local bishop last Sunday at Church. He hopes we vote "No". Dont see a problem with that.

Ask him to please pass a petition against atheist marriage and marriage of divorcees at the same time, please.

 

[SomeRandom]

I'm not so sure this issue is about equal rights. It's about liberal ascendancy. Look at how Margaret Court was howled down. Bullying is rampant now. You are a"homophobe" if you disagree.
And what is this transgenders wanting their own toilets at school? Un be lieve able.

Yes, like people who are against interracial marriage tend to be called racists. Despite their protests.
And bullying? How about not allowing gay people the right to live as law abiding consenting adults as equals with their significant other just because YOU personally have an issue with it?
Like mate, gay marriage doesn't magically cancel out your marriage. If the legislation contained a clause that said the Catholic Church had to perform gay marriages, then I'd fight against that by your side. But sharing your pie doesn't mean that you don't also enjoy your pie at the same time.

Margaret Court wasn't howled down. She made comments disagreeing with gay marriage, people voiced their disagreement. Granted social media blew up and the idiotic comments came in hard and fast, but that's just how social media is about literally everything. So meh.

And where the hell did transgendered toilets come from? What does that have to do with anything? Non sequitur much?

 

[columbus]

It shouldn't have to, and that shouldn't come into it.

You probably have a bigger problem with it than I do.
The unfortunate fact is that gay people, as a group, have a lot more psychological damage than most people. It's the result of growing up in homophobic environments.
They also learn to hide it better than most people because the closet is where they spend a lot of formative years.
Sad, but true.
I wouldn't have a problem with extra scrutiny of gay couples looking to adopt.
Tom

 

[lewisnotmiller]

You probably have a bigger problem with it than I do.

Yep. And you nailed why too, I think.
I have the luxury of being able to hold the opinion without having the slings of life beat down my expectations.

Also, as a teacher, I have seen how very low the bar for 'parent' can be.
If we're talking about EVERYONE having to jump a little higher, I'd be right on board. I don't get the obsession with sex lives. They're really not that interesting.