Aussies to vote soon on whether to make gay marriage legal

[SomeRandom]

You guys have said nothing to convince me that gay marriage is a good idea. So insult away if you like. But it just means you're desperate.

I never insulted you. If you feel that way I apologise, but similarly you have failed to provide a substantial case for why gay marriage should be illegal for consenting adults who are not Catholic or even Christian.

 

[gottalovemoses]

I never insulted you. If you feel that way I apologise, but similarly you have failed to provide a substantial case for why gay marriage should be illegal for consenting adults who are not Catholic or even Christian.

because you have made your mind up. You're not listening. But that's ok. These debates rarely achieve a shift in views.

 

[SomeRandom]

Hey mate I don't care if your amazing intelligence cant fathom my pov. I will let it be your problem.

Now who's being insulting?
My intelligence is irrelevant and dim. But this is why we have debates, to see the other side and their justifications, right?
Yours seems irrational, but you are free to convince me otherwise. I'm open to it.

I do wonder if Jesus would be marching against legalised gay Marriage though.

 

[gottalovemoses]

I do wonder if Jesus would be marching against legalised gay Marriage though.

He hangs round with those on the fringes, the rejects. But now we oldie traditionalists have become the rejects and the gay community,"normal mainstream".

 

[SomeRandom]

because you have made your mind up. You're not listening. But that's ok. These debates rarely achieve a shift in views.

No I am open. To rational logical reasoning. I have not seen much so far.
So I ask, why would you oppose gay marriage in the legal sense? I understand in the context of your Church and congregation. But do you honestly believe that a secular society, like Australia, should be forced to follow the rules of the Catholic Church?

 

[SomeRandom]

He hangs round with those on the fringes, the rejects. But now we oldie traditionalists have become the rejects and the gay community,"normal mainstream".

I don't think that's true. The very fact that people can even argue for or against the rights of gay people, like that's not mainstream. That's a marginalised group pretty much by default.
Also didn't Jesus hang around with sinners?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

you don't see the connect do you? Its slippery slope whether you like it or not. We are living in a world where everyone is more aware of their rights than their responsibilities.

Not everyone, that's hyperbole. And it's not limited to non-Catholics, liberals, or however else you wish to divide the world.
Arch-bishop Dennis Hart, for example, is much more concerned with the rights of the confessional than his responsibilities to follow the law.

 

[gottalovemoses]

To rational logical reasoning.

Whist I respect that paradigm, I think one needs to graduate to a more spiritual plane if one wants to be Christian. So I don't feel beholdin to logic. Never will I become logic's slave. Many artists know this intuitively. I usually avoid these debate type threads because to be honest "left brain'" thinking bores me to tears, very soon.

 

[gottalovemoses]

Also didn't Jesus hang around with sinners?

Yes he did. And the Pharisees at the time attacked him for it. But I think he answered to the effect " but these people are humble enough to admit their sinfulness". Jesus loved the sinner but not the sin.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I'm doing my best to fill in a huge hole in this forum. That of the conservative, traditional voice. Looks like I'm on my own.

We'd prefer the forum is filled with rational and informative discussion. There is no need to 'fill a gap', but differences in points of view are welcome. It doesn't mean people need to agree with you.

But since you are trying to fill said hole, what is your position on atheist marriage, or on marriage of divorcees? I've raised it multiple times without direct response. In the interests of transparency, I am asking since I still don't understand the cherry picking of some sins over others when it comes to marriage.

 

[gottalovemoses]

So who's voting "No" besides me then?

 

[gottalovemoses]

But since you are trying to fill said hole, what is your position on atheist marriage, or on marriage of divorcees? I've raised it multiple times without direct response. In the interests of transparency, I am asking since I still don't understand the cherry picking of some sins over others when it comes to marriage.

I've never pondered that one. I think the Catholic church is too severe on divorcees. (apparently some don't get served communion while divorced)But I understand someone has to take the absolute stance. Otherwise we descend into chaos.

 

[LuisDantas]

I've never pondered that one. I think the Catholic church is too severe on divorcees. (apparently some don't get served communion while divorced)But I understand someone has to take the absolute stance. Otherwise we descend into chaos.

You feel the need to take this that you call the absolute stance regardless of whether you find it sensible?

 

[LuisDantas]

I'm not so sure this issue is about equal rights. It's about liberal ascendancy. Look at how Margaret Court was howled down. Bullying is rampant now. You are a"homophobe" if you disagree.

It may be liberal ascendancy, or it may not. I honestly don't know. But is it wrong? I don't think so.

And what is this transgenders wanting their own toilets at school? Un be lieve able.

The alternatives are better in your opinion? How so, or why?

 

[LuisDantas]

Then we are expected to have like a dual personality. One opinion for the state one for the Church.
I wont campaign for a No vote but if someone asks me what I think I will tell them my honest opinion.

How is it a dual personality to understand that the Church's preferences won't always coincide with what the law should allow or acknowledge?

 

[LuisDantas]

Civil marriage has nothing to do with your religious sacrament. They're two separate things. No one is saying that Catholics should change their sacrament to recognize gay marriages (except for pro-LGBT Catholics but that's your own infighting issue). Why should all of society follow what your religion believes on this issue, when not everyone is Catholic?

This.

 

[gottalovemoses]

How is it a dual personality to understand that the Church's preferences won't always coincide with what the law should allow or acknowledge?

I am a Christian and that is central to how I perceive the world secular or not.You are asking me to look through the lens of a non-Christian and I refuse to do that.

 

[LuisDantas]

why should catholics vote Yes to gay marriage just to please the rest of society?

They should not.

Nor should they refuse to acknowledge the basic decency and legimacy of LGBT, either. Nor the need for them to have the same rights and protections that they would have were they straight.

 

[SomeRandom]

Whist I respect that paradigm, I think one needs to graduate to a more spiritual plane if one wants to be Christian. So I don't feel beholdin to logic. Never will I become logic's slave. Many artists know this intuitively. I usually avoid these debate type threads because to be honest "left brain'" thinking bores me to tears, very soon.

Hey I'm all about abstract. I like arts, I like thinking outside the box. I like philosophy, though I am too dumb to "get it" often. The arts are integral to our species as is the abstract thinking that makes it.

But there's a time and a place for artistic lofty and spiritual thinking and there's a time for logic.
Discussing a person's rights and civil liberties is not really a good time to go off on random artsy tangents. Though that is infinitely more fun, I agree.

 

[LuisDantas]

I am a Christian and that is central to how I perceive the world secular or not.You are asking me to look through the lens of a non-Christian and I refuse to do that.

If you say so. I would pray for you, were I a theist.