Australian Satanism and the Temple of THEM

[kerriscott]

I see all of these (genuine) currents as one, as one lineage, because many aspect of some new system (order, esoteric philosophy, whatever) wouldn't exist without the previous one to which the latter was contrary to some extent, thus evolving it. And so on.

I'm inclined to agree with you here. From that perspective, the logos of the O9A is one person's evolution of the LHP perceiveration, just as the O9A seven fold way is modern expression of ancient Hellenic hermeticism and a continuation of ancient mystery traditions.

Sometimes, it's just a question of 'new terms for old'.

"The 'outer secret' of the inner, the real, the living, alchemy is that the end and the result of both our apparently separate journeys is the same; the same place, the same understanding, the same knowledge. For wisdom is undivided, the same for all of us, whatever we believed or assumed when we began. Or expressed another way, lapis philosophicus is what it is, and always has been, and does what it does, and always has done, in terms of how it affects and changes those few who have succeeded in their decades-long endeavour and thus discovered it, and discovered it where it has always been hidden."​

The above quotation, from Anton Long, is taken from the very interesting article Myatt, The Septenary Anados, And The Quest For Lapis Philosophicus.

Here, one side simply asserts that Crispy is not capable of fulfilling such a role, due to his lack of true understanding of esoterics. But people do grow. who knows what would be of him. if survives this transit.

Agreed. As someone pointed out recently, he's still youngish - so IMO it's a question, for him, of self-honesty (such as admitting his mistakes and current limitations) and acquiring the practical (and, importantly, documented) experience that should produce the necessary pathei-mathos.

 

[Satan's Right Hand Man]

Where can I meet some of you in person?

We are here in the Holy City of Melbourne Australia where the Messiah, Ryan Anschauung ('alayhi as-salaam), lives. If you are in the area, you are free to come and worship THEM with us.

We have our meetings and hold our worship services every Fridays at the Australian Lesbian and Gay Archive. You can find information about the Archive here: Australian Lesbian and Gay Archives | Since 1978, collecting and preserving Australia

Please let Hollow know you are genuinely interested in meeting THEM in person. He will provide you contact information. Thank you for your interest!

 

[jeff77]

The woman announces going offline, deletes her facebook account and next day, she's there again under a different nickname

An unproven assumption. By the same type of logic, you could assume all new posters on O9A threads here, on facebook, or elsewhere, are the same person using a different nickname.

You could just as well have assumed there's a O9A sisterhood coven secretly operating in the tristate area. No real proof for that either.

like a mouse hiding behind a lump of cheese.

From the posts of yours I've read here, on facebook, and on 600club, you've been known to criticize people for tantrum-like childish behavior (one particular and rather rude term springs to mind in relation to Hollow/KS for instance) and yet you yourself indulge in petty, and sometimes childish, name-calling, as here.

I don't recall KS responding in a similar manner to your jibes or to those made by others.

The moment she starts pontificating about the Code of Kindred Honor, the game is out.

Several people use O9A terms and talk about them, that code included. Here, on facebook, and elsewhere. Why, I seem to recall Alder on facebook using that term several times recently. Is he therefore, by your logic, also June? Given that the term was coined by AL, then everyone who mentions that code (such as Mr Parker) is also, by your logic, AL. So you've finally proved that they're all AL. Splendid.

By the same token, your use of the term "indicative" - heavily used by Kerri here and on the 600club in relation to Mr Hollow - might lead us to believe you're also one of "them", and thus are also AL in disguise.

Yes, I'm being ridiculous, which is the point.

 

[Curious_Cat]

We are here in the Holy City of Melbourne Australia where the Messiah, Ryan Anschauung ('alayhi as-salaam), lives. If you are in the area, you are free to come and worship THEM with us.

We have our meetings and hold our worship services every Fridays at the Australian Lesbian and Gay Archive. You can find information about the Archive here: Australian Lesbian and Gay Archives | Since 1978, collecting and preserving Australia

Please let Hollow know you are genuinely interested in meeting THEM in person. He will provide you contact information. Thank you for your interest!

Thanks mate, Are newcomers generally accepted? Im intrigued not sure if I want to be a part of it, would like to see first hand what it is about.

Please PM me with deets @ hollow

 

[Satan's Right Hand Man]

Thanks mate, Are newcomers generally accepted? Im intrigued not sure if I want to be a part of it, would like to see first hand what it is about.

Please PM me with deets @ hollow

As we say here in the States: "De nada, mi amiga. Any tyng."

Yes, newcomers are accepted with open arms. Our Messiah, Ryan Anschauung ('alayhi as-salaam), is a new Messiah, and thus needs many sinister apostles.

By the powers of my sinister psychic empathy senses, I see you are a lesbian. You will fit right in. We're all "family," if you know what I mean.

 

[Curious_Cat]

As we say here in the States: "De nada, mi amiga. Any tyng."

Yes, newcomers are accepted with open arms. Our Messiah, Ryan Anschauung ('alayhi as-salaam), is a new Messiah, and thus needs many sinister apostles.

By the powers of my sinister psychic empathy senses, I see you are a lesbian. You will fit right in. We're all "family," if you know what I mean.

:cover:
hahaha why do people on this forum think i'm lesbian? Im straight, I like Men.:sorry1:

 

[Satan's Right Hand Man]

:cover:
hahaha why do people on this forum think i'm lesbian? Im straight, I like Men.:sorry1:

You are probably a secret lesbian. What they call "Bottle Lesbians," that is to say, a girl who is straight sober, but after a few bottles

My dear, the Men of THEM are hardly straight.

 

[Curious_Cat]

You are probably a secret lesbian. What they call "Bottle Lesbians," that is to say, a girl who is straight sober, but after a few bottles

My dear, the Men of THEM are hardly straight.

Haha I have kissed a girl, but didnt like it :sorry1:

Im not going there to have sex lol I would like to learn about their teachings.

 

[Satan's Right Hand Man]

Haha I have kissed a girl, but didnt like it :sorry1:

It's not your fault. The other girl was perhaps ugly, and she didn't provide enough beer for you. What you need is a real woman to kiss you good... such as a bull dike. We have plenty of those in THEM!

Im not going there to have sex...

Oh dammit. There is a saying that goes: "Always expect the unexpected." Once you meet me in person in Melbourne, and I snare you with my charm and cultish charisma, you'll have a change of heart

 

[AnnaCzereda]

Thanks mate, Are newcomers generally accepted? Im intrigued not sure if I want to be a part of it, would like to see first hand what it is about.

Please PM me with deets @ hollow

Look. If you're such a curious cat as you call yourself, couldn't you at the very least google a few things before you jump in and make a total fool out of yourself?

Several people use O9A terms and talk about them, that code included. Here, on facebook, and elsewhere. Why, I seem to recall Alder on facebook using that term several times recently. Is he therefore, by your logic, also June? Given that the term was coined by AL, then everyone who mentions that code (such as Mr Parker) is also, by your logic, AL. So you've finally proved that they're all AL. Splendid.

Alder isn't even half as loquacious as June/Kerri. Get real. I know what I know. You can recognize the person by the writing style. If I came here under the nickname "hellish puppy 666" for ****z and giggles, but posted in my usual manner, it wouldn't take you much time to figure out that hellish puppy 666 and Anna Czereda are one and the same person.

you yourself indulge in petty, and sometimes childish, name-calling, as here.

Excuse me? You must be kidding me now. So now a comparison to a mouse hiding behind cheese is an insult. How sensitive you people are. Just go through this thread and read all these "respectful" comments here. You still think I'm the one calling people names here?

 

[Satan's Right Hand Man]

Look. If you're such a curious cat as you call yourself, couldn't you at the very least google a few things before you jump in and make a total fool out of yourself?

Curious_Cat, don't mind Anna. She's Polish. That's the equivalent of clinical insanity.

It's best to learn about anything from the horse's mouth and from people, as opposed to random internet chatter. Anna get's most of her information about stuff from internet chatter... which will explain her delusions.

 

[AnnaCzereda]

Curious_Cat, don't mind Anna. She's Polish. That's the equivalent of clinical insanity.

Stop trolling you funny guy. :fox:

Oh well... it looks like KHK finally gave up and doesn't want to have anything to do with the ONA peeps. So now he doesn't claim to be part of the ONA any longer.

Q: Is the Temple of THEM presently (15 July 2014) affiliated with the ONA also known as the Order of Nine Angles?
No. No it is not.
Q: Was it ever affiliated with the ONA?
It was thought so – but some speaking on behalf of ONA have since denied this affiliation was ever valid, that it used us (THEM) to achieve its aims of disseminating the large volume of material hollow was responsible for making widespread over the decade, and has since taken every opportunity to declare that the Temple of THEM, Hollow and company, have nothing to do with it: We are fine with this. It has further placed the blame for its poor internet image and reception of ONA tenets by others, squarely at our feet, labelling us o9a pretendu responsible for tarnishing its image and receptivity by the masses. It was apparently fine for us to be associated, even counted among their numbers, while we served a purpose – but this purpose was declared over by the o9a followed by a sustained campaign against THEM and Hollow.
(thetempleofthem.com)

 

[Waren_S_Gnobe]

1.

I'm inclined to agree with you here. From that perspective, the logos of the O9A is one person's evolution of the LHP perceiveration, just as the O9A seven fold way is modern expression of ancient Hellenic hermeticism and a continuation of ancient mystery traditions.

Sometimes, it's just a question of 'new terms for old'.

"The 'outer secret' of the inner, the real, the living, alchemy is that the end and the result of both our apparently separate journeys is the same; the same place, the same understanding, the same knowledge. For wisdom is undivided, the same for all of us, whatever we believed or assumed when we began. Or expressed another way, lapis philosophicus is what it is, and always has been, and does what it does, and always has done, in terms of how it affects and changes those few who have succeeded in their decades-long endeavour and thus discovered it, and discovered it where it has always been hidden."​

The above quotation, from Anton Long, is taken from the very interesting article Myatt, The Septenary Anados, And The Quest For Lapis Philosophicus.

2.

Agreed. As someone pointed out recently, he's still youngish - so IMO it's a question, for him, of self-honesty (such as admitting his mistakes and current limitations) and acquiring the practical (and, importantly, documented) experience that should produce the necessary pathei-mathos.

If we agree on 1. we essentially agree on all I had to say in context of esoterics and AL during this conversation.(?) If we agree on 2. we essentially agree on all I had to say about hollow and friends during this conversation.(?)

I'm in wonder, how we cannot agree on the fact that this 'o9a' is actually obsolete. Obviously, as we also agreed, nothing is new under the Skies. This kind of thing (hollow and friends) always happens with every genuine Tradition - i.e. regular - irregular Lodges, to use those terms.. But, is this Tradition about to fall under those "Magian", old-aeon structuring? So it uses "accepted" and not, "associated" and not, whatever - same thing. Exactly enabling this kind of phenomenon (hollow and friends) to occur from time to time.

There's only (omega) a spell AL created and (alpha) everything and anything emerged from it, or affected by it.

It just came across my mind how dr. Monette described ONA, interestingly as meta-culture..

 

[Satan's Right Hand Man]

I'm in wonder, how we cannot agree on the fact that this 'o9a' is actually obsolete.

Please allow me to be serious for a moment. This is a general response to nobody in particular.

What you guys are now dealing with are ideas and semantics, when you speak about and view something like o9a as being "obsolete," or "real," or whatever.

1. The word to "exist," means basically to have suchness in the real world in some way.

2. It can be argued that "ideas," simple "ideations," or thoughts, may not "exist" in the real world.

3. Things like o9a, Islam, Wicca, Satanism, any -ism, any -ology, any culture, the scientific method, have a suchness beyond mere ideas.

4. Even if there was only one single human being on the whole earth who identified as a Muslim, read the Holy Quran, and put the Way/Methodology/System of Islam into living practice: Islam EXISTS with observable and verifiable suchness in the world of experience and phenomena.

This principle goes for any evolved "system" that is a combination of ideas and practice. A combination of the human Mind/Thought/belief, the human Emotion/Psyche, and human Action/Deed/Praxis.

If every Cherokee Indian were to go extinct, except one Cherokee who identified as a Cherokee, kept the tradition, and put the culture into living practice, his Native American culture can be said to still "exist," because it has an observable and verifiable suchness in the every day world.

If every speaker of Chinese were to be extinct, and Chinese existed only as writing in books, if one person still spoke it, used it, expressed it somehow in the human world of experience and natural phenomena, the language still exists because it has a verifiable and observable suchness in said world.

5. It can be said semantically and on the level of working with ideas that the ONA does not exist, is not real, is obsolete; whatever. But if even one person believes in the Order of Nine Angles, identifies as being ONA, is inspired and influenced by ONA, studies the material, and puts ONA into practice as best as he/she can: then the ONA exists as an observable and verifiable suchness in the every day world of human experience and natural phenomena.

6. Regardless of how anybody views, opines, thinks of, defines, word juggles ONA: it unfortunately "exists." Exist here meaning that the Order of Nine Angles as a philosophy, world-view, tradition, coherent set of practices can be observed and verified to have suchness in the real world.

Even if some dislike the word "exist," and say that it is obsolete, or it is just the ideas and system of practice codified by Anton Long, it nevertheless has suchness in the real world, via a "nexion." Where nexion here means a person willing to believe in it, study its philosophy, and put its coherent set of practices into practice. The ONA's suchness being verifiable and observable.

The words we use are meaningless. Even without words and definitions, I can easily point at the suchness of the Order of Nine Angles as an observable and verifiable "thing" in the world of experience and natural phenomena.

AL/DM is needed... DM more than AL I would say. For the same reasons stated in this thread. DM/AL serves as an anchor to root the ONA as a system of philosophy and practice in the world and mind of its "adherent." He sets an example, or he is an example to those few who may vibe with ONA. The thing is, being human, we are better able to relate with other humans, or characters. Characters as in for example "gods" in mythology.

For instance, we are better able to relate with the god Mars, as opposed to a bunch of ideas of fighting and war etc. It's just in our nature as human beings that we learn by the example of others. If you deny this, I dare anybody to show me that a human child - and any young intelligent animal - does not learn by example of its elders/parents. I dare anybody to prove to me that a young cheetah does not learn how to be a cheetah and how to hunt from the long-time example of its mother.

Even to be "human" requires the child to be exposed to humans as an example to forge itself into. I dare anybody to prove me wrong. Go study the cases of Feral Children who did not have the example of a human to follow at a very young age.

If being HUMAN requires a new homo sapiens person to follow the example of a human, than that principle also applies to being anything else in human life: a plumber, a police officer, a priest, a soldier, a rapist, a thief, a Satanist, a Christian, an ONA person. AL/DM is a needed example for those who vibes with ONA.

 

[jeff77]

You can recognize the person by the writing style

Like because, as you said previously, they talk about the code of kindred honor and because like Mr Hollow said years ago of how they use commas; and other assumptions. You've provided no real evidence.

I know what I know

What you assume must therefore be true. I stand corrected.

How sensitive you people are

Why do you often - here - and elsewhere - detract from what I believe should be a debate about the ideas and the LHP practice put forth by people and groups by insulting and making assumption about either the person posting or about the people or group behind those ideas and the LHP practices?

you could take a look at the mirror from time to time. That would make you less hypocritical...a mouse hiding behind a lump of cheese...you so often get your panties in a bunch...

Naturally enough, you're not alone in doing this kind of thing, here and elsewhere. But wouldn't it be better if we could have discussions without pejorative comments about the poster and without people continually making assumptions without backing those assumptions up with evidence?

But I could conceivably be living in a different century from you...

 

[Curious_Cat]

Curious_Cat, don't mind Anna. She's Polish. That's the equivalent of clinical insanity.

It's best to learn about anything from the horse's mouth and from people, as opposed to random internet chatter. Anna get's most of her information about stuff from internet chatter... which will explain her delusions.

I will ignore her. Thanks

Im actually visiting melbourne first week of August, whereabouts?

 

[AnnaCzereda]

You've provided no real evidence.

Are you crazy? What evidence do you want? Do you think I work for the NSA and spy on people or something? There are things you just know. KS made hundreds of posts here, on Facebook and 600 Club. Enough to tell a difference between "her" and others.

Moreover, whenever some troll joins the Satanic forum, most of the times it's either Chloe or Meq.

Im actually visiting melbourne first week of August, whereabouts?

Please Curious Cat, have some pity on those who don't want to lose their faith in humanity.

 

[Waren_S_Gnobe]

Please allow me to be serious for a moment. This is a general response to nobody in particular.

What you guys are now dealing with are ideas and semantics, when you speak about and view something like o9a as being "obsolete," or "real," or whatever.

1. The word to "exist," means basically to have suchness in the real world in some way.

2. It can be argued that "ideas," simple "ideations," or thoughts, may not "exist" in the real world.

3. Things like o9a, Islam, Wicca, Satanism, any -ism, any -ology, any culture, the scientific method, have a suchness beyond mere ideas.

4. Even if there was only one single human being on the whole earth who identified as a Muslim, read the Holy Quran, and put the Way/Methodology/System of Islam into living practice: Islam EXISTS with observable and verifiable suchness in the world of experience and phenomena.

This principle goes for any evolved "system" that is a combination of ideas and practice. A combination of the human Mind/Thought/belief, the human Emotion/Psyche, and human Action/Deed/Praxis.

If every Cherokee Indian were to go extinct, except one Cherokee who identified as a Cherokee, kept the tradition, and put the culture into living practice, his Native American culture can be said to still "exist," because it has an observable and verifiable suchness in the every day world.

If every speaker of Chinese were to be extinct, and Chinese existed only as writing in books, if one person still spoke it, used it, expressed it somehow in the human world of experience and natural phenomena, the language still exists because it has a verifiable and observable suchness in said world.

5. It can be said semantically and on the level of working with ideas that the ONA does not exist, is not real, is obsolete; whatever. But if even one person believes in the Order of Nine Angles, identifies as being ONA, is inspired and influenced by ONA, studies the material, and puts ONA into practice as best as he/she can: then the ONA exists as an observable and verifiable suchness in the every day world of human experience and natural phenomena.

6. Regardless of how anybody views, opines, thinks of, defines, word juggles ONA: it unfortunately "exists." Exist here meaning that the Order of Nine Angles as a philosophy, world-view, tradition, coherent set of practices can be observed and verified to have suchness in the real world.

Even if some dislike the word "exist," and say that it is obsolete, or it is just the ideas and system of practice codified by Anton Long, it nevertheless has suchness in the real world, via a "nexion." Where nexion here means a person willing to believe in it, study its philosophy, and put its coherent set of practices into practice. The ONA's suchness being verifiable and observable.

The words we use are meaningless. Even without words and definitions, I can easily point at the suchness of the Order of Nine Angles as an observable and verifiable "thing" in the world of experience and natural phenomena.

AL/DM is needed... DM more than AL I would say. For the same reasons stated in this thread. DM/AL serves as an anchor to root the ONA as a system of philosophy and practice in the world and mind of its "adherent." He sets an example, or he is an example to those few who may vibe with ONA. The thing is, being human, we are better able to relate with other humans, or characters. Characters as in for example "gods" in mythology.

For instance, we are better able to relate with the god Mars, as opposed to a bunch of ideas of fighting and war etc. It's just in our nature as human beings that we learn by the example of others. If you deny this, I dare anybody to show me that a human child - and any young intelligent animal - does not learn by example of its elders/parents. I dare anybody to prove to me that a young cheetah does not learn how to be a cheetah and how to hunt from the long-time example of its mother.

Even to be "human" requires the child to be exposed to humans as an example to forge itself into. I dare anybody to prove me wrong. Go study the cases of Feral Children who did not have the example of a human to follow at a very young age.

If being HUMAN requires a new homo sapiens person to follow the example of a human, than that principle also applies to being anything else in human life: a plumber, a police officer, a priest, a soldier, a rapist, a thief, a Satanist, a Christian, an ONA person. AL/DM is a needed example for those who vibes with ONA.

Thank you for being serious for once. It was pleasing to witness it.

But essentially, neither you are talking anything new. But when you put it all like this you reveal what is only potential of ONA currently - to become a religion.

Same as in any other religion myths about its founder are crucial to ground those ideas, to be an example. So, if ONA continues down this stream, in 20 years from now will be nothing more than Telema is today, or some similar religious/mystical form. And I doubt Crowley would be impressed if he could meet some regular Telemite. Same as Jesus would despise vast number of christians , or as Muhammed would be in pain because of the Ummah killing each other..

Anyhow, I think you misunderstood my point - as some of important details are not actually mentioned, nor they are for this type of discussion

 

[Curious_Cat]

Please Curious Cat, have some pity on those who don't want to lose their faith in humanity.

do you mind elaborating?

 

[Satan's Right Hand Man]

Thank you for being serious for once. It was pleasing to witness it.

You're welcome.

But essentially, neither you are talking anything new.

You look for the "New" in the wrong places. This point of view you have - of there being nothing new under the sky - is born from a lack of understanding of how Nature works.

There is nothing new about subatomic particles. There are basically only three actually: 1) Electrons, 2) Protons, and 3) Neutrons. But the different combinations of these produces NEW elements. And the different combinations of these elements produces NEW compounds. Each compound with its own NEW and unique quality, nature. These compound combine in different ways to produce NEW molecules. In turn these molecules combine in different ways to produce NEW material "things." Such as you and I. As far as constitution goes: there is nothing new about the human being. What is NEW is the combinations of constituencies which generates NEW physis, NEW quality, NEW POTENTIAL, NEW Efficiency, NEW level of intelligence, NEW capabilities.

Same goes with foodstuff. There is no real new elemental foodstuff on earth. It's been the same old wheat, flour, milk, eggs, rice, fish, sugar etc, for thousands of years. What is NEW are the new combinations of these basic elements. Simply walk into many classy restaurants and hotels and you'll see NEW foods on the menu. Each NEW food with it's own unique quality and taste.

There are only a meager 26 letters in the English Alphabet. Nothing new there... but year after year NEW books are publishes. New essays written, producing new ideas, new thoughts, not expressions, and so on. What's new are the creative combinations a person is able to put those 26 letters into.

Same with colors. A meager 7 colors... but give those 7 colors to an artist and you have the works of Leonardo, Da Vinci, Van Gogh, etc, and so on.

If you don't understand this fractal principle in nature, then you will never understand where NEW ideas and NEW insights come from.

But when you put it all like this you reveal what is only potential of ONA currently - to become a religion.

Or to become a living Culture of a people. In most societies outside the West there is no real distinction between "religion" and culture. A cultus (latin) is a cultus. a ritus (latin) is a ritus. Mythos and Praxis is mythos and praxis regardless of what we call it. The words only points to the essence.

Some people may refer to religion with a negative tone. These people are attached to, mesmerized, enthralled by the Means to an End. The End is that culture and religion changes people and the world. If it weren't for culture and "religion" we as a species and our "civilization" would never have developed this far.

Aren't the very basic objectives of the ONA this? To change some people into types of people, and to change the human world gradually into something new?

Same as in any other religion myths about its founder are crucial to ground those ideas, to be an example. So, if ONA continues down this stream, in 20 years from now will be nothing more than Telema is today, or some similar religious/mystical form. And I doubt Crowley would be impressed if he could meet some regular Telemite. Same as Jesus would despise vast number of christians , or as Muhammed would be in pain because of the Ummah killing each other.

These are speculative sentiments. I understand what you are trying to say. But it is fallacious to take unfounded speculative sentiments and make them into facts... or worse: to allow them to affect and influence you.

We will factually never know what Jesus would think of Christianity if he were here. What we can perhaps deduce is the original intent her had when creating his Way.

Same goes with Thelema. Crowley may not like some Thelimites, but based on his diary, his attitude, and his intentions underlying his activities, he'd like how Thelema turned out, as in the large number of people inspired and influenced by his "creations." But this is, speculation based on what I've listed.