Australian Satanism and the Temple of THEM

[jeff77]

Are you crazy?

There you go again. Making assumptions about a person posting.

Objectively, I'm being reasonable.

What evidence do you want?

Actual evidence regarding your assumption about writing style. Forensic linguistics perhaps?

Without such evidence, it remains an unproven assumption by some internet person.

There are things you just know

There are many things that require evidence to substantiate them. Assumptions about a person for instance.

Also, how do you "know" that particular thing? Tarot cards, perhaps?

 

[kerriscott]

[The order of Nine Angles ] to become a living Culture of a people. In most societies outside the West there is no real distinction between "religion" and culture.

Very perspicacious about both the O9A and religion/culture. In my experience, most 'Westerners' - be they occultists or otherwise and enmeshed as they are by abstractions and denotatum - don't understand that, esoterically, there is no real distinction re 'religion' and a living culture in terms of ways of living, just as most critics of the O9A don't understand that the O9A is progressing toward becoming a culture, a way of living, if it hasn't become so already.

 

[Waren_S_Gnobe]

You're welcome.

You look for the "New" in the wrong places. This point of view you have - of there being nothing new under the sky - is born from a lack of understanding of how Nature works.

There is nothing new about subatomic particles. There are basically only three actually: 1) Electrons, 2) Protons, and 3) Neutrons. But the different combinations of these produces NEW elements. And the different combinations of these elements produces NEW compounds. Each compound with its own NEW and unique quality, nature. These compound combine in different ways to produce NEW molecules. In turn these molecules combine in different ways to produce NEW material "things." Such as you and I. As far as constitution goes: there is nothing new about the human being. What is NEW is the combinations of constituencies which generates NEW physis, NEW quality, NEW POTENTIAL, NEW Efficiency, NEW level of intelligence, NEW capabilities.
etc.

When I say there's no(thing) new, and when you say there is new, we basically agree, speaking about the same. If you don't see it, than it might be your lack of understanding after all. Or you simply failed to understand what I meant. Or you're just inventing reasons for further discussion. Or whatever.. But, ultimately I see both claims (about (non)existence of "new") to be true.

Or to become a living Culture of a people. In most societies outside the West there is no real distinction between "religion" and culture. A cultus (latin) is a cultus. a ritus (latin) is a ritus. Mythos and Praxis is mythos and praxis regardless of what we call it. The words only points to the essence.

Some people may refer to religion with a negative tone. These people are attached to, mesmerized, enthralled by the Means to an End. The End is that culture and religion changes people and the world. If it weren't for culture and "religion" we as a species and our "civilization" would never have developed this far.



These are speculative sentiments. I understand what you are trying to say. But it is fallacious to take unfounded speculative sentiments and make them into facts... or worse: to allow them to affect and influence you.

We will factually never know what Jesus would think of Christianity if he were here. What we can perhaps deduce is the original intent her had when creating his Way.

Same goes with Thelema. Crowley may not like some Thelimites, but based on his diary, his attitude, and his intentions underlying his activities, he'd like how Thelema turned out, as in the large number of people inspired and influenced by his "creations." But this is, speculation based on what I've listed.

I (We) do make distinction between religion and living culture. Our ideal of a living culture (for which ONA has a great "new" potential) is devoid of any form of religion, mysticism and so on. We see it simply like this - No living culture of new aeon needs those primitive trappings. Why? Because everything that was "occult" under the oppression of certain abstractions, should be simply lived, once this oppression is dealt with. When simply lived as simple and sinisterly-numinous way of life, this mystery needs no symbols, forms, mythos, or anything as such to vault that what is esoteric. Coming from this side this may sound contradictory. But that would be nothing new as well, right? Very few knows anything about this side, except for what is shown.

If you count in the fact that even in holy and accepted scriptures of those religions (christianity, islam, telema) you can find striking lines assigned to their creators, which are in complete opposition with majority of different sects and religions (ways of life) emerged from their teachings - than we cannot simply talk about speculative sentiments. Can we?

If you count in the fact that I was a devoted follower of some of those religions (through insight roles) we mentioned above - do you really think I have no idea what I'm talking about?

occult, magic, religion, mysticism.. we see it as obsolete equally as abstractions of state, law, group thinking under various forms serving to gather herds of masses etc. Arts and Science - that is all we see as useful. Of course if Science includes also science of inner, of Mind, of Acausal etc. All 'spirituality' should be something completely personal and intimate. Your inner journey through life. Simple as that. No need for religion, observances, blurring of one's focus, stealing one's energy needed for unfolding of a full individual potential.

Aren't the very basic objectives of the ONA this? To change some people into types of people, and to change the human world gradually into something new?

A Spell, as said.. very naively interpreted. as usually

It was pleasing also witnessing you reveal yourself actually

Slava!

 

[SinisterShadow]

God damn! I love the temple of them

 

[Waren_S_Gnobe]

Very perspicacious about both the O9A and religion/culture. In my experience, most 'Westerners' - be they occultists or otherwise and enmeshed as they are by abstractions and denotatum - don't understand that, esoterically, there is no real distinction re 'religion' and a living culture in terms of ways of living, just as most critics of the O9A don't understand that the O9A is progressing toward becoming a culture, a way of living, if it hasn't become so already.

every religion is a way of life. lived properly. For example, in Islam, from dawn 'till dusk you are following certain way of life, and observances connected with it. For example, one of the pillar of your faith is doing namaz (muslim prayer) five times a day. So, five times a day you are reminded of Allah, of values of Islam and so on. When you add to this countless daily observances, regarding behavior, way you wash yourself, way you eat, speak, or doing anything actually - it is complete way of life.

So, in this regard I can maybe understand both of you why making equal sign between religion and way of life. But for me a "religion" is a dead form - it's scriptures, mosques, countless books of various figures elaborating Qur'an and hadith, some observances and customs that lost their meaning and purpose long time ago, but are repeated and became part of that religion, becoming in time more important than said Qur'an and sunnah, in their essence.

For example I witnessed discussion over some hadith in which Muhammed is talking about how many slaves, camels one can have if ...(this or that). Is hadith genuine? Who passed it on etc.? And I was looking at them thinking: "What idiots.. how is this relevant to them, when they have no slaves, and they all saw camel once in the zoo. "

And, in time, for me Islam became something I do every day, I live everyday, not what was written or discussed or established as accepted by this or that fraction. This is the moment when I made distinction, for me personally, between religion and way of life. Simply religion being dead abstract, dead word, usually producing countless dead forms suffocating the essence, while way of life was that essence itself, sans words, sans symbols, mythos - only doing.

Why should I care how many camels first Muslim community made by Mohammed had? Why should I care whether Bilal was black or chinese when I hear Ezan and I know it's time for prayer?

Why some future o9a generation should care about any detail regarding AL's life in order to embody the essence. AL's life can be useful example of embodying some of that essence. But making AL = mysteries, or even AL = o9a is limiting, unnecessary, false and can be solely be connected with that Ego thing we talked about. Some will even rush to such a conclusion. But despite this insinuation I explained how I see "function" of AL's ego.

Maybe it is interesting to mention that o9a influenced group with which I worked for a while was holding CB as above anyone else in ONA. So, 'holy scriptures' and theoretical MSS disseminated by this group, among their associates and initiates were consisted of 80% CB material, 15% of their interpretations, maybe about 4% of WSA and similar, and only 1%, of some essential AL. So practice of 7FW within this group was done mainly enlightened by above mentioned authors.

This example can be as well as those early divisions in other religions: like shiahs in Islam, or chatolics in christianity, and so on..if we look o9a as a religion. ? Hmmm.. how that other fraction of o9a would be called than? maybe "omega" those influenced by AL, and "alpha" those influenced more by CB and similar. And maybe we can see some religious wars on this basis in the future when mutual enemies disappear. In the meantime, naturally we can see each other as servants of that mutual enemy. "Ah, those magian omegaers, we will get them!"

So, there you go. If you want to make a religion out of it, you already have your "shiahs" Ha!

I, all the same, was always more into sects, irregular lodges and stuff, as they actually erode those religions.

But beware of "shiahs" - tricky ones. More clandestine than "sunnah " ones. Hmm.. actually there's very interesting non-public MS of o9a influenced group talking in great amount about "shiahs". Ha! So, Wyrdful. Don't you think?

 

[Waren_S_Gnobe]

hahahah I just MUST share what my friend just told me.

She says that all of this is like a substitute for video-games for wise Old Farts.

I admit she's right. This can be fun, but ultimately time-wasting.

I fart away into cool summer's night. where there is only Mystery and me - nothing between..

 

[natsy]

just a quick question if you please. ,,are god and satan the same person,,eg,,one is the light and one is the dark?

 

[jeff77]

AL = o9a is limiting

AL isn't the O9A. He's the foundation on which it was built. Historically, his sole importance is - like KS and others keep reminding us - his "documented sinisterly-numinous life" which makes him an example of what the "seven fold way" is about. An occult and a personal quest for wisdom that takes decades.

that o9a influenced group with which I worked for a while was holding CB as above anyone else in ONA

Why? Unlike AL, he's never gotten beyond internal adept. Unlike AL, he's privately and latterly written to people warning them against getting involved with the ONA. Unlike AL, he's no documented history of "sinister deeds", or even "numinous deeds" come to that. Unlike AL, he's authored no scholarly works. Unlike AL, his contribution to the ONA is minimal - that "sinister tarot", a few articles saying nothing original, his internal adept diary; the kind of stuff you'd expect from an assiduous follower.

Objectively, his "sinister tarot" isn't great art. It's good, but not outstanding, occult art, artistically speaking that is. In terms of occult symbolism, his sinister tarot is very good, original, particularly from a "sinister point of view". But it lacks finesse, sometimes the quality of execution is poor. In terms of fine art, his work in general is varied in quality - his paintings of trees and landscapes are generally very good, with one or two standing out, but it's his depictions of humans and animals that let him down. Most are competent, but lifeless, lacking in character, by and large. I mean go look at his depictions of birds. Same with his portrait of Myatt - the textureless hair and drapery, the expressionless face. Moult appears to have spread his talent too thinly and maybe should have concentrated on painting trees and landscapes where he showed talent.

 

[hollow]

Temple Affiliation: Past and Present

Q: Is the Temple of THEM presently (15 July 2014) affiliated with the ONA also known as the Order of Nine Angles?

No. No it is not.

Q: Was it ever affiliated with the ONA?

It was thought so - but some speaking on behalf of ONA have since denied this affiliation was ever valid,*that it*used us (THEM) to achieve its aims of disseminating the large volume of material hollow was responsible for making widespread over the decade, and has since taken every opportunity to declare that the Temple of THEM, Hollow and company, have nothing to do with it: We are fine with this. *It has further placed the blame for its poor internet image and reception of ONA tenets by others, squarely at our feet, labelling us o9a pretendu responsible for tarnishing its image and receptivity by the masses. It was apparently fine for us to be associated, even counted among their numbers, while we served a purpose - but this purpose was declared over by the o9a followed by a sustained campaign against THEM and Hollow.

Q: Is the Temple of THEM a nexion of the ONA?

It depends on how you understand nexion. And depending on how you understand it, this can be answered yes, or no. Does it fit the description of a meeting point of an event, group or person(s) where the acausal intersects the causal? If you believe in the o9a's theory of the acausal - sure, why not.

Q: Is it an active associate in alliance with these Traditional Satanists?

No - it is not.*When at various times the Temple acknowledged the deep impact of o9a's system upon its members and referred to itself as a nexion of ONA *-this was on/off acceptable by the Order who cited us among their number as one of their nexions at numerous times or denied it in equal measure. This was further complicated by Temple founder Hollow who (as RA) at various times also claimed affiliation as a nexion and at times denied it.
THEM's views (some of which regard the o9a) have drawn hostility and scorn from some anonymous spokespersons for the ONA which accuse THEM of stealing its terms and concepts and simply renaming them.

In recent times when THEM has*acknowledged*its roots and influence lies in part with the ONA, in an attempt to give kudos, a number of anonymous*ONA spokespersons*speaking as authorities have thrown fits and called Hollow a charlatan, liar, profiteer, and everything else under the sun, in effect denying that THEM is a nexion of it and that Hollow is an o9a pretendu. They have claimed that we have nothing to do with it, ruined it, tarnished it, lied about it, pretended to be a nexion when we were in fact not one.

Contrawise,*when we*deny*that THEM has roots and influence in the ONA, referring to Lovecraft as the Father of THEM to suit these spokespersons edict of ONA's desire for distance, for instance, the number of anonymous spokespersons speaking as authorities on*ONA have again thrown fits and claimed that our history, alternate mythos and magic is "pretentious gabble" that is stolen/derives from them, the o9a.

So it seems, somewhat*to our amusement, that we can neither deny being influenced by the o9a, nor confirm it, since either claim creates drama. You, will have to decide for yourself this absurdity of the question of nexion which apparently, we cannot - but we can categorically state, that the Temple of THEM is not and, perhaps never was, part of the ONA.

We are fine with this.

Whatever our critics have to say; here we are nonetheless. Read, take, test, discard as necessary and decide for yourself the value of the Temple of THEM.

h. 2014

Exitus Aestus

The Temple of THEM and its members hereby (being 17/7/2014) formally disown the commentaries, essays, remarks, conclusions, conversations, communications, observations, statements, studies, research, claims, publications, equipment, tools, electronic media made between 2006 and the 17th July 2014 by this Temple or its various constituents including forums and presses that have anything whatsoever to do with the Order of Nine Angles/ONA/O9A, David Myatt/Anton Long or its many associates.

All mention of the aforementioned will be stricken from The Themonomicon, this publication (Threshold and pMYRIAD not withstanding) being the only official remaining Temple of THEM documentation recognized as genuine Temple literature.

All documents referring to the aforementioned prior to 17/7/2014 are formally and definitively, obselete.

ISS/h

 

[Satan's Right Hand Man]

Very perspicacious about both the O9A and religion/culture. In my experience, most 'Westerners' - be they occultists or otherwise and enmeshed as they are by abstractions and denotatum - don't understand that, esoterically, there is no real distinction re 'religion' and a living culture in terms of ways of living, just as most critics of the O9A don't understand that the O9A is progressing toward becoming a culture, a way of living, if it hasn't become so already.

My experiences are the same. If they are "Westernized" they generally don't understand that outside the West, "religion" and culture is one single continuum of a way of life and way of understanding the world and self. They can be of any race and background.

I think it's because they haven't been exposed to anything but Western society. For instance, in my own culture, there just isn't a difference at all between the practice and world-view/model of Buddhism/Brahmanism/Animism and the practice and world-view of ancient tradition, customs, rites, ceremonies, and so on. It's just one Way of Life and one Way of seeing the world and self.

Especially with something like "animism." Here in the West, "animism" is ideated to be something separate: it's own things. It is an -ism, and it had some sort of definition and meaning. In my own culture, there isn't even a word or idea for "animism," but yet the practice of it and the world-view of it is present in the culture of the people. It's simply just an aspect and element of the culture, like any other thing is an aspect of the culture.

Words are unnecessary and serve only to cause the delusion of "separateness," or compartmentalization of Life/Nature/World & Self. When it is all "one thing."

Much like the wheel of a bicycle is "One Thing." Sure it has parts and elements to it: spokes, a rim, the rubber stuff. But the wheel isn't a wheel without its spokes, or its rim, and so on.

Much like how words and ideations like "Sun," and "Light," causes the delusion of the separateness of "things." When in reality, the Sun and its Light are one Being, one spectral unity. The sun isn't a sun without its Light, and the Light has no being without its sun.

In reality - beyond the words and ideation - what we have here are 1) a set of human beings & 2) a set of practices and world-models such set of human beings express in life. Or, in other words, it's all just human beings doing human things.

 

[Satan's Right Hand Man]

occult, magic, religion, mysticism.. we see it as obsolete equally as abstractions of state, law, group thinking under various forms serving to gather herds of masses etc.

It seems you already have your mind and heart set on your views and feeling about religion. I can only then share with you my own personal views about certain things named.

Most "Westernized" people have lost touch with something important. When we see a westernized person intellectually reject things like occultism, magic, mystery, mysticism, religion, culture, etc; this is an outer symptom of a deeper cause. The cause being that most westernized people have lost touch with that important something. And since the westernized person is a cell/unit of its society, the symptom such people have affects their Western society. There is something wrong with the West. It can be felt. There is an imbalance in the Force.

In my culture's weltanschauung, there exists two different minds: the Brainmind and the Heartmind. The Brainmind is the seat of your waking self, your consciousness, your faculty of reason, your faculty of thinking and logic.

The Heartmind is called Jit/Chit which is a dialectal form of Citta/Chitta [Sanskrit]. In the West's weltanschauung, Heartmind roughly corresponds with the Psyche and the Unconscious mind. Heartmind is the seat of will, volition, emotion, and intuition.

Both minds use and speak their own set of "languages."

The language of the Brainmind are things like actual spoken language, words, ideas, thoughts, ideations, concepts, numbers, math, logic, sense based observation, and so on. These are all causal forms and exoteric languages the brainmind speaks and understands.

The Heartmind speaks and understands its own languages. Chitta is primal, primeval; having existed before the evolution of the neo-cortex. Thus it is alien to spoken language, to logic, to reason, to numbers, to letters, to words, to definitions, to ideas. Causal languages of the brainmind are alien to Heartmind.

Heartmind speaks the language of symbols, impressions, instant grasp of things, intuitive knowing, pictures, feelings, and so on. The Heartmind is the Dreamer. It is the source of our dreams when we sleep at night. That is the primeval language of Heartmind/Psyche or the Unconscious Mind. The languages the Heartmind speaks is esoteric, Essence, suchness, quiddity, qualia, psychic impressions. That's all it knows and understands.

What most Westernized people call "religious trappings" are like letters written in the esoteric, wordless language of the psyche/unconscious mind. Trappings like rites and rituals, prayer, and chants, are all symbols in motion which speaks to this primeval mind. "Mysticism" is a language of the Heatmind. Mysticism is a way by which the Heartmind apprehends its world. Whereas material science is the way by which the Brainmind apprehends its world. Magic - via the psyche or unconscious mind - connects us with the subtle current and supernal Force of Life/Nature/Cosmos.

When you throw out such things like mystery, magic, mysticism, prayer, chants, rites, rituals, ceremonies, etc, you are Dumbing or Muting Heartmind. Dumb meaning unable to speak. You get rid of this heartmind's ways of expressing itself to you, of communicating with you. And since the heartmind is the link between the mortal human being and the supernal force of Life/Cosmos, you cut yourself off from that Source, meaning you become unaware or Blind to that Living Source.

Heartmind is what the West has lost Touch with. It shows in the symptoms the Westerner exhibits: materialism, atheism, causal abstractions... there is a feeling of "deadness" in the West. People are into dead ideas, dead prophets, dead books, dead words, dead definitions, dead scientific theories. And that Western society is affected by the symoptoms of its cells/units in turn. All the Life has been squeezed out of the "Being" of Western society.

What bewilders me personally is that some westernized people might know and feel that something is wrong with the West, but yet they try to make things like ONA in the image and likeness of this same Western society. Where Heartmind and its esoteric wordless languages and means of communications are denied and thrown away, for science and technology... forgetting that Heartmind and its esoteric languages gave birth to that very same science.

What would western science be today if it weren't for flashes of intuitive insight in the scientist... symbols and representations of things in mathematical equations... the mysticism and alchemy and occult of olden days...

Rather then try to find Balance, the Westerner appears to want to go further into imbalance towards one extreme side. There is almost an air of arrogance in the West as a "civilization" where it feels that because of its science and technology, it has become so great, that it doesn't need the primitive heartmind anymore and its strange esoteric illogical languages: forgetting that it is the Heart that is the Mother of humanity and human civilization.

Anyways: I guess I'm easy to spot

Slava!

 

[Waren_S_Gnobe]

AL isn't the O9A. He's the foundation on which it was built. Historically, his sole importance is - like KS and others keep reminding us - his "documented sinisterly-numinous life" which makes him an example of what the "seven fold way" is about. An occult and a personal quest for wisdom that takes decades.

Screw it with his documented life. You doubt there are/ were more sinisterly-numinous lives out there, but not documented? In that case, you are only blind worshiper. "an occult and personal quest for wisdom that takes decades"? Wow And that's it? That's his importance. To tell us that milk is white? But in previous talk with "kerriscott" and others I explained already how and why o9a is nothing new, which "kerriscott", sort of confirmed.

In every tradition you have process usually lasting for decades. And ONA tradition might be even a joke in this regard. you cannot find everything online to compare with AL and ONA. But there are traditions in which stage of neophyte lasts for at least 5 years, during which period you have various and complex tasks to fulfill and to endure in order to show yourself worthy to be called an Initiate.

If you want to become simple orthodox monk, you have to be neophyte for 3 years.

But, honestly in all those decades you ever saw/ read AL essentially changed? No he hasn't. From the very beginning he's chewing the same old story. Like he already knew everything just was revealing it from different angles from time to time. Using ONA MSS as his magickal diary. Useful one, for sure, but as said, not much inner progress has been shown through the same. Not much growth, just widening, so to say, while stiffly glued to own creation.

Why? Unlike AL, he's never gotten beyond internal adept. Unlike AL, he's privately and latterly written to people warning them against getting involved with the ONA. Unlike AL, he's no documented history of "sinister deeds", or even "numinous deeds" come to that. Unlike AL, he's authored no scholarly works. Unlike AL, his contribution to the ONA is minimal - that "sinister tarot", a few articles saying nothing original, his internal adept diary; the kind of stuff you'd expect from an assiduous follower.

Objectively, his "sinister tarot" isn't great art. etc.

Why? because of the something you will be never able to understand, being obviously just a worshiper, repeating same story as the others. You all begin to sound like Jehova's witnesses or something like that. "Sir, do you have a minute to talk about sinisterly-numinous, and above all, documented life of AL?"

So, to you AL is not equal o9a? or AL is not equal mysteries? Are you sure you believe so? Mind your talk than - why should in such a case you use here AL to compare others with him? Or why you use one standard, of one among many orders/traditions to value someone's inner growth and progress? So if CB didn't go beyond some grade of some order in vast sea of orders, does it mean that he didn't go even further than AL? It's all like AL made up some board game with his rules and when someone gets bored of his board game he, and worshipers claim "Ha! you never passed through to the 6 lvl of my game - you suck in all other board games that are out there!"

So if CB, for example didn't follow some standards invented by some mortal he was not able to find Truth for himself? No? o9a locked it away? Or you must serve Universe with your documented deeds in order to understand it?

Interestingly, I asked the same question leader of this group. About why they respect CB more than AL. And they answered me something like:

"In Eira and similar works CB summed up and surpassed everything AL had ever to say with juggling his dry rhetoric." This was just a part of answer which was given in detail during hour long talk.

 

[Satan's Right Hand Man]

Im actually visiting melbourne first week of August, whereabouts?

Oh, that's wonderful! Hollow did you here that, she's going to be visiting our Blessed City of Melbourne. Don't forget to PM her with the "deets" Hollow.

Curious_Cat, when you come to the Holy City of THEM, you will be staying at the luxurious and opulent country villa of our Messiah, Ryan Anschauung ('alayhi as-salaam). The villa is set in a beautiful location in Melbourne overlooking a gorgeous Eucalyptus rainforest and the snow capped peaks of the Melbourne horizon.

Our Messiah asked me to ask you if you have any aversion to anal sex? Judging by my psychic senses, I bet you've had anal at least 3-4 times. Can you confirm this please?

 

[jeff77]

In Eira and similar works CB summed up and surpassed everything AL had ever to say.

I guess everyone's entitled to an opinion however ridiculous it seems to be. His works such as Eira did "sum up" some O9A material but offered nothing new and since they were a "summing up" of some early O9A material written by AL - they definitely didn't and couldn't "surpass everything" AL wrote or created. Where's the star game? The practical and detailed aspects of the seven fold way? Alchemical seasons? Esoteric chant? The rounwytha way? The sinisterly-numinous? The O9A logos? The oral tradition as per the deofel quartet? Etcetera.

You doubt there are/ were more sinisterly-numinous lives out there, but not documented?

There could be but unless you've met the person and gotten to know them and therefore verified for yourself that they're "genuine" then objectively what they may have written and what people read about them isn't - according to my way of thinking - much different from fiction or fantasy or what a fraudster might write and say about themselves.

People like LaVey, Aquino, Crowley, and DM/AL have documented lives. All of them added something new to the occult milieu and they all built upon existing material or in some manner evolved a tradition. They all had different personalities which in some manner colored the 'way' they devised. Someone here drew attention to the fact that people generally resonate with a person, with their life, more than they do with the written word - or it's the personality of someone as revealed by their documented life that leads many people to read their written words. This is particularly true in the matter of the occult and particularly true decades on from what a person wrote.

The O9A 'way' that AL devised - with its roots in Hellenic hermeticism and European pagan traditions - is evident in his life and it's that life which draws many people to the O9A, and will keep on doing so decades from now. Because his life exemplifies what a life-long sinisterly-numinous occult quest for wisdom is all about. That's his contribution. He doesn't exemplify the life of a 'satanist', however you want to define that term. He doesn't exemplify the life of someone on the LHP, however you want to define that term. He doesn't exemplify the life of a pagan, or that of a poet or that of an iconoclast, however you want to define those terms. He doesn't exemplify the life of a mystic, nor that of a neo-nazi nor that of a Catholic nor that of a Muslim nor that of a criminal.

He embodies elements of all of them - he embodies the sinisterly-numinous, i.e. of what the O9A is as a way of life, a culture. Because of this, his writings are not that important. Grasp the essence of the man, of his life, and you've understood the O9A. It's one practical and modern route to wisdom - one route among many other alternatives.

 

[Waren_S_Gnobe]

It seems you already have your mind and heart set on your views and feeling about religion. I can only then share with you my own personal views about certain things named.

Most "Westernized" people have lost touch with something important. When we see a westernized person intellectually reject things like occultism, magic, mystery, mysticism, religion, culture, etc; this is an outer symptom of a deeper cause. The cause being that most westernized people have lost touch with that important something. And since the westernized person is a cell/unit of its society, the symptom such people have affects their Western society. There is something wrong with the West. It can be felt. There is an imbalance in the Force.

You may know me a bit better than others around here. Do you think I reject those things "intellectually"? And on top of that you see me as 'westernized'?
Oh.. But never mind that. I rejected it not "intellectually" I rejected it after experiencing it, and living it (if you ever bothered to read my previous posts), devoid of intellectual vivisection, just doing - meditation. The same can be said about me and o9a, and all o9a groups I worked with, I guess. But I reject no "spirituality" I simply reject any apology for it being organized, prescribed, (self)imposed. Only Truth is ever-personal. And o9a is "anarchistic" and "leaderless" as my grandpa's partizan group, which lost 2/3 of their men crossing cold river in January at command of their drunken officer.

What most Westernized people call "religious trappings" are like letters written in the esoteric, wordless language of the psyche/unconscious mind. Trappings like rites and rituals, prayer, and chants, are all symbols in motion which speaks to this primeval mind. "Mysticism" is a language of the Heatmind. Mysticism is a way by which the Heartmind apprehends its world. Whereas material science is the way by which the Brainmind apprehends its world. Magic - via the psyche or unconscious mind - connects us with the subtle current and supernal Force of Life/Nature/Cosmos.

When you throw out such things like mystery, magic, mysticism, prayer, chants, rites, rituals, ceremonies, etc, you are Dumbing or Muting Heartmind. Dumb meaning unable to speak. You get rid of this heartmind's ways of expressing itself to you, of communicating with you. And since the heartmind is the link between the mortal human being and the supernal force of Life/Cosmos, you cut yourself off from that Source, meaning you become unaware or Blind to that Living Source.

Heartmind is what the West has lost Touch with. It shows in the symptoms the Westerner exhibits: materialism, atheism, causal abstractions... there is a feeling of "deadness" in the West. People are into dead ideas, dead prophets, dead books, dead words, dead definitions, dead scientific theories. And that Western society is affected by the symoptoms of its cells/units in turn. All the Life has been squeezed out of the "Being" of Western society.

You're also telling me that milk is white? Just some posts ago I was basically talking about the same problem of the West. You just are using different terminology to educate me on the same. (??)

I simply think that religion/ mysticism is the one actually dumbing your Heartmind. It is an obstacle between your Heartmind and Universe/Nature. It separates you from something which is simple as breathing itself, making it appear complicated. Dead ends. It is true that some may stumble upon the Truth chasing those dead ends, but those are rare. Most of them just end up trapped, serving collective destiny, with no hope of ever re-connecting, re-ligare. But, in all fairness "religare" can also translate as "to bind, to tie", which would better describe religion. It was actually invented to bind you and disable this re-connecting. Labyrinthos Mythologicus between you and very simple Truth.

Mostly religions led to this dead state in the West you're talking about. Those who went on studying true nature concealed by lies of religion, revealed that all is simple, but they had to ran for symbols and secret sciences in order to avoid oppression of religion. Heartmind, and its communication with this simple truth is actually wordless and formless, and that's what's esoteric, symbols etc. are exoteric form communicating to Brainmind that what is esoteric and Known by Heartmind.

What would western science be today if it weren't for flashes of intuitive insight in the scientist... symbols and representations of things in mathematical equations... the mysticism and alchemy and occult of olden days...

As you said correctly - olden days. And exactly why I claim -obsolete. It fulfilled its purpose, if we look at it from this angle. Those olden days are gone. Most of what was once hidden "occult" now is known, revealed, both concerning Science of the outer and of the Inner, of causal and acausal. We made starting point long time ago, but we, had yet to catch up with ourselves. As those early scientists used occult to avoid oppresion of religion in the West, there are some today using this occult to support further existence of religion and oppresion of abstractions. Also, to some it is only fetish, a role-play they are attached to. All of that occult was science of olden days - later on confused with what was actually characterization imposed by religion - it's magick, Satanism, communion with some super natural forces and beings in order to gain knowledge and power. Of course this religious myth, this spell, worked becoming reality. And who serves western religion better than Satan and his worshipers and right hand's? But Satan is also out there. Also exoteric, came into being, becoming Gate wide-opened. Esoteric work of centuries succeeded. He is super-star. Satanism is mainstream. There are those who are loyal only to Eternal Antithesis standing against everything and all, seeing it as their legacy and tool of perfection Universe use. For example, If our views prevail we will try and erode them. If your views prevail, we'll just do the same. This Eternal Antithesis wore mask of Satan in those olden days. Now he is thesis to be confronted.

Anyways: I guess I'm easy to spot

Slava!

And I told you what about that amount of reasoning? Ha!

Thanks for sharing your views and not being Jehova's witness on me.

 

[Waren_S_Gnobe]

I guess everyone's entitled to an opinion however ridiculous it seems to be. His works such as Eira did "sum up" some O9A material but offered nothing new and since they were a "summing up" of some early O9A material written by AL - they definitely didn't and couldn't "surpass everything" AL wrote or created. Where's the star game? The practical and detailed aspects of the seven fold way? Alchemical seasons? Esoteric chant? The rounwytha way? The sinisterly-numinous? The O9A logos? The oral tradition as per the deofel quartet? Etcetera.

All of this ran over by Eira and similar, in respectful opinion of this group. Made obsolete all those exoteric details and aspects, board-games, robes, rings, trifles and "things".. If someone gives you electric guitar with digital, no-cable plugin than you don't ask that someone - "excuse me - where's the cable?"

There could be but unless you've met the person and gotten to know them and therefore verified for yourself that they're "genuine" then objectively what they may have written and what people read about them isn't - according to my way of thinking - much different from fiction or fantasy or what a fraudster might write and say about themselves.

Well, I never met AL in person. Everything documented speaks only tiny bit of who he really is, and naturally it is arranged by his witnesses to support certain mythos. So, ultimately it can be even called forgery, a fraud. How can I know anything about all other details of his life that were not interesting in context of supporting this mythos? Hm? I mean, I can know, but cannot document it. All the same, not interested - not into your game. But, honestly I think I wouldn't like spending much time with him, nor I ever liked idea. He's boring as hell. Too serious.

People like LaVey, Aquino, Crowley, and DM/AL have documented lives. All of them added something new to the occult milieu and they all built upon existing material or in some manner evolved a tradition. They all had different personalities which in some manner colored the 'way' they devised. Someone here drew attention to the fact that people generally resonate with a person, with their life, more than they do with the written word - or it's the personality of someone as revealed by their documented life that leads many people to read their written words. This is particularly true in the matter of the occult and particularly true decades on from what a person wrote.

They have documented lives because they shocked people, and this was good for publicity or for frighting poor little mundanes with those boogeymen. Also very good to have such charismatic devils to keep church in business. Isn't it?

It is simply spirit of this time that puts great accent on such things, like documented lives of occult-stars, just like when it comes to any other star in last two centuries. And all of them were shocking in times when it's not a big of a deal actually, or when it is even very much popular, being that satan himself was becoming super-star. All except for Crowley who actually created this safe atmosphere for those other three.

But I don't care - as said , it's spirit of this time and they are the product of this time. (Un)important as anything else in this interconnected Universe. I don't care, because they are only Gates of Tmina, manifested in accordance to time and space they occupy.

Great Initiates of some other traditions, done unbelievable things, 10 times greater than all of the four mentioned above. But their names stayed forever secret, and their deeds never documented, as they were the one's opening those Gates as they are, so they can steal focus and draw energy into and through the Gate.

The O9A 'way' that AL devised - with its roots in Hellenic hermeticism and European pagan traditions - is evident in his life and it's that life which draws many people to the O9A, and will keep on doing so decades from now. Because his life exemplifies what a life-long sinisterly-numinous occult quest for wisdom is all about. That's his contribution. He doesn't exemplify the life of a 'satanist', however you want to define that term. He doesn't exemplify the life of someone on the LHP, however you want to define that term. He doesn't exemplify the life of a pagan, or that of a poet or that of an iconoclast, however you want to define those terms. He doesn't exemplify the life of a mystic, nor that of a neo-nazi nor that of a Catholic nor that of a Muslim nor that of a criminal.

So, why should he be more important in this regard than some simple ancient symbol or glyph transmitting all of this with no need for an example? So, he is important as much as that old, famous drawing of Azoth describing whole 7-fold alchemical process? or as much as simple drawing of ToW? For such educational purposes even fictional character to serve as an example can be enough. If I want to exemplify to someone this process, I can all together invent some character and his life that would be more ideal that that of AL.
Yea, he just figured it out formula is universal you can apply it anywhere. Woohoo. Milk is white. Sure he had fun, and made good example. Things were known 5000 years prior to his appearance. So, what?

He embodies elements of all of them - he embodies the sinisterly-numinous, i.e. of what the O9A is as a way of life, a culture. Because of this, his writings are not that important. Grasp the essence of the man, of his life, and you've understood the O9A. It's one practical and modern route to wisdom - one route among many other alternatives.

Simply - sinisterly-numinous is ALL, ALL is ONE, everything he done was making transparent layers glued over this. Many done it before, but it was a secret, 'occult" passed on from mouth to ear. But many things, as said, are out there in the open for some time now, even prior to AL. this makes it all obsolete.

I did reply, but not because of you, as you are obviously some Old Fart AL's witness, with no hope of getting it - and you are as well on my list of eternally ignored from now on.

Peace and Love

 

[kerriscott]

Temple Affiliation: Past and Present.........

The self-honesty required of an Adept - and which honesty in private and in public is one of things (at least in the O9A way) that distinguishes an Adept - is most conspicuous by its absence.

For your statement is an example of the spin a politician might indulge in after he's been caught-out and wants to undertake some damage-limitation in the hope of saving his career. The politician doesn't admit liability; doesn't mention his mistakes. Doesn't come clean. Instead, the blame is shifted elsewhere, and some propaganda/disinformation is added for good measure in the hope of confusing the proles.

"labelling us o9a pretendu responsible for tarnishing its image and receptivity by the masses."

The campaign was against you, in person, because of your claims to be O9A and to run an O9A nexion, and which campaign was mostly undertaken by me, and there was no mention of you "having tarnished the image" of the O9A.

The campaign centered on you being an example of an O9A pretender because of your behavior, in public and via private communications, toward certain O9A folk, and because of your lack of knowledge about the O9A. That was all. That behavior and that lack of knowledge was proven - and even admitted by you at one point - so it was QED.

But do carry on with the spin.

here we are nonetheless

There is no proven "we" - just you.

So I guess that you now don't want to meet up in the mid-East and enjoy the particular kind of hospitality that one finds in such lands?!

 

[hollow]

I've merely learned that nothing I might do or say will be good enough for the o9a. Goodbye.

 

[jeff77]

Great Initiates of some other traditions, done unbelievable things, 10 times greater than all of the four mentioned above. But their names stayed forever secret, and their deeds never documented, as they were the one's opening those Gates as they are, so they can steal focus and draw energy into and through the Gate.

Whatever. Mr Hollow is obviously one of those "hidden masters", don't you know.

and you are as well on my list of eternally ignored from now on

Meh.

You go to the railroad station, maybe with a particular destination in mind, maybe not, and you buy a ticket to somewhere. You go to the "right" platform and get on the "right" train to that somewhere. There's a journey. You get off the train somewhere. That's it. The journey and that somewhere might be interesting and useful in terms of experience and learning. Or not.

If your railroad station or train or journey - or "their" journey - to somewhere isn't the same as mine then so what? Enjoy your journey, for I'm sure enjoying mine.

 

[AnnaCzereda]

The Temple of THEM and its members hereby (being 17/7/2014) formally disown the commentaries, essays, remarks, conclusions, conversations, communications, observations, statements, studies, research, claims, publications, equipment, tools, electronic media made between 2006 and the 17th July 2014 by this Temple or its various constituents including forums and presses that have anything whatsoever to do with the Order of Nine Angles/ONA/O9A, David Myatt/Anton Long or its many associates.

All mention of the aforementioned will be stricken from The Themonomicon, this publication (Threshold and pMYRIAD not withstanding) being the only official remaining Temple of THEM documentation recognized as genuine Temple literature.

All documents referring to the aforementioned prior to 17/7/2014 are formally and definitively, obselete.

Excuse me? How can you disown eight years of your work, writings and contributions? It's like admitting you wasted eight years of your life on... nothing. Double facepalm.

I've merely learned that nothing I might do or say will be good enough for the o9a.

Oh I didn't get a pat on the back. Poor me. Hilarious how many of the so called "Satanists" badly need other people's approval.

You keep kicking a ball at your own goal post.