Avi's Spiritual and Religious Journey - Part 2

[metis]

According to Wikipedia Progressive Judaism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - both of you are sort of correct depending on what you point to historically.

Feel free to tell me I'm wrong.

You're wrong. Both of them are wrong. I'm the only one that's right. BTW, what are we talking about?

 

[sun rise]

You're wrong. Both of them are wrong. I'm the only one that's right. BTW, what are we talking about?

Something about Judaism and the meaning of the word "liberal" - perfect fodder for a classical debate. We just need to finish the step I started with everyone quoting their favorite references to get to the next phase of the discussion.

 

[Levite]

Of course...and you speak for all Conservative and liberal Jews !!

Sure, because I always claim that the Conservative movement is the only one free of errors.

Oh, wait, I don't do that. Not with any movement or community or individual.

I guess it must be someone else around here who makes egregious and foundationless generalizations....

 

[Avi1001]

You're wrong. Both of them are wrong. I'm the only one that's right. BTW, what are we talking about?

If we are discussing where to have this years holiday party...Levite wants to have it in the Chatroom, and I want to do it here on "Avi's Thread". But one thing we agree on.....is.....Mrs. Metis is supplying the linguini and meatballs....

 

[sun rise]

We are discussing where to have this years holiday party...Levite wants to have it in the Chatroom, and I want to do it here on "Avi's Thread". But one thing we agree on.....is.....Mrs. Metis is supplying the linguini and meatballs....

Who's supplying the (Kosher) "pigs in a blanket", gefilte fish, kugel and sponge cake?

 

[Avi1001]

....I guess it must be someone else around here who makes egregious and foundationless generalizations....

I beg your pardon...my "egregious generalizations".....are based on the foundation that your conservative dogma....is indeed ...not liberal.....

 

[Avi1001]

Who's supplying the (Kosher) "pigs in a blanket", gefilte fish, kugel and sponge cake?

Hehe....I think we found some good ideas for contributions by...Mrs. Sunrise....I'm starting to get hungry already .....

 

[metis]

If we are discussing where to have this years holiday party...Levite wants to have it in the Chatroom, and I want to do it here on "Avi's Thread". But one thing we agree on.....is.....Mrs. Metis is supplying the linguini and meatballs....

Nah, no meatballs. Instead how about her uncooked marinara sauce heavily laced with garlic and basil? Besides tasting delicious, it keeps vampires away as well.

 

[Levite]

I beg your pardon...my "egregious generalizations".....are based on the foundation that your conservative dogma....is indeed ...not liberal.....

Oh. Then that's just incorrect. My mistake.

 

[Avi1001]

Topic: Creation Ex Nihilo

Is it possible that the universe came "out of nothing" ? Is it possible the universe came from no where ? Is it possible the universe came from nothing ?

These are topics being studied by the most accomplished scientists of our day. The last person I would ask this question to...is a Rabbi. If he is honest....he will say he has no idea.

Stephan Hawking has spent a great of effort dealing with this topic...and has concluded indeed...that there is no need to refer to a G-d to explain the creation of the universe. Here is the NY Times review on Hawking's book:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/08/books/08book.html?_r=0

Please let us know if you have any questions......

 

[Avi1001]

Topic: Are the Torah Laws about Morality

Of course. This is the only possible logical reason for laws. Any other laws would be mumbo jumbo.

Some of the Rabbi's do not understand this. They are mumbo jumbo Rabbi's.

 

[sun rise]

Topic: Are the Torah Laws about Morality

Of course. This is the only possible logical reason for laws. Any other laws would be mumbo jumbo.

Some of the Rabbi's do not understand this. They are mumbo jumbo Rabbi's.

I assume you're referring to the Mitzvot? Certainly some are but some are not. What has this to do with morality: That every person shall write a scroll of the Torah for himself (Deut. 31:19) (CCA15).

And there are many others like unto that one:

1. That the Court shall pass sentence of death by decapitation with the sword (Ex. 21:20; Lev. 26:25) (affirmative).
   That the Court shall pass sentence of death by strangulation (Lev. 20:10) (affirmative).
   That the Court shall pass sentence of death by burning with fire (Lev. 20:14) (affirmative).
   That the Court shall pass sentence of death by stoning (Deut. 22:24) (affirmative).
   To hang the dead body of one who has incurred that penalty (Deut. 21:22) (affirmative).
   That the dead body of an executed criminal shall not remain hanging on the tree over night (Deut. 21:23) (negative).

   
   I got them from here: Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

 

[Avi1001]

We could debate whether or not those quotes can be traced to moral imperatives....I believe they can.

But lets examine the contrapositive....G-d says....lets all party...and get naked....in your opinion, is that what the Rabbi's believe Torah is about...?

I assume you're referring to the Mitzvot? Certainly some are but some are not. What has this to do with morality: That every person shall write a scroll of the Torah for himself (Deut. 31:19) (CCA15).

And there are many others like unto that one:

1. 
   
   I got them from here: Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

 

[sun rise]

We could debate whether or not those quotes can be traced to moral imperatives....I believe they can.

But lets examine the contrapositive....G-d says....lets all party...and get naked....in your opinion, is that what the Rabbi's believe Torah is about...?

I would be very hesitant to ascribe any opinion to Rabbis in general given the vast differences in theology. But I could argue that some would say "Let's all party (dance and sing) and make our souls naked before G-d"

 

[Avi1001]

Very nice sentiments, Sunrise....and I will further argue that those that believe that message, should see a moral and ethical vision behind it. But there are no doubt some Rabbi's that will claim the laws have no ethical and moral underpinning....they believe G-d created Torah on a whim...those are the mumbo jumbo Rabbi's.

I would be very hesitant to ascribe any opinion to Rabbis in general given the vast differences in theology. But I could argue that some would say "Let's all party (dance and sing) and make our souls naked before G-d"

 

[sun rise]

Very nice sentiments, Sunrise....and I will further argue that those that believe that message, should see a moral and ethical vision behind it. But there are no doubt some Rabbi's that will claim the laws have no ethical and moral underpinning....they believe G-d created Torah on a whim...those are the mumbo jumbo Rabbi's.

Do you have a reference to the writings of one such Rabbi?

 

[Avi1001]

Do you have a reference to the writings of one such Rabbi?

Are you trying to bring on a whale attack ......

 

[sun rise]

Are you trying to bring on a whale attack ......

I'm asking if you're attacking straw men Rabbis or Rabbis you can point to so I can read what you are referring to.

 

[Avi1001]

I'm asking if you're attacking straw men Rabbis or Rabbis you can point to so I can read what you are referring to.

They are Rabbi's I can point to....but if I do so I will be eaten by the whales........do you want to see me wind up in the belly of Moby Dick....?...

But let me clarify.....since you seem sincerely interested in this topic.....or...are you just kibitzing?........what I am saying is that it would be illogical to have any body of laws that are not tied to some ethical and moral principles.....but I believe many in Rabbinic Judaism believe this is not the case....for example...they cite kashrut....and say this is G-d's will....for no reason at all....much the same...we should follow Rabbinic law...for no reason.....just because they say so...would you like me to provide Talmudic references ??

 

[Avi1001]

Topic: Vegetarianism and Judaism

It is clear that vegetarianism is the moral and ethical way to go...
and is therefore more consistent with Judaism...particularly....reform Judaism. If anyone does not understand why this is the case....we will be pleased to explain further.