You're right, the second time around when I put the whole thing in quotes, it did pop up.
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Awareness of existence
- Thread starter Paul65
- Start date
You're welcome!
But is it the time that makes the transformation... or the "effort" which a person puts in whilst time is elapsing?
I mean would putting a wicked criminal in a prison cell for a long time transform him or her into a good person? Or would the transformation actually be more due to them having had time in which to re-evaluate their life, for instance?
I mean, you could look such a person up in a cell for a long time and they could do nothing but watch TV - how then would that experience make them a better person? They'd have had the time but there'd have been no effort
I put it to you that it is the effort/experience that one invests/has whilst time elapses that can transform a person - not the time itself, you seem to say this yourself when you said "they just need to make the effort"
I don't get why you've latched onto time, this makes little sense to me
So they are evil because they cause suffering. That's what I was getting at
You could have said they are evil because they were caused by some kind of evil entity, that's why I asked
I am trying to understand where you are coming from
The Water Offering?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Your beliefs are similar to those of another member of this forum @Bird123.
I am not so optimistic because I believe people have free will, so they have to choose to be good, and not all people will do so.
I don't think it is just a matter of time, and time will change people. I think people have to be aware and make an effort to change.
Secret Chief
Vetted Member
That's good to know. So why do you think Bahais do it, it seems to me it's required so all the "proper" religions can be squished into the Bahai narrative.
Secret Chief
Vetted Member
No, not more insults. A description of the reality. If an atheist (random choice) told you that your understanding of Bahai was wrong would you say oh cheers for that I don't know what I was thinking. No, if it was relentless "explaining" most would likely eventually consider it patronising, arrogant and insulting.
Strewth, as the Aussies say. Tribal religions? Not heard that one before. One significant possibility is that (for Buddhism as an example) it is not a revealed religion to be taken literally. There are many paths (between and within religions and none), some suit some travellers, some suit others. This does not have to mean they are wrong. There are, for instance, considerable differences between Theravada and Zen. This means they are significantly likely "wrong" then? No, it does not.
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Secret Chief
Vetted Member
Perhaps you could tell some of your friends
Paul65
Member
It's the same with destiny; some claim it doesn't exist because we control our own lives, while others argue that there is destiny. Where is the truth?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I think that certain Baha'is do it because they believe they have to save the world, and that only by everyone following the counsels of Baha'ullah can that be achieved.
I think that is rather short-sighted. If this world is going to be saved we all need to work together and respect our differences, rather than trying to squish everyone into the Baha'i narrative. I love that word squish, whoever invented it.
Sadly, I think Baha'is in the Baha'i community tend to live in their own little world, which is understandable if they only associate with other Baha'is, but after being on this forum for a number of years I would hope for better than that.
I believe that destiny exists and I'd define it as the plan God has for us all and for each of us in particular
But I also believe that we do have some control over our lives, I believe all humans have free will
I don't think it's an either/or thing
People can have agency and God can have plans!
But we all hold an anti-Baha'i agenda. lol. Either that or we're able to discern marketing strategies when we see them. I need to go back to landscaping. I wish spring was here. Less time to waste here.
Paul65
Member
In the spiritual world, the sun is a planet, and I come from the Sun.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I think it is a combination of the two. I think we have free will so we have some control over our lives, but free will is circumscribed by many factors, and one of those factors is fate and predestination which is determined by God.
Hi @Paul65
Since you seem to express an interest in the Baha'i teachings there is some things i feel you should be informed about;
1. Baha'i teachings do contradict science in certain instances in my view, for example Baha'u'llah says that copper left molten in its mine for 70 years will become gold:
'For instance, consider the substance of copper. Were it to be protected in its own mine from becoming solidified, it would, within the space of seventy years, attain to the state of gold'
Source: Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Íqán, Pages 121-160
Also where the results of the scientific method contradict Baha'i teachings Baha'i are instructed by Shoghi Effendi to choose the Baha'i teachings over science in my view:
'You see our whole approach to each matter is based on the belief that God sends us divinely inspired Educators; what they tell us is fundamentally true, what science tells us today is true; tomorrow may be entirely changed to better explain a new set of facts.'
Source: Bahá'í Reference Library - Arohanui: Letters from Shoghi Effendi to New Zealand, Pages 85-86
Then there is a matter of God revealing Godself to a person through any other means than through Baha'u'llah for the next 840 or so years;
'Whoso layeth claim to a Revelation direct from God, ere the expiration of a full thousand years, such a man is assuredly a lying impostor.'
Source:
Since you seem to express an interest in the Baha'i teachings there is some things i feel you should be informed about;
1. Baha'i teachings do contradict science in certain instances in my view, for example Baha'u'llah says that copper left molten in its mine for 70 years will become gold:
'For instance, consider the substance of copper. Were it to be protected in its own mine from becoming solidified, it would, within the space of seventy years, attain to the state of gold'
Source: Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Íqán, Pages 121-160
Also where the results of the scientific method contradict Baha'i teachings Baha'i are instructed by Shoghi Effendi to choose the Baha'i teachings over science in my view:
'You see our whole approach to each matter is based on the belief that God sends us divinely inspired Educators; what they tell us is fundamentally true, what science tells us today is true; tomorrow may be entirely changed to better explain a new set of facts.'
Source: Bahá'í Reference Library - Arohanui: Letters from Shoghi Effendi to New Zealand, Pages 85-86
Then there is a matter of God revealing Godself to a person through any other means than through Baha'u'llah for the next 840 or so years;
'Whoso layeth claim to a Revelation direct from God, ere the expiration of a full thousand years, such a man is assuredly a lying impostor.'
Source:
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
How would you like it if all the Baha'is held an anti-Hinduism agenda?
We don't.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Not to worry. He has his own religion so he won't become a Baha'i.
I meant where you are coming from as in what beliefs you have.....
But that's interesting
I see from from this and your website that you believe that you are unlike all other people, that you are special
I used to believe that, I used to believe all manner of odd stuff but thankfully going on RF helped me knock all that out of my system
But it can be a very strong and compelling thing to feel, I understand that
So, you're saying that it's possible for people to originate from the Sun?????
I hear it can get quite hot there at this time of year!
Nor do we, and that was my point. How are you?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Then what did you mean when you said "But we all hold an anti-Baha'i agenda?"
I am getting by but it has been rough since my husband of 37 years passed on last year, as I have no children or other family.
I can take care of business matters by myself but it can be lonely and disheartening thinking of being alone for the rest of my life.
I could sure use a handyman, a landscaper, and a tree service man. Even when it is sunny outside I can never see the sun because my house is shrouded in trees! The other day I saw 'part' of the full moon through the trees since the leaves are starting to fall.
It was sarcasm. Sorry you didn't catch that. On RF, back when I was more fully engaged, I was accused of having an anti-Bahai agenda by a Baha'i adherent here. Nothing could be further from the truth. Mere disagreement with philosophy, or portrayal doesn't mean it's anti. But it was a defensive overreaction on his part, I guess. You're the first Baha'i I've discussed anything with in at least a year, and I hesitated to start this, but thought I'd give it another shot.
But I have a cat question for you. My daughter has 3 cats, and one is a selfish aggressive pig, eating wise, and is getting rather fat. So now she (my daughter) is trying to find a way to feed all of her pets fairly so they all get food. Have you ever had a really dominant cat that tried to hog all the food, and what did you do about it, if anything?
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