Baha'i and Messengers

[Truthseeker]

A person who keeps giving ridiculous responses can either get used to lol,
or, try to do better.

You just don't care, do you? Goodbye.

 

[F1fan]

God does have a plan to reverse it, and eventually it will be achieved through the teachings of Baha'u'llah.

Why haven't you guys posted it?

I do not know how or when it will be achieved, but that what God has ordained always comes to pass.

So you don't really know of any plan.

Obviously more people will have to embrace the Baha'i vision of unity before it can become a reality.

And if they prefer their own religion? That makes your vision of God a failure, and you wrong in trusting the Messengers.

 

[CG Didymus]

Then you should not say that you accept other religions as they are all corrupted.

It's so easy for Baha'is to say they believe in all the messengers of God, but then turn around and say that the religion corrupted and lost the original teachings. But then with most all the messengers they don't believe that the stories about them are true. So, the only thing they are believing about them is what their own religion says about them. And, of course, that they all taught about and came from the same God. The God they can't prove, but that they know is real because of the messengers.

 

[Truthseeker]

Okay, did Jesus say this?

Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” Luke 24:39
​

Since Baha'is don't believe Jesus physically came back to life, then I'd imagine that Baha'is don't believe that Jesus could have possibly said this. And it that is true, then what else did the gospel writers make up and add in? Here's a quote...

We cannot be sure how much or how little of the four Gospels are accurate and include the words of Christ and His undiluted teachings, all we can be sure of, as Bahá’ís, is that what has been quoted by Bahá’u’lláh and the Master must be absolutely authentic. As many times passages in the Gospel of St. John are quoted we may assume that it is his Gospel and much of it accurate.

Shoghi Effendi, Extracts From The Bahá’í Writings And From Letters Of The Guardian And The Universal House Of Justice On The Old And New Testaments​

I can believe that things in the Bible aren't true. I just don't believe that historical events described in the Bible are said by Baha'is to be symbolic. I think the writers told of these events as if that is exactly what happened. Things like the resurrection of Jesus or him walking on water. Or Moses parting the seas or Elijah calling down fire. I think they lose their impact if everybody was told and knew that these stories were fictional and only had a "deep" spiritual symbolic meaning to them.

This all has no bearing on the basic ethics and morality of Christianity or Judaism. All of the religions have the same spiritual message, but not the same dogma by the followers.

 

[F1fan]

I say that I believe the other religions that were revealed by Messengers of God, but I do not accept how the leaders and followers of those religion misinterpreted scriptures and corrupted those religions after they were revealed.

It's odd that God sent messengers to start other religions only to have to eliminate them to create unity. How is that supposed to happen without war and cultural collapse?

 

[F1fan]

It's so easy for Baha'is to say they believe in all the messengers of God, but then turn around and say that the religion corrupted and lost the original teachings. But then with most all the messengers they don't believe that the stories about them are true. So, the only thing they are believing about them is what their own religion says about them. And, of course, that they all taught about and came from the same God. The God they can't prove, but that they know is real because of the messengers.

And the quotes of the Messengers are not very impressive. There's a serious lack of plans and information for a group that says they will unify the planet.

 

[F1fan]

This all has no bearing on the basic ethics and morality of Christianity or Judaism. All of the religions have the same spiritual message,

And what consistent message is this?

but not the same dogma by the followers.

So why is that allowed by God? Shouldn't it have known better?

And if you want to blame humans, these are the same humans you trust are going to abandon their dogma and create unity?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Now you can retort with "They are all Messengers of God" which means we can look at who fits your list of characteristics and it includes Hitler. It includes Napoleon. It includes many dictators, and even some good people

See below.

This doesn't mesh with your claim of God's goals of unity

That is because it had nothing to do what I offered. That was your mind and not what a Messenger of God comes to do.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What Baha'i and its messengers don't do is offer a realistic plan for unity. God allowed humans to become diverse in religious belief, and has no plans to reverse this, right?

Tell me what you know about the plans for peace given by Baha'u'llah?

There is a very realistic plan.

Regards Tony

 

[lukethethird]

Tell me what you know about the plans for peace given by Baha'u'llah?

There is a very realistic plan.

Regards Tony

The plan is no one will be allowed to socialize over a drink and no sex outside of marriage and no homosexuals.

regards,

lukethethird

 

[Trailblazer]

Why haven't you guys posted it?

So you don't really know of any plan.

It is not something I can post on a forum post, it is too big. You can read about it in various Baha'i texts, such as The World Order of Bahá’u’lláh.

And if they prefer their own religion? That makes your vision of God a failure, and you wrong in trusting the Messengers.

By the time the religions unite people will choose to embrace a new religion, one common faith. That seems impossible now, but this won't happen for a very long time. Of course, it could happen sooner than I think, if God intervenes and speeds things up.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Luckily RF has a very handy feature that I will now start using, maybe it is time to go, but let's try that feature first.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

It's odd that God sent messengers to start other religions only to have to eliminate them to create unity. How is that supposed to happen without war and cultural collapse?

By the time it happens humans will be in a different place spiritually, so they will no longer be attached to the older religions. I think it will be a gradual change, not a sudden one. Humanity did not become divided overnight so humanity will not unify overnight.

 

[lukethethird]

By the time it happens humans will be in a different place spiritually, so they will no longer be attached to the older religions. I think it will be a gradual change, not a sudden one. Humanity did not become divided overnight so humanity will not unify overnight.

You're talking what, 10 or 20 thousand years in the future?

 

[Aupmanyav]

This all has no bearing on the basic ethics and morality of Christianity or Judaism. All of the religions have the same spiritual message, ..

As I have always said ethics and morality belong to the society. Religions have only plagiarized them, stolen them, and are selling them as their own. Do they have a copy-right?

 

[Trailblazer]

You're talking what, 10 or 20 thousand years in the future?

No, not that long... Maybe about 1000 years from now a new world order will be in place but humanity will continue to progress after that, for all of time.

 

[Spirit of Light]

As I have always said ethics and morality belong to the society. Religions have only plagiarized them, stolen them, and are selling them as their own. Do they have a copy-right?

It could be the other way around, that society saw that religious guidelines actually was good, and incorporated in to society long time ago.

 

[Spirit of Light]

No, not that long... Maybe about 1000 years from now a new world order will be in place but humanity will continue to progress after that, for all of time.

If we look at history, no society has lasted for ever, even for me who like Baha'i teachings, it seems impossible that society will not change in the future as it has done in the past

 

[Aupmanyav]

That is because it had nothing to do what I offered.

What you and your Allah's messengers are reported to have offered does not suit humanity. That is every one of them is a failure. You only create problems by starting new religions all the time. After Bahaollah it was Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. World peace will not come through dominance of one religion. It seems this is not any God's design but the devil's design.

There is a very realistic plan.

Yeah, many of the members here and myself have studied it. It is a most utopian plan, you can say an arm-chair plan, which ha no relevance to what the world is. Peace under Bahaollah's banner!

By the time the religions unite people will choose to embrace a new religion, one common faith. That seems impossible now, but this won't happen for a very long time. Of course, it could happen sooner than I think, if God intervenes and speeds things up.

Nothing other than silly dreams. There is no God to intervene. It is an all-round negation of reality.

 

[Aupmanyav]

It could be the other way around, that society saw that religious guidelines actually was good, and incorporated in to society long time ago.

It did not happen that way, Seeker of White Light. Social rules are present even among animals. The society is changing all the time. That is why there are atheists and apatheists who don't care about religions or Gods.