Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
I believe in Abrahamic God, and I am free, actually a lot more free than before.
Not in the sense of freedom you see as free maybe, but I am free
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Baha'i and Messengers
- Thread starter ppp
- Start date
Not in the sense of freedom you see as free maybe, but I am free
KWED
Scratching head, scratching knee
How does one gain faith and belief in a god that doesn't exist?
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
Because we are fallen, only by recognizing God from within us can we rise up to be like God again
KWED
Scratching head, scratching knee
You may think you have free will, but if god predetermines any event, then you have no free will in that respect. Any "choice" you make is inevitable.
KWED
Scratching head, scratching knee
Meaningless platitude.
I'll ask again.
God created us with an ego that prevents us from seeing him. Why did he create us with that ego. Why didn't he leave that ego out and create us with the ability to see him?
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
That is your understanding, I believe differently and am free
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
My answer is the same.
Sheldon
Veteran Member
Appealing to an expert on a topic is not necessarily always fallacious, however citing someone as if they are an authority, or their opinion involves genuine expertise, when they are no authority on the topic at all, as you now admit, is the very definition of a fallacious appeal to authority.
That seems extremely unlikely given how often you yourself use known logical fallacies. Even here you have failed to spot a pretty obvious appeal to authority fallacy, and you even seem to think that citing someone as an authority when they are not any kind of authority, means it isn't fallacious, when it quite demonstrably is?
Like people quote mining Einstein for example, if he is offering an opinion on something other his area of expertise, his opinion has no more significance than anyone else's. Even in his are of expertise, his ideas would still have to be subject to the same critical scrutiny as anyone else's.
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Sheldon
Veteran Member
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
I do not believe for a second humans are animals. If you believe you are an animal that is of course up to you
Sheldon
Veteran Member
In the biblical creation myth, isn't the deity the one that decided we are fallen? After recklessly placing some fruit in harms way, when it quite specifically didn't want it touched or eaten? Even then according to the bible it had to resort to ethnic cleansing, mass indiscriminate murder, then finally a global genocidal flood. The deity depicted in the bible seems like a bumbling incompetent if you ask me.
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
"Information"
I am not going to reply anymore to comments made in ill will toward religion.
Are you saying you have nothing to do with what you post? Your posts are WHAT you offer in debate. You are making a decision to post these words. You have decided that Baha'i is correct. It has been your judgment to do everything you have done.
This is an excuse, not a proper response to challenges of problems in your posts. Trying to hide behind the "Messengers of God" isn't valid. You are still in control of your thoughts and actions, yes? Or are you a voluntary, mindless robot following orders of voices in your head?
I haven't heard you guys offer any plans. Don't you think that is important since according to you all God allowed many, many religions to form all over the planet and now needs to have a way for all these folks to reject their culture and religion and adopt Baha'i.
All you guys claim is ideals, that there needs to ne unity. Fine, how can it happen given the strong emotional bonds people have to their religions and cultures?
Excellent. Give us a basic outline of this plan so we can assess it. I don't know why you've neglected posting this sooner.
Show us evidence that this is true. Use facts.
So you're not sure.
The world became divided due in part to God allowing diverse religions. So what is the plan? Use facts.
But you could be wrong, about all of this, yes? You really have no way of knowing any of it is true, correct?
Religions and cultures developed together. Superstition was prevalent to early humans and they created religious answers to what happened around them. Thor answered why there's thunder. The gods of the Hawaiian Islands answered how they were created by volcano gods. Earthquakes and floods were God's wrath. Humans created rituals to please the gods, like sacrifices. This is how the Jesus myth was created, a sacrifice to God to appease the sins of mankind.
Religions were used to be THE authority as civilizations grew and there was law and order needed to keep stability. The over 600 laws in the Old Testament is an example of how religious leaders used God as their enforcement authority to keep order. Of course this continued into Christianity and into Islam. Muslim nations are still using religious authority to maintain power for leaders, but in Europe the Enlightenment broke the reliance on divine rights for leaders, creating a secular government.
So can Baha'i instill some sort of religious authority in the world? Doubtful, without war. Is war what God wants?
So let's see if our fellow RF members can outline a plan they claim to have for this world domination for unity that doesn't include war.
Right.
And if there is only one true God, why aren't the Chinese fallen in their tradition? Why aren't Hindus fallen? Why aren't the Shinto followers fallen? All the other traditions don't mention God causing their fall.
If Baha'i is going to try to accommodate all traditions by focusing on similarities, then many of the crucial details of the Abrahamic religions will have to be eliminated.
At best Baha'i would have to implement their beliefs with a new political power in the world, a militarized, political force that assumes its authority comes from God. Both Christianity and Islam used social instability and war to achieve this, albeit to certain limits. We are talking about a near complete collapse of civilizations all over the planet, like after a nuclear war. If anyone survives it will be a sort of Walking Dead scenario. But without global infrastructure independent beliefs and tribes will arise again.
Another nail in the coffin for religion. This illustrates that religious teachings are not truthful and factual, and why should modern humans still be looking for them to answer questions?
Lack meaning in life? Feel depressed and filled with anxiety? The best approach is to get professional help and create solutions. It can be harmful to mask these problems with ideologies that a person can realize are not based in fact or truth.
So if God can't itself known to a skeptic then God is either weak or plays games.
All belief is uncertain, and faith is unreliable, so no, a rational person cannot tell themselves they understand God this way, and be honest. They can deceive themselves about it. They can believe a set of illusions that self-verifies what it wants for the sake of ego.