Baha'i and Science

[oldbadger]

That depends upon what you consider "joyful." If sex is all you live for no, a Baha'i World would not be joyful.

That's a bit presumptuous.
Standing for equality and safety and security and freedom of sexuality doesn't make such people as you might try to describe them.

If on the other hand one lives for service to God and service to other people, it would be very joyful.

Is that what you do?
If so, your tenants must feel that they have found heaven. Is that how they feel?

 

[oldbadger]

I am not looking to have any "luck."
I like conversing with atheists because I find them interesting and rational, and not bigoted, like so many religious believers.
I also have an atheist bent.

Question!!
Are there many Bahais who have an atheist bent?

 

[Vinayaka]

Question!!
Are there many Bahais who have an atheist bent?

That's an excellent question.

 

[CG Didymus]

Spiritual laws only apply to Baha’is.

Wait... I thought Baha'is say that spiritual laws are the same in all religions. And it is only social laws that change? In the case with this thread would forbidding gay sex be a changeable social law that the next prophet could do away with? And, while you're at it, I've never heard a Baha'i tell what the new "social" laws that Jesus brought.

 

[Trailblazer]

That's a bit presumptuous.
Standing for equality and safety and security and freedom of sexuality doesn't make such people as you might try to describe them.

There was nothing presumptuous about what I said.
I did not describe anyone in any way. I just said “." If sex is all you live for no, a Baha'i World would not be joyful.” and the reason is because a Baha’i World would not put an emphasis upon sex.

If freedom of sexuality means “anything goes” this clearly is not in the best interest of the individual or society, but that is a Baha’i viewpoint. You are welcome to have a different viewpoint.

The 100-dollar question is why such an emphasis on sex? Everyone has to answer that question for themselves.
I already have an opinion but I won’t share it here..

Is that what you do?
If so, your tenants must feel that they have found heaven. Is that how they feel?

What I do is nobody’s business and it is a red herring.
What do my tenants have to do with this? That is another red herring.

 

[Trailblazer]

Question!!
Are there many Bahais who have an atheist bent?

Probably not, but I am different from most Baha'is.

 

[Vinayaka]

There was nothing presumptuous about what I said.
I did not describe anyone in any way. I just said “." If sex is all you live for no, a Baha'i World would not be joyful.” and the reason is because a Baha’i World would not put an emphasis upon sex.

If freedom of sexuality means “anything goes” this clearly is not in the best interest of the individual or society, but that is a Baha’i viewpoint. You are welcome to have a different viewpoint.

The 100-dollar question is why such an emphasis on sex? Everyone has to answer that question for themselves.
I already have an opinion but I won’t share it here..

I find sex talk ironic. I remember going into a store peddling a book I wrote, and the Christian guy there asked right away, "Does it have any smut in it?" That was his only concern it seems. All he could think about. Focussed on it.

Me, OTOH, I rarely ever think about it. Part of life, sure, but not something to focus on. There are a lot better things to think about. It reminds me of 'food' people. All they think about is 'food'. So concerned about their weight, trying to diet, it becomes a fixation.

Whether it's negative or positive, it's still a fixation. Same with the anti-gay homophobes. They spend way too much time thinking about something they claim they don't think about.

Baha'is certainly aren't alone in their 'thinking' on this one, but some days I'm not sure what they are actually thinking. Depends on the individual I suppose. So too with religion.

 

[Trailblazer]

I find sex talk ironic. I remember going into a store peddling a book I wrote, and the Christian guy there asked right away, "Does it have any smut in it?" That was his only concern it seems. All he could think about. Focussed on it.

Me, OTOH, I rarely ever think about it. Part of life, sure, but not something to focus on. There are a lot better things to think about. It reminds me of 'food' people. All they think about is 'food'. So concerned about their weight, trying to diet, it becomes a fixation.

Whether it's negative or positive, it's still a fixation. Same with the anti-gay homophobes. They spend way too much time thinking about something they claim they don't think about.

Baha'is certainly aren't alone in their 'thinking' on this one, but some days I'm not sure what they are actually thinking. Depends on the individual I suppose. So too with religion.

It sounds like you are pretty balanced. It's too bad more people are not that way.
Obsessed people are not happy people, no matter what the obsession.

 

[Vinayaka]

It sounds like you are pretty balanced. It's too bad more people are not that way.
Obsessed people are not happy people, no matter what the obsession.

Indeed.

 

[CG Didymus]

Identifying His Revelation with the "third woe,"

Revelation 11:14 The second woe has passed; the third woe is coming soon.​

How do you interpret the things that come after that verse? Shouldn't all be about Baha'u'llah from there to the end of Revelation? But, it's not. The next chapter is the start of the dragons and beasts, which Baha's say are the Umayyads and Abbasids from early Islam. So the story jumps backwards 1000 years?

 

[oldbadger]

There was nothing presumptuous about what I said.
I did not describe anyone in any way. I just said “." If sex is all you live for no, a Baha'i World would not be joyful.” and the reason is because a Baha’i World would not put an emphasis upon sex.

Look about you.
Look at what women and men are about.

Any culture which regards sexuality and sex drive as of little import is less likely to thrive in the World now, which is fortunate for those who do not support religions like Bahai.

If freedom of sexuality means “anything goes” this clearly is not in the best interest of the individual or society, but that is a Baha’i viewpoint. You are welcome to have a different viewpoint.

As long as Bahai keeps on calling out its bigotries, such as that, then Bahai should continue to be a small enough religion as to be harmless.

The 100-dollar question is why such an emphasis on sex? Everyone has to answer that question for themselves.
I already have an opinion but I won’t share it here..

It is Nature's demand upon us as well as Humanity's need for true love.

What I do is nobody’s business and it is a red herring.
What do my tenants have to do with this? That is another red herring.

I don't think that is true.
A true heart surely lives its truth with every heartbeat. I don't think that we can be a loving heart to the World at one moment and a ruthless materialist the next. That is surely a kind of schizophrenia?

 

[oldbadger]

I find sex talk ironic. I remember going into a store peddling a book I wrote, and the Christian guy there asked right away, "Does it have any smut in it?" That was his only concern it seems. All he could think about. Focussed on it.

Me, OTOH, I rarely ever think about it. Part of life, sure, but not something to focus on. There are a lot better things to think about. It reminds me of 'food' people. All they think about is 'food'. So concerned about their weight, trying to diet, it becomes a fixation.

Whether it's negative or positive, it's still a fixation. Same with the anti-gay homophobes. They spend way too much time thinking about something they claim they don't think about.

Baha'is certainly aren't alone in their 'thinking' on this one, but some days I'm not sure what they are actually thinking. Depends on the individual I suppose. So too with religion.

Well put.
I do think about sexuality and sex. It's my wife, her shape and the way she moves. I tell her I'll get over it, but it's been 29 years now.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

The number one "sex" I think about is my own gender and transitioning. I can pretty much guarantee you that.

 

[CG Didymus]

Which one of the many sects of Hinduism teaches the truth about God?

Polytheism and reincarnation Baha'is say aren't true. Bahai' then make the erroneous claim that Krishna is the founder of Hinduism. I think you've corrected that. But then, who is the founder? And how many avatars have there been in Hinduism? So, again, which sect of Hinduism do Baha'is believe teaches the truth about God? I don't think you believe any of them do. I think that Baha'is believe all of them are teaching things that are false.
​

We can say that this is a guide to what is truthful;

"The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control".

Whoever practices them has the truth within.

Regards Tony

So how does that answer the questions? Are you saying doctrines and beliefs don't matter. If people are living the fruits of the spirit all is good, because those things are the truth. Great, who lives by things? At best, some people in a lot of different religions do their best to live a good life. And all of them believe different things. Many of those things contradict what Baha'is belief, yet those people do fairly well being good people. So the truth is that religious beliefs are relative? There is no "absolute" truth?

 

[Vinayaka]

Well put.
I do think about sexuality and sex. It's my wife, her shape and the way she moves. I tell her I'll get over it, but it's been 29 years now.

Depends how often. We had five kids and I taught for 30 years. There was little time, but we did find some. It's unhealthy to fixate on anything, and that includes religion. Perhaps it is what in part separates fundamentalists from liberals. Needs to be a balance.

 

[Vinayaka]

The number one "sex" I think about is my own gender and transitioning. I can pretty much guarantee you that.

Makes total sense, in that situation. But all things are temporal too. I will place a bet that in 20 years, or even once you've passed, it will be far less.

 

[CG Didymus]

Imagine that!

And when two criminals burn down a house, the Bahai convict is burned at a stake and the secular convict gets 10 years in prison.

If Bahais think that a Bahai World would be joyful then they need to ';get real'. And any UHJ could decide that the Bab's ideas about society should be implemented in his memory. Even Bahauallah's ideas about society are bad enough.

So if Baha'is need laws on what kind of punishment should be done to a Baha'i that burns down somebody's house, and I assume the person living there died, then that is not a perfect world they are working towards. Peace, unity, love and burning people alive?

 

[Trailblazer]

At best, some people in a lot of different religions do their best to live a good life. And all of them believe different things. Many of those things contradict what Baha'is belief, yet those people do fairly well being good people. So the truth is that religious beliefs are relative? There is no "absolute" truth?

You might want to note that the other religions also contradict what the other religions believe. All religions have different beliefs that contradict each other, so it is not just a Baha'i thing.
It really does not matter if religious beliefs differ. What matters is how we live our lives, if we are good people.

All religious beliefs are relative because there will be more religions revealed in the future, according to Baha'i beliefs. Absolute truth is strictly confined to God.

 

[Vinayaka]

You might want to note that the other religions also contradict what the other religions believe.

That may well be true, but a significant difference is whether or not they argue about it, or constantly point it out. Yes, my beliefs are different than Christians, but I'm not saying I'm right and they're wrong. Just different, and acknowledgement of that. Let each go his own way.

 

[Trailblazer]

Look about you.
Look at what women and men are about.

I do not see what you see because my lens is different from your lens. I think sex is relatively minor part of who we are and that people can easily live fully-functioning lives and be happy without sex.

Any culture which regards sexuality and sex drive as of little import is less likely to thrive in the World now, which is fortunate for those who do not support religions like Bahai.

I do not see what you see because my lens is different from your lens. Any culture which regards sexuality and sex drive as an important part of being human is lacking in spirituality because sex is a physical drive which can and often does interfere with spirituality, when people become obsessed with it. Moreover, sex is about self, not about others, and even if one other person is involved, it is always about self and desire, given one cannot have sex without focusing on self and having desire.

There is nothing noble about sex, except when the act creates a new life. Other than for that purpose people want sex for physical pleasure because it feels good, so why not just admit it? At least that would be honest.

This is not just a Baha’i teaching; it is also a Christian teaching, so why pick on the Baha’is? Is it because some laws were finally set down? It’s about time, given how Christians have wavered from the path and the teachings of Jesus.

As long as Bahai keeps on calling out its bigotries, such as that, then Bahai should continue to be a small enough religion as to be harmless.

Bigotries? Bigotry is intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself. Baha’is are not bigots because we are not intolerant towards those who hold different opinions. It seems to me that you are projecting because you cannot tolerate the Baha’i Faith since its views differ from your views.

It is Nature's demand upon us as well as Humanity's need for true love.

Sex is not love and love is not sex, nor is there any necessary relationship between the two. In human beings it is true that sex typically plays a bonding role in a certain type of loving relationship, but it's not necessary to it (however much people think it is). We love lots of people who we would never consider having sex with: children, parents, close friends, etc. One might even add household pets to the list.

We do not have to succumb to the demands of nature. That is what animals do. God is calling us to struggle against our lower nature and to become who we truly are: not material beings, not sexual beings, but spiritual beings who are in control of the physical side of our nature and who can thus find true happiness living in conformity with God’s will.

Of course, if people do not believe in the one true God of the Abrahamic religions, they can discount everything I said. They can party hardy, no holds barred, but do not pretend this is good for society. The fact remains that the vast majority of murders that do not involve a spouse also involve rape, and these are not all committed by men who have no wife at home. Adultery which leads to broken marriages also involves sex. Clearly, the improper use of the sex instinct is a problem in society.

I don't think that is true.
A true heart surely lives its truth with every heartbeat. I don't think that we can be a loving heart to the World at one moment and a ruthless materialist the next. That is surely a kind of schizophrenia?

I do not see how that is related to what we are talking about, and as such it is a red herring.