Baha'i groups discuss the Covenant of Baha'u'llah

[InvestigateTruth]

Who did it before Mohammad (s)?

"...there appeared four men who successively announced unto the people the joyful tidings of the rise of that divine Luminary. Rúz-bih, later named Salmán, was honored by being in their service. As the end of one of these approached, he would send Rúz-bih unto the other, until the fourth who, feeling his death to be nigh, addressed Rúz-bih saying: “O Rúz bih! when thou hast taken up my body and buried it, go to Ḥijáz for there the Daystar of Muḥammad will arise. Happy art thou, for thou shalt behold His face!”

The Kitáb-i-Íqán | Bahá’í Reference Library

A treatise revealed by Bahá’u’lláh in Baghdad in 1861/62 in response to questions posed by one of the maternal uncles of the Báb, translated by Shoghi Effendi and first published in English in 1931.

www.bahai.org

 

[InvestigateTruth]

And who did it for Krishna, Buddha, Adam, Noah, Abraham and Moses? It's a nice thing to say. And it's a nice thing for Baha'is to believe, but as usual, is it true. Oh, and isn't there something about Elijah always come first? If so, then who did Elijah announce? Not Moses. Not Jesus.

"Among the Prophets was Abraham, the Friend of God. Ere He manifested Himself, Nimrod dreamed a dream. Thereupon, he summoned the soothsayers, who informed him of the rise of a star in the heaven. Likewise, there appeared a herald who announced throughout the land the coming of Abraham.

After Him came Moses, He Who held converse with God. The soothsayers of His time warned Pharaoh in these terms: “A star hath risen in the heaven, and lo! it foreshadoweth the conception of a Child Who holdeth your fate and the fate of your people in His hand.” In like manner, there appeared a sage who, in the darkness of the night, brought tidings of joy unto the people of Israel, imparting consolation to their souls, and assurance to their hearts. To this testify the records of the sacred books. "

The Kitáb-i-Íqán | Bahá’í Reference Library

A treatise revealed by Bahá’u’lláh in Baghdad in 1861/62 in response to questions posed by one of the maternal uncles of the Báb, translated by Shoghi Effendi and first published in English in 1931.

www.bahai.org

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Verse 6:146.

These Law were already in the Torah that was revealed to Moses:

"For those who are Jewish, We forbade every animal with undivided hoofs and the fat of oxen and sheep except what is joined to their backs or intestines or mixed with bone. In this way We rewarded them for their violations. And We are certainly truthful." Quran



"You may eat any animal that has a divided hoof and that chews the cud.
There are some that only chew the cud or only have a divided hoof, but you must not eat them. The camel, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is ceremonially unclean for you.
The hyrax, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is unclean for you.
The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is unclean for you.
And the pig, though it has a divided hoof, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you.....
Of all the creatures living in the water of the seas and the streams you may eat any that have fins and scales....."
Leviticus 11 (Torah).

So, why do you think these Laws were added by other prophets after Moses?

 

[CG Didymus]

"Among the Prophets was Abraham, the Friend of God. Ere He manifested Himself, Nimrod dreamed a dream. Thereupon, he summoned the soothsayers, who informed him of the rise of a star in the heaven. Likewise, there appeared a herald who announced throughout the land the coming of Abraham.

After Him came Moses, He Who held converse with God. The soothsayers of His time warned Pharaoh in these terms: “A star hath risen in the heaven, and lo! it foreshadoweth the conception of a Child Who holdeth your fate and the fate of your people in His hand.” In like manner, there appeared a sage who, in the darkness of the night, brought tidings of joy unto the people of Israel, imparting consolation to their souls, and assurance to their hearts. To this testify the records of the sacred books. "

The Kitáb-i-Íqán | Bahá’í Reference Library

A treatise revealed by Bahá’u’lláh in Baghdad in 1861/62 in response to questions posed by one of the maternal uncles of the Báb, translated by Shoghi Effendi and first published in English in 1931.

www.bahai.org

Where in Genesis does it say that?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Where in Genesis does it say that?

That's a good question. I suggest asking the Jews if such things exist in their recorded traditions.

 

[CG Didymus]

That's a good question. I suggest asking the Jews if such things exist in their recorded traditions.

Are there any traditions in Islam that mention it? And still, for the Messiah the tradition was that Elijah must come first, then Baha'is sound as if they think that for all manifestations there was an Elijah, but the real Elijah came after Moses and long before Jesus? So, the real Elijah wasn't the forerunner of anybody.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Here are some beginning questions for all parties to kick the discussion off;

1. What do you see as the key features of the Kitab-i-Ahd (Book of Baha'u'llah's Covenant)?

2. How do you view the (alleged) infallibility of Abdul-Baha? How is it seen by other members of your group?

3. Does your group simply go by the name "Baha'i" or do you have other names to differentiate it from other Baha'i groups?

4. Are all Houses of Justice equal in your Baha'i group?

5. Do you have a living guardian (and do you even see one as necessary)?

Looks like I'm late to the party.

1/ The appointment by Baha'u'llah of 'Abdu'l-Baha as His successor.

2/ I see 'Abdu'l-Baha as inspired and guided by God and the perfect exempler of Baha'u'llah's Teachings. The word 'infallible' is prone to misunderstanding so I avoid using it. Some Baha'is I know have no issue with the word.

3/ Members of my Faith community are called Baha'is and my Faith community is known as the Baha'i Faith.

4/ There is only one House of Justice and that is the Universal House of Justice based in Haifa. There are nascent houses of justice ( the National and Local Spiritual Assemblies) that will eventually become houses of justice. National Houses of Justices will have authority over Local Houses of Justice and the Universal House of Justice will have authority over National Houses of Justice.

5/ No and no.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Looks like I'm late to the party.

I hope all is well and happy. I know you will be very busy. I hope the practices are doing well.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Looks like I'm late to the party.

Better late than never...
Welcome back!

 

[seeking4truth]

The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community is a branch of Islam founded in the Punjab region of India by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad in 1889. Ahmad claimed to be another prophet, specifically the messiah expected to bring about the end times and the peaceful conversion of the world to the true lost form of Islam. There are 10-20 million Ahmadis worldwide and approximately 15,000-20,000 in the United States.

https://interfaithalliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Ahmadi-5Facts.pdf

Anyone can make a claim. What kind of evidence does Mirza Ghulam Ahmad have to support his claim to be the long awaited messiah?
Did he fulfill any of he prophecies in the Bible?

'support his claim' - Mirza Ghulam Ahmad(as) made many claims, some were fulfilled and witnessed in his lifetime and some we see fulfilled more recently. They are being fulfilled regularly. If your interest is serious, pray, ask God Himself and read the writing of Mirza Sahib(as) Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

 

[seeking4truth]

What did you conclude, that the evidence was circumstantial, and what do you mean by circumstantial?

The evidence will be proof to some people but it will not be proof to everyone, so we can prove it to ourselves, but not to everyone.
Think about this: Since we can never prove that God exists, how could we ever prove that a Messenger got messages from God?

'never prove God exists!' God can - ask Him.

 

[Trailblazer]

'never prove God exists!' God can - ask Him.

I meant that we can never prove that God exists to other people. I did not say that we cannot prove to ourselves that God exists.

Yes, God could prove that He exists to anyone He so chooses to prove His existence to.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

'support his claim' - Mirza Ghulam Ahmad(as) made many claims, some were fulfilled and witnessed in his lifetime and some we see fulfilled more recently. They are being fulfilled regularly. If your interest is serious, pray, ask God Himself and read the writing of Mirza Sahib(as) Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

We have done that discussion on the life of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad , this reply is to give you a historical link, as this discussion is not applicable to this OP.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad knew of the writing's of the Bab and Baha'u'llah and later in life said he has mastered them. He never challenged the Bab and Baha'u'llah and their claims predate Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

Interaction with The People of Bahá: A response to Ahmadi Answers

This is the third response in the series of responses to a video by Ahmadi Answers attacking the Bahá’í Faith. To read the first piece, click here. To read the second piece, click here. To re…

bahaipen.wordpress.com

The Branch of Islam started by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad changed the teachings over the years, as Mirza Ghulam Ahmad studied more religions. His knowledge was no innate.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Good morning everyone.

I have invited (with their permission) a member of the Baha'i Faith loyal to the Universal House of Justice based in Haifa (represented unofficially by Trailblazer) to discuss the Baha'i Covenant of Baha'u'llah with a Baha'i from outside the Haifa based group (represented unofficially by trident765).

Without further ado a warm welcome to @trident765 and @Trailblazer

Look what I found on the fourth page of threads! Before this thread vanishes completely away, what are the closing statements by Trident and TB?

 

[Trailblazer]

Look what I found on the fourth page! Before this thread vanishes completely away, what are the closing statements by Trident and TB?

What did you find on the fourth page?

Closing statements about what?