Baha'i Haircut Law: Why Create a Law if your going to break it youself?

[Jumi]

No real picture of Muhammad exists so I don't understand what Sunnis consider Taboo and what you're speaking about.

You haven't watched the ruckus caused between (some) Sunnis and (some) Christians and (some) Atheists then as you are unfamiliar with it. I think they consider it some kind of idol worship. You really couldn't avoid hearing about it if you had lived in the so-called West or some major Muslim countries.

I'm out of this discussion anyway. You continue your quest of trying to find fault in other's scriptures any way you can and enjoy your Baha'i hobby.

edit: added the (some) qualifiers there so as to not make the whole groups seem stubborn or of one mind

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yeah, deputization funds and deputizers.

 

[Vinayaka]

Yeah, deputization funds and deputizers.

I think that there has probably been a bit of a switch from encouraging 'Pioneers' over to encouraging volunteering for the BIA, with or without official consent. Documents by Bahá'í internet agency

Has had similar amount of success for expanding the sect, I would imagine, which is basically nil.

 

[Shantanu]

According to Baha'i law, shaving one's head and allowing hair to grow longer than the lobe of the ear is forbidden:

"Shave not your heads; God hath adorned them with hair, and in this there are signs from the Lord of creation to those who reflect upon the requirements of nature. He, verily, is the God of strength and wisdom. Notwithstanding, it is not seemly to let the hair pass beyond the limit of the ears. Thus hath it been decreed by Him Who is the Lord of all worlds." (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i Aqdas)​

Of course the second law only applies to men (what happened to equality of men and women?!!):

"Shoghi Effendi has made clear that, unlike the prohibition on shaving the head, this law forbidding the growing of the hair beyond the lobe of the ear pertains only to men." (The Kitab-i Aqdas, notes)
​

However, Baha'u'llah, Abdu'l-Baha, and even Baha'u'llah's scribe (Mishkin Qalam) completely ignored this law:

View attachment 26108


What's the use of a law that the Prophet, His successor, and his closest companions aren't willing to implement themselves, then expect their followers to implement them?! If you can't abide by your own rules then why do expect others to do so?

Faith evolves over time and different emphasis are paid leading to different sects developing.

 

[Vinayaka]

Faith evolves over time and different emphasis are paid leading to different sects developing.

Some evolve faster than others though, as there are limiting factors (like infallibility of scripture or leaders) for some whereas others are free to adapt to modern ideas, or technology. Think Amish as an example.

 

[Shantanu]

Some evolve faster than others though, as there are limiting factors (like infallibility of scripture or leaders) for some whereas others are free to adapt to modern ideas, or technology. Think Amish as an example.

Infallibility is a facet of religion that can be developed by anyone provided he or she follows the truth path.

 

[oldbadger]

With any interfaith debate/discussion its reasonable that both parties are aware of the faith and ideology of the other. I’m open about being a Baha’i in the West who grew up in a country where Christianity is the main religion. Spirit of Dawn needs to be more open about being Shi’a Muslim from Iran where Baha’is are persecuted daily.

You know, when it is convenient even some Bahais will withold their religion. It does take a special kind of person to be 100% open, and then the rest of the world will either rate this as being gutsy or being stupid.

You mention that Bahais in Iran are persecuted daily.
I just don't believe that anymore........ maybe monthly, maybe a few times each year, maybe for Iranian criminal offences, but `Iran is 'back to the wall' at this time, and it is extremely involved with its own version of 'Homeland Security'. An English lady is in prison in Iran just now, convicted of espionage crimes...... we were hoping for her to be released by Xmas, and a (Cambridge?) professor has just arrived home after being released from Iranian prison. Lots of people get in to trouble in Iran at this time, and if I had to visit that country for any reason I would be very blooming careful about how I would conduct myself.

Every oppressive regime relies on distortion, propaganda and lies to further its agenda. It relies on denial and blaming the victim.

Unfortunately for Bahai on this thread and others, the information being exposed seems to be very accurate because so far you have not had a leg to stand on in this debate, other than calling Bahai a victim.



I must go............. it's dinner time...... I will reply to all your points when I can.

But if Spirit of Dawn has not told of his/her country, faith, politics, hobbies, work etc, why don't you share yours with that member etc? You might learn more?

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

For every person who raises a hand in tyranny to oppress another, there are countless others who are complicit. Collusion with the oppressor may be active with denial, minimising what is happening or blaming the victim. It may be contributing to misunderstandings by fanning the flames of prejudice. It may be passive by standing by in silence while abuse is perpetrated. Being complicit can take many forms.

You have come to RF with a 600 page anti-Baha’i book written in Iran, recently translated into English that is the source of your anti-Baha’i threads.

Full text of "Twelve Principles: A Comprehensive Investigation On The Baha'i Teachings First Edition"

It didn’t take me long to see it is full of distortions and misinformation.

So in highlighting your agenda, does that invalidate your argument? If Iranian Shi’a Islam has nothing to fear from the Baha’i Faith why does it need to persecute Baha’is? It appears the Baha’i Faith is a threat.

When one religion perpetrates injustices against another their actions invalidates their argument. Don’t blame me for that.



Of course. The next instalment from your book.

OOOOh an anti-Baha'i book authored in Iran. Let's shoot the messenger....

 

[Vinayaka]

You know, when it is convenient even some Bahais will withold their religion. It does take a special kind of person to be 100% open, and then the rest of the world will either rate this as being gutsy or being stupid.

You mention that Bahais in Iran are persecuted daily.
I just don't believe that anymore........ maybe monthly, maybe a few times each year, maybe for Iranian criminal offences, but `Iran is 'back to the wall' at this time, and it is extremely involved with its own version of 'Homeland Security'. An English lady is in prison in Iran just now, convicted of espionage crimes...... we were hoping for her to be released by Xmas, and a (Cambridge?) professor has just arrived home after being released from Iranian prison. Lots of people get in to trouble in Iran at this time, and if I had to visit that country for any reason I would be very blooming careful about how I would conduct myself.


Unfortunately for Bahai on this thread and others, the information being exposed seems to be very accurate because so far you have not had a leg to stand on in this debate, other than calling Bahai a victim.



I must go............. it's dinner time...... I will reply to all your points when I can.

But if Spirit of Dawn has not told of his/her country, faith, politics, hobbies, work etc, why don't you share yours with that member etc? You might learn more?

Persecution is for all non-Muslim. It is an error to think that they are singling out one minority only. When Amnesty International or Human Rights Watch or any other neutral outsider looks at it, that's what they see. I don't think anyone here is saying the Baha'i aren't persecuted.

A simple google search gives tons of examples ... Iran’s Ethnic, Religious Minorities Face Persecution, Sectarian Discrimination

 

[oldbadger]

Persecution is for all non-Muslim. It is an error to think that they are singling out one minority only. When Amnesty International or Human Rights Watch or any other neutral outsider looks at it, that's what they see. I don't think anyone here is saying the Baha'i aren't persecuted.

A simple google search gives tons of examples ... Iran’s Ethnic, Religious Minorities Face Persecution, Sectarian Discrimination

Exactly so........
Christians in Iran are having a hard time just now, and JWs are banned from the country and most other Islamic countries. Some sources below show this.

The US reintroduction of sanctions upon Iran is not approved by most European countries and as such it is being harassed and victimised because a particular President decided thus.

If I went to Iran I wouldn't mess about with a photographic holiday, or studies in government security systems (which is how one English student got nailed) and folks need to stay well within the laws of the country. Most Bahais that have been arrested have been busting laws as far as I can determine.

But how @adrian 009 can use this situation to defend against the information such as is posted here is strange. All that Bahais need to do is tell it how it is, why in my experience here on RF they don't always do.

A dangerous Christmas for Iran's Christians - Opinion - Jerusalem Post
A dangerous Christmas for Iran's Christians
3 days ago - Human rights groups slam Iran for prison terms of Christians and Dervishes ... An Iranian Christian acquaintance of mine, while imprisoned in Iran's ..... How have victims fared 10 years after Madoff Ponzi scheme scandal?
Iranian Christians Are Victims of Trump's Refugee Policy - The Atlantic
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/08/...iran-christians/566534/
3 Aug 2018 - Nearly 100 Iranian Christians due to be resettled in the U.S. are in legal limbo in Austria as their cases are reviewed.
Iran Sentences Man, Wife, Every Member of Church to Prison for ...
https://www1.cbn.com/.../iran-sentences-a-man-his-wife-and-every-member-of-their-c...
13 Aug 2018 - Iran's Islamic regime has sentenced an Iranian couple to prison for practicing Christianity and also sentenced every member of their church to ...
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TASS: World - Everything you need to know about Jehovah's Witnesses
tass.com/world/939582
5 Apr 2017 - Jehovah's Witnesses are outlawed in many countries including China, North Korea, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Georgia, Tajikistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran and Iraq. ... Witnesses deported to Siberia and declare them as victims of ...
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[spirit_of_dawn]

Persecution is for all non-Muslim. It is an error to think that they are singling out one minority only. When Amnesty International or Human Rights Watch or any other neutral outsider looks at it, that's what they see. I don't think anyone here is saying the Baha'i aren't persecuted.

A simple google search gives tons of examples ... Iran’s Ethnic, Religious Minorities Face Persecution, Sectarian Discrimination

I'm not saying Iran is heaven, and I am not saying persecution doesn't occur (like every other country) but many of those accusations are politically motivated. The article mentions ethnic groups like Turks, Kurds, Arabs. A small minority from these groups are working to carve out new countries out of Iran: Kurds on the border of Iraqi Kurdistan (they are doing the same in Iraq, Syria, and Turkey), Turks on the border of Turkey and Azerbaijan, and Arabs on the border of Iraq. We've had numerous terrorist attacks from the few small separatists.

When the government intervenes to protect the national borders, these folks claim they are being persecuted. Western countries immediately exaggerate these claims that are many times baseless and use it as a political tool against Iran.

 

[Vinayaka]

At the same time it's quite natural to be more affected emotionally, the closer to home it is. You hear other members of your church, you read magazines from your own faith, you go to websites within your faith etc. Country loyalty plays a factor, blah blah blah. But you already know this. None of us are immune.

But how it does vary is how much any group of adherents shares this (biased) news outside their own group, and behaves as if it were neutral rather than the biased report that it is. I read my own biased stuff (like Hinduism Today, the magazine, for example, or CBC news, Canada's national TV) but I don't see it as totally neutral either.

 

[oldbadger]

OOOOh an anti-Baha'i book authored in Iran. Let's shoot the messenger....

Hi.......
There are anti books in England about any and every religion, culture, group or following that exists....

Islam gets its fair share of harassment here, but then so does Christianity in its many different denominations.

The thing about Bahai is, in my opinion I see double-meaning, double-think and double-speak in almost every passage that's written by it's various prophets and leaders, its history, its claims.... et al.

Your threads just add to the list of negatives about Bahai. Between 1972 and 1991 I was married to my late Bahai wife and often took her to Bahai functions. That is what attracted me to Bahai threads here and how, in my perception, I discovered the gaps in its truth.

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm not saying Iran is heaven, and I am not saying persecution doesn't occur (like every other country) but many of those accusations are politically motivated. The article mentions ethnic groups like Turks, Kurds, Arabs. A small minority from these groups are working to carve out new countries out of Iran: Kurds on the border of Iraqi Kurdistan (they are doing the same in Iraq, Syria, and Turkey), Turks on the border of Turkey and Azerbaijan, and Arabs on the border of Iraq. We've had numerous terrorist attacks from the few small separatists.

When the government intervenes to protect the national borders, these folks claim they are being persecuted. Western countries immediately exaggerate these claims that are many times baseless and use it as a political tool against Iran.

Yes, I agree. Iran and Iraq and others are victims of a slanted western press. So too is India.

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

Hi.......
The thing about Bahai is, in my opinion I see double-meaning, double-think and double-speak in almost every passage that's written by it's various prophets and leaders, its history, its claims.... et al.

Hi,

I've reached the belief that there is no statement in Baha'i scripture except that has been contradicted elsewhere in the scripture.

 

[oldbadger]

Hi,

I've reached the belief that there is no statement in Baha'i scripture except that has been contradicted elsewhere in the scripture.

Yep........... I can believe that.

 

[Trackdayguy]

Seems like the Bahai community on this forum have taken a real bashing as late. In some ways I feel quite sorry for them. There are some real qualities in the Bahai faith and I personally know several Baha'i's who are all lovely people. But sadly like most religions it all center's around idealizing a man, Baha'ullah is this case and then the whole thing goes sideways with his man made rules (how long's your hair) and in most cases the rational thinkers even those who are open to spiritual things like myself just walk away.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

e. But sadly like most religions it all center's around idealizing a man

Again incorrect.

There is none worshipped, but God.

We see naught but God, in all Faiths, given by Gods Messengers.

We look for naught but God in all things, plain and simple. This has been explained many times.

Peace be with you, regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

Unfortunately for Bahai on this thread and others, the information being exposed seems to be very accurate because so far you have not had a leg to stand on in this debate, other than calling Bahai a victi

I’ve already addressed key omissions and distortions of the OP.

To recap:

1/ The law regarding hair was part of a book of laws for a future civilisation. Many of the laws revealed were non-binding at the time, and remain so today.

2/ The book of laws (The Kitab-I-Aqdas) were revealed by Bahá’u’lláh in 1873 when He was incarcerated inder harsh conditions in the prison city Akka (see post#18). It was hardly the time to be implementing any of the laws revealed yet alone those concerning trimming of hair.

3/ The two top photos of Bahá’u’lláh was taken 5 years before He wrote the laws and was about to be deported from Adrianople to Akka. Their inclusion is irrelevant and unnecessary.

4/ The other photos are not of Bahá’u’lláh and similarly irrelevant.

5/ The photos of Bahá’u’lláh are poor quality images of ones that Baha’is consider sacred so the intent in posting them is largely to offend Baha’is.

If the intent of the OP is to portray a non-binding injunction concerning hair length as extreme, it appears hypocritical given the hijab remains mandatory in Iran despite widespread opposition and the imposition of prison sentences for violations.

How Iran uses a compulsory hijab law to control its citizens – and why they are protesting

Iran government against using 'force' to make women wear hijab

 

[Dawnofhope]

You mention that Bahais in Iran are persecuted daily.
I just don't believe that anymore........ maybe monthly, maybe a few times each year, maybe for Iranian criminal offences

Baha’is being imprisoned on trumped up charges as well as being deprived of employment and education opportunities available to all other citizens are daily persecution.

Profiles of the seven Baha’i “leaders” - Bahá’í World News Service

Bahá'í 7 - Wikipedia