Baha'i logical afterlife

[Audie]

Well... Seems to me God and love share many of the same characteristics... and we don't/can't believe in either until we feel the sun on our face so to speak, quite frustrating on both accounts it seems.

Ok whstever.

 

[JoshuaTree]

Ok whstever.

Thank you.

 

[JoshuaTree]

Neither exists except as a function of biochemical processes.

Seems like a consistent viewpoint.

 

[Audie]

Logical afterlife?

Logical but not true.

 

[shunyadragon]

Logical but not true.

Neither logical nor necessarily true.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

A lot depends on whether or not you believe the Bible. The Bible does NOT say the the wages of sin is separation from God. It DIES say the wages of sin is DEATH. I think there is a big difference between death and separation from God.

 

[Trailblazer]

A lot depends on whether or not you believe the Bible. The Bible does NOT say the the wages of sin is separation from God. It DIES say the wages of sin is DEATH. I think there is a big difference between death and separation from God.

Spiritual death is separation from God.
Physical death is nothing. The body dies, the soul lives on.
Eternal life means nearness to God, it does not mean living forever in a physical body.

Romans 6:23
King James Version
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

What does it mean that the wages of sin is death? | GotQuestions.org

 

[JoshuaTree]

Logical but not true.

Spiritual death is separation from God.
Physical death is nothing. The body dies, the soul lives on.
Eternal life means nearness to God, it does not mean living forever in a physical body.

Romans 6:23
King James Version
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

What does it mean that the wages of sin is death? | GotQuestions.org

Ecclesiastes 3:21 New International Version (NIV)
21 Who knows if the human spirit rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Spiritual death is separation from God.
Physical death is nothing. The body dies, the soul lives on.
Eternal life means nearness to God, it does not mean living forever in a physical body.

Romans 6:23
King James Version
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

What does it mean that the wages of sin is death? | GotQuestions.org

I see nothing in the Bible that says spiritual death is separation from God. Eternal life is a GIFT. Not everyone recieves that gift. It is a gidt God gives to those who obey his laws.

 

[ppp]

I see nothing in the Bible that says spiritual death is separation from God. Eternal life is a GIFT. Not everyone recieves that gift. It is a gidt God gives to those who obey his laws.

It's not a gift if you have have to meet an obligation first.

 

[loverofhumanity]

A lot depends on whether or not you believe the Bible. The Bible does NOT say the the wages of sin is separation from God. It DIES say the wages of sin is DEATH. I think there is a big difference between death and separation from God.

Spiritual death is separation from God. In the Bible Christ said “ Let the dead bury the dead”. So dead here is referring to spiritual death.

Just as spiritual death is caused by sin, virtuous behavior promotes spiritual life along with belief.

 

[firedragon]

I like baha'i's belief in afterlife. That they do not scare people with eternal concious torment in hell. To scare people with eternal hell is just cruel. God should not be worshiped out of fear. The afterlife they believe in shows that God is loving, and at the same time just. The afterlife they believe in is also logical.

Baha’is speak of Heaven as nearness to God and Hell as remoteness from God. Heaven represents the joy experienced by a soul that is spiritually close to God, while the torments of “hell” symbolize the suffering a soul endures when it is spiritually far from its Creator. Baha’is believe such spiritual “proximity to” or “distance from” God is determined by a person’s love for the Creator and the degree to which he sincerely tries in his life to reflect the true Teachings revealed by God's prophets.

In baha'i teachings salvation is a process. The process of acquiring spiritual virtues. The main aim of life should be to perfect these spiritual attributes; the more these are perfected, the closer humans become to God. And it is this closeness to God that is the heaven or paradise referred to in the scriptures of all religions.
Failing to develop these virtues means humans separating themselves from God, and that is hell. Thus heaven and hell are not distinct places; they are spiritual conditions both in this world and in the after-life.

What do you think about this matter?

Thus, your point is, true or not, what sounds hunky dory is great!

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Spiritual death is separation from God. In the Bible Christ said “ Let the dead bury the dead”. So dead here is referring to spiritual death.

Just as spiritual death is caused by sin, virtuous behavior promotes spiritual life along with belief.

I do not see how dead burying the dead refers to spiritual death.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

It's not a gift if you have have to meet an obligation first.

Really? So I can't say that I will give a gift to my friends who come to my house on a certain day? They come, they get a gift. They do not come, no gift. Pretty simple. And yes, it is a gift. They just have to come to my house to get it.

 

[ppp]

Really? So I can't say that I will give a gift to my friends who come to my house on a certain day? They come, they get a gift. They do not come, no gift. Pretty simple. And yes, it is a gift. They just have to come to my house to get it.

You can say it, but it's not true. Your friends may consider in a small price to pay to come to your house in exchange for what is being given. But it's still a price.

But irrespective of that, that analogy is garbage. A proper analogy would be a situation where you demand that people who are not your friends come to your house no matter what it might cost them, in order to pay homage to you; and in return you promise to preserve them from being tortured for all eternity by a mechanism that you yourself devised, created, implemented, and allowed to continue running. You're so called 'gift' is to not be tortured by you.

 

[JoshuaTree]

You can say it, but it's not true. Your friends may consider in a small price to pay to come to your house in exchange for what is being given. But it's still a price.

But irrespective of that, that analogy is garbage. A proper analogy would be a situation where you demand that people who are not your friends come to your house no matter what it might cost them, in order to pay homage to you; and in return you promise to preserve them from being tortured for all eternity by a mechanism that you yourself devised, created, implemented, and allowed to continue running. You're so called 'gift' is to not be tortured by you.

Yeah, seems to me the gift thing only makes sense when God is in absolute control of all that was, all that is, and all that ever shall be, i.e. when we don't have free will. God bestowing salvation in the absence of free will to do other than God will is truly a gift. Most people I chat with reject this argument because they can't accept they don't have free will... To drive to your house and preserve themselves from eternal torture in your analogy. I realize I can't ever win such an argument against free will because... Well because people don't have the free will to change their minds and believe as I do until a time and place of God's choosing, or not. Not my fault, not their fault, and certainly not God's fault.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

You can say it, but it's not true. Your friends may consider in a small price to pay to come to your house in exchange for what is being given. But it's still a price.

But irrespective of that, that analogy is garbage. A proper analogy would be a situation where you demand that people who are not your friends come to your house no matter what it might cost them, in order to pay homage to you; and in return you promise to preserve them from being tortured for all eternity by a mechanism that you yourself devised, created, implemented, and allowed to continue running. You're so called 'gift' is to not be tortured by you.

Now I see where your understanding is wrong. God does not torture people and nothing in the Bible says that he does. It is a matter of life or death. Those who will follow the rules will live and those who will not follow the rules will die.

 

[JoshuaTree]

Now I see where your understanding is wrong. God does not torture people and nothing in the Bible says that he does. It is a matter of life or death. Those who will follow the rules will live and those who will not follow the rules will die.

Revelation 14:10
New International Version

10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.

 

[ppp]

Yeah, seems to me the gift thing only makes sense when God is in absolute control of all that was, all that is, and all that ever shall be, i.e. when we don't have free will. God bestowing salvation in the absence of free will to do other than God will is truly a gift. Most people I chat with reject this argument because they can't accept they don't have free will...

Free will is irrelevant to my stated position. It is true whether we have free will (of any definition) or not.

 

[ppp]

Now I see where your understanding is wrong. God does not torture people and nothing in the Bible says that he does. It is a matter of life or death. Those who will follow the rules will live and those who will not follow the rules will die.

I am not sure why you think forcing someone to pay homage to you to avoid death is morally superior to forcing someone to pay homage to you to avoid torture. It's not like saying, It's not torture, it's death makes it something other than extortion.