Bahai scholarship of all scripture

[Truthseeker]

As an example, there are atheists who are scholars of Islam. Like Donner. Highly educated scholar of the Qur'an but he is an atheist. His application of scholarship is not "atheist". It is simply scholarship. There is nothing called atheistic scholarship. Or at least not in the academic world.

Probably he tried to be unbiased. That is what is scholarship to me. I know of Karen Armstrong, though I haven't read her stuff, who examines other religions than her own, though I can't say anything about how unbiased she is.

 

[firedragon]

You want scholarship to be defined precisely? I can't do that, I don't think. I can say it is an examination of scripture making an effort not to be biased. I know more about Islamic scholarly books. There is a book by Moojan Momen on Shi'i Islam that is not written with a Baha'i audience in mind that I have read part of. "An Introduction To Shi'i Islam".

Ive read it. The whole book. Good. A book on tradition. Shii tradition. Do not think everyone speaks without reading. Read, analyse and understand.

That is not considered Bahai scholarship of the Qur'an or the NT. Read the OP.

 

[firedragon]

Probably he tried to be unbiased. That is what is scholarship to me.

trying to be unbiased is great. But that is not scholarship. Scholarship is studying, analysing, applying methods, developing methods, etc.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I think it's very good to see the good in others (and their Faiths)

Apologetics seems to be for people who feel they need to proselytize, because they need to talk others away from the Religion they now have, into the Religion of the proselytizer

Maybe it is, or maybe that is not an intent.

For me that is not the intent.

Regards Tony

 

[firedragon]

I don't know what site you are talking about

Maybe do some reading through Bahai websites on scholarship.

 

[Truthseeker]

I would like to read up on "Bahai Scholarship". Can you quote me some Bahai scholars who have analysed Bahai scripture in their original language, done some kind of form criticism or literary studies on the original language? Thanks.

Todd Lawson I know has written at least one scholarly book from the original language of the Bab's first work, the Qayyum-i-Asma. Don't remember what it is called. I looked through it, but can't say I understood a lot of it. The Qayyum-i-Asma itself requires a lot of knowledge of the Qur'an to get the significance of it, I understand.

 

[firedragon]

That is not what I call Baha'i scholarship. "Picking up the Bible as they please". Your own bias is showing. Baha'is can interpret the Bible as they want to. They are not hamstrung by some requirement to please the Universal House of Justice. There is no heresy in the usual sense in the Baha'i Faith. No one can be kicked out of the Baha'i Faith by having "mistaken" understandings.

But that is exactly what Bahai scholarship is. And I didnt address who is kicked out of the Bahai faith or not. Thats just a strawman.

 

[firedragon]

Todd Lawson I know has written at least one scholarly book from the original language of the Bab's first work, the Qayyum-i-Asma.

I Have you studied it?

Do you know the Qayyum i Asma is in arabic and there is nothing called "I" in arabic?

Please do not think others have not read your books. Its been years since I have been introduced to the Bahai faith in this forum by your fellow Bahai gentlemen. Alright Truthseeker? If you think you can drop a name, its not going to work. Sorry but I must tell you this firmly.

You have dropped two names, and two books, which none of them you have read. I can tell you very clearly that you have not read your own books.

Its perfectly fine to have not read but dont quote them randomly if you have not. Do you understand?

 

[Truthseeker]

Maybe do some reading through Bahai websites on scholarship.

If there is a Baha'i website that says a particular thing, that is just their opinion. I don't care to go through a bunch of Baha'i websites without knowing what site you are taking about in the first place. Your flaw seems to be you like to argue, that is a flaw according to the Baha'i Faith at least. If I am arguing myself, I am sorry. Baha'is sometimes argue too much.

 

[Truthseeker]

But that is exactly what Bahai scholarship is.

That's what you think Baha'i scholarship is. Please state that this is just your opinion, it is not a fact set in stone.

 

[firedragon]

If there is a Baha'i website that says a particular thing, that is just their opinion. I don't care to go through a bunch of Baha'i websites without knowing what site you are taking about in the first place. Your flaw seems to be you like to argue, that is a flaw according to the Baha'i Faith at least. If I am arguing myself, I am sorry. Baha'is sometimes argue too much.

If you dont even read through Bahai websites, like lets say "Bahai.org", where do you learn your theology from? Is it arbitrary? Just curious.

Try not to do some ad hominem as a strategy. Try to address the OP.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

#MeToo

Yes, I trust God enough to not worry about "humanity as a whole" or "planet earth". Evolution worked miracles in the past, I think evolution will take care of it again

I personally see Empathy for all humanity is a great virtue. Justice also a great virtue. Lasting change requires that we implement virtues and not wait for a better outcome.

History is built upon the people that sought and made change, be it for the better or worse, it was never built by going with the status quo.

The metephor of life is found in waters. The best most pristine life giving water is that that flows from the mountains, moving and turbulent. When it ponds it eventuall becomes stagnated, stagnated water then begins to poison.

Regards Tony

 

[firedragon]

That's what you think Baha'i scholarship is. Please state that this is just your opinion, it is not a fact set in stone.

Read the OP.

Truthseeker. Just accept that you are quoting books written by Bahai's that you have not even read. Just accept it. You will never lose anything by being a little honest.

Then, the next step is, if you have not read a book, dont quote the names. How in the world do you know what they are even saying? What is your methodology??

You will never in your life answer this question but I will ask you nevertheless just to show you how poor your blind fellowship is.

What are the thadhlees levels of the ahadith picked up by Moojan in his book on the Shii tradition?

Can you explain?

Without getting angry, or/and trying to insult someone, try to just answer the question.

 

[Truthseeker]

You have dropped two names, and two books, which none of them you have read. I can tell you very clearly that you have not read your own books.

Where did I say I had not read them? What specific books are you talking about? I told you I read the book about the Qayyum-i-Asma, and didn't relate to a lot of it, and have read part of the Shi'i Islam book. Please stop this! You are getting to the point of attacking my integrity, and being human don't like it.

Perhaps I should just drop responding to you here. That way I won't be getting angry and arguing myself.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Please refer to which scholar exactly you are referring to.

Maybe you could define what a scholar is as a guide to you OP.

Regards Tony

 

[firedragon]

Where did I say I had not read them?

Thats just my opinion.

What specific books are you talking about?

Alright. As I said already, the book on Shii Islam by Moojan. You quoted the name.

I asked you a question. Can you answer it?

What are the thadhlees levels of the ahadith picked up by Moojan in his book on the Shii tradition?

 

[firedragon]

Maybe you could define what a scholar is as a guide to you OP.

Regards Tony

I think its too wide. And I am not speaking of scholars in the OP. I am specifically speaking about what Bahai scholarship is of the NT and the Quran. Not Scholars who are Bahai's.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I would like to read up on "Bahai Scholarship". Can you quote me some Bahai scholars who have analysed Bahai scripture in their original language, done some kind of form criticism or literary studies on the original language? Thanks.

The Bahai scriptures in original hand writing of Baha'u'llah or His scribes, and other original writings are all in Bahai world center library.
Universal House of Justice, which is in Bahai world center has a research department.
When a Bahai have questions regarding anything related in Bahai scriptures or history, they write to them. Then the research department searches in the scriptures and gives them. Their other job is to translate them into other languages.
Their other work, for example is history. They find out when and where a Tablet of Baha'u'llah was revealed.

I believe many works are stored here:

Bahá'í Library Online

But, you already named a couple of them, Mojan for example.

 

[Truthseeker]

Read the OP.

Truthseeker. Just accept that you are quoting books written by Bahai's that you have not even read. Just accept it. You will never lose anything by being a little honest.

Then, the next step is, if you have not read a book, dont quote the names. How in the world do you know what they are even saying? What is your methodology??

You will never in your life answer this question but I will ask you nevertheless just to show you how poor your blind fellowship is.

What are the thadhlees levels of the ahadith picked up by Moojan in his book on the Shii tradition?

Can you explain?

Without getting angry, or/and trying to insult someone, try to just answer the question.

What exactly do you mean by levels of hadith. About different categories that have been defined about their reliability? I can't remember off-hand. I don't have a good memory. It has been a good while since I read the Todd Lawson book, so I retain very little of it because of my poor memory.

If I appear ignorant sometimes, it is not because I have not read something, but because I have trouble retaining it.

 

[firedragon]

The Bahai scriptures in original hand writing of Baha'u'llah or His scribes, and other original writings are all in Bahai world center library.
Universal House of Justice, which is in Bahai world center has a research department.
When a Bahai have questions regarding anything related in Bahai scriptures or history, they write to then. Then the department searches in the scriptures and gives them. Their other job is to translate them into other languages.
Their other work, for example us history. They find out when and where a Tablet of Baha'u'llah was revealed.

I believe many works are stored here:

Bahá'í Library Online

But, you already named a couple of them, Mojan for example.

There is no criticism in any of them. None. So your post does not answer my question.

Moojan does not have a book of that nature anyway. Unless you could quote one for me.