Bahai scholarship of all scripture

[firedragon]

I gave an answer I see is relevant to the OP

Any feedback on that?

Regards Tony

Thats a faith statement. I am not interested. Hope you understand.

 

[firedragon]

Well, probably the closest to this, in Bahai Faith, is process of Authentication of writings, and finding out when, where, and why it was written.
Because, Bahai writings were not transmitted orally and written later. They were all written at the time, by the Central Figures of Bahai Faith.

What kind of methods are used? Is it based on text? Do you do this to the Bible and Quran?

 

[firedragon]

If I say "I don't worry" it just means "I don't worry"

That doesn't imply I don't do my utmost best to do good

Like the Bhagavad Gita's main Teaching learns us
"Do your best, and leave the fruits to God" (don't worry)

May I ask what your stance on Krishna is?

 

[stvdv]

May I ask what your stance on Krishna is?

Do you mean with stance:
Krishna as a person?
The Teachings attributed to Krishna?
Whether or not Krishna historically existed?
If I believe his pictures resemble how he looked?
Or...

Just, so that I know how to answer your question

 

[firedragon]

Do you mean with stance:
Krishna as a person?
The Teachings attributed to Krishna?
Whether or not Krishna historically existed?
If I believe his pictures resemble how he looked?
Or...

Just, so that I know how to answer your question

Is Krishna an avatar of God, or is Krishna the supreme creator?

 

[stvdv]

Is Krishna an avatar of God, or is Krishna the supreme creator?

Aha, good I asked

In Short: I can't answer that question

I have no clue about Krishna, just hearsay from Scriptures (reading) and Sai Baba (hearing), but Krishna never revealed Himself to me as Krishna (I must admit I never prayed to Krishna).

Anyway, also if there is a Supreme Creator then "to fathom that" is way beyond my capacity, as the Universe is way too big already to know, let alone "know about the Creator"

So, I stick to the Teachings that make sense to me. That's already quite a challenge, more practical and hence more doable for me

I could believe there has been an Avatar named Krishna

 

[firedragon]

Aha, good I asked

In Short: I can't answer that question

I have no clue about Krishna, just hearsay from Scriptures (reading) and Sai Baba (hearing), but Krishna never revealed Himself to me as Krishna (I must admit I never prayed to Krishna).

Anyway, also if there is a Supreme Creator then "to fathom that" is way beyond my capacity, as the Universe is way too big already to know, let alone "know about the Creator"

So, I stick to the Teachings that make sense to me. That's already quite a challenge, more practical and hence more doable for me

Interesting. Thanks a lot stvdv. Really appreciate it.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

What kind of methods are used? Is it based on text? Do you do this to the Bible and Quran?

I believe most of it is text based.
I don't know its details. But I also, think, the part which is about when, where and why it was written, could include other criticism methods such as form. I am not that knowledgeable on this subject.
As regards to the Quran, Bahais already believe them to be from God, because it is confirmed by Bahaullah, so, we don't do any criticism about its validity. As regards to the Bible, also Bahais believe it to be inspired by God, as Bahaullah confirmed it.

 

[firedragon]

I believe most of it is text based.

Can you provide a book?

As regards to the Quran, Bahais already believe them to be from God

Thats not scholarship IT. This is the whole point of the OP.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Can you provide a book?

What book do you mean? A book that describes how Bahai writing authentication is done?

Thats not scholarship IT. This is the whole point of the OP.

Correct. If we just accept Quran as word of God, because Baha'u'llah has confirmed it, is not scholarship. It is purely because Bahais believe in Baha'u'llah and trust Him.
But, before trusting and believing in Baha'u'llah, one needs to investigate Him. Only after his investigation lead him to believing Baha'u'llah, then, he would not question Authority of Baha'u'llah. But, if he has not believed in Baha'u'llah, there is no reason to trust Him.

 

[firedragon]

What book do you mean? A book that describes how Bahai writing authentication is done?

OK. Thats great. I would like to read it. Thanks in advance.

Correct. If we just accept Quran as word of God, because Baha'u'llah has confirmed it, is not scholarship. It is purely because Bahais believe in Baha'u'llah and trust Him.
But, before trusting and believing in Baha'u'llah, one needs to investigate Him. Only after his investigation lead him to believing Baha'u'llah, then, he would not question Authority of Baha'u'llah. But, if he has not believed in Baha'u'llah, there is no reason to trust Him.

Thats fine IT. Its your theology and your faith. This thread is not for that.

Hope you understand.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

OK. Thats great. I would like to read it. Thanks in advance.
.

I don't think there is specific book explaining details of how each work of Baha'u'llah was authenticated. Baha'u'llah has over 20,000 works, which includes several millions words.
But, Universal House of Justice (UHJ) has a research department. UHJ, has hired people who have expertise in the field of Authentication. They do all this work. Of course Bahais can always write to UHJ and ask questions. General questions or specific question regarding a specific Tablet of Baha'u'llah.

 

[firedragon]

I don't think there is specific book explaining details of how each work of Baha'u'llah was authenticated. Baha'u'llah has over 20,000 works, which includes several millions words.
But, Universal House of Justice (UHJ) has a research department. UHJ, has hired people who have expertise in the field of Authentication. They do all this work. Of course Bahais can always write to UHJ and ask questions. General questions or specific question regarding a specific Tablet of Baha'u'llah.

Okay. So no book. Thus all you did was just make up apologetics about scholarship on the go!

No worries. What does this team hired by the UHJ do with the Bible for example? What are their scholarly works?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Okay. So no book. Thus all you did was just make up apologetics about scholarship on the go!

UHJ would check their credentials before hiring. So, they hire people who have expertise in the field. The UHJ itself is elected by worldwide Bahai community in three stages. It means, the bests of the bests of the bests chosen among Bahais. So, I mean Bahais trust UHJ because they elected them, themselves, and elections are every five years repeated.

No worries. What does this team hired by the UHJ do with the Bible for example? What are their scholarly works?

I think the duty of UJH research department is only regarding Bahai scriptures, their authentication and translations, and its history. With regards to the Bible, Baha'u'llah wrote it is legitimate (no corruption in Bible text).

major and important parts of the Bible is explained by Baha'u'llah, Abdulbaha and Shoghi Effendi. So, for Bahais, they learn about the Bible through Bahai scriptures, which they believe are revelations.

 

[firedragon]

I think the duty of UJH research department is only regarding Bahai scriptures, their authentication and translations, and its history. With regards to the Bible, Baha'u'llah wrote it is legitimate (no corruption in Bible text).

Thats good for preaching. Bahaullah wrote it is legitimate, no corruption etc etc are just false, and irrelevant. Most importantly, its false. Unscholarly, and unaware of all kinds of scholarship.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Thats good for preaching. Bahaullah wrote it is legitimate, no corruption etc etc are just false, and irrelevant. Most importantly, its false. Unscholarly, and unaware of all kinds of scholarship.

It is not scholarly. But at the end, no scholar could really prove Bible was corrupted, neither any scholar could prove if the Bible was really authored by disciples or not. So, at the end it is upto each person what to believe. At least for Bahais, they don't have problem of doubting authenticity of Scriptures, and it works for them. It makes sense, for God to confirm if Bible is legitimate or not. Bahais believe He confirmed it.

 

[firedragon]

It is not scholarly. But at the end, no scholar could really prove Bible was corrupted

What do you mean "no scholar could really prove Bible was corrupted"?

1. What do you mean by "corruption"?
2. What do you mean "Bible"? Is it the Douay version, Codex Sinaiticus, Vaticanus, Alexandrines, KJV, NIV, or Ethiopian?
3. When you say "no scholar", who are the scholars you do think are great and prove otherwise?

Thanks in advance.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

What do you mean "no scholar could really prove Bible was corrupted"?

1. What do you mean by "corruption"?

I mean, no scholar can prove Bible (NT and OT) are not divinely inspired.
No scholar can prove that the Christians or Jews added verses to the Bible, or removed some verses from the Bible, or made intentional changes to the verses, by altering words and adding and removing words from verses.

2. What do you mean "Bible"? Is it the Douay version, Codex Sinaiticus, Vaticanus, Alexandrines, KJV, NIV, or Ethiopian?

I mean, NT and OT as written in original language (Greek and Hebrew).
The translations can have some incorrect translation or even false. But I am not talking about translations. I am talking about NT and OT in original languages.

3. When you say "no scholar", who are the scholars you do think are great and prove otherwise?

Good question.
I mean anyone who says he is a scholar, or anyone others call him scholar.
Let me say it differently. No one can prove the Bible became corrupted, no one can prove it is from God, no one can prove if it was written by the disciples. At the same time no one can disprove either. But everyone can do their own investigation and make a decision for themselves. It is about the text. To my perception, the verses and stories in Bible cannot be inventions. I see them as divinely inspired. But this is my perception, just you see the world, and your perception may tell you this world must have been created by a God. Atheists perception does not tell them it is created by a God. So, is really with Scriptures.

Thanks in advance.

Well, I hope I make any sense.

 

[firedragon]

No scholar can prove that the Christians or Jews added verses to the Bible, or removed some verses from the Bible, or made intentional changes to the verses, by altering words and adding and removing words from verses.

Amply done.

I mean, NT and OT as written in original language (Greek and Hebrew).
The translations can have some incorrect translation or even false. But I am not talking about translations. I am talking about NT and OT in original languages.

Language is irrelevant to what I asked.

Let me say it differently. No one can prove the Bible became corrupted, no one can prove it is from God, no one can prove if it was written by the disciples. At the same time no one can disprove either. But everyone can do their own investigation and make a decision for themselves. It is about the text. To my perception, the verses and stories in Bible cannot be inventions. I see them as divinely inspired. But this is my perception, just you see the world, and your perception may tell you this world must have been created by a God. Atheists perception does not tell them it is created by a God. So, is really with Scriptures.

Maybe you should read some scholarly books. This has nothing to do with atheists. Thats just a genetic fallacy. "I see" is not valid. I can see many things, but must use some methodology, not just an evangelical "I see" type of preaching which you are implying over and over again.

 

[danieldemol]

Please give an example. Thanks.

Was Jesus Crucified? | About Islam

In my opinion.