Brian2
Veteran Member
Why is it that you don't agree that the Bible tells us that all humans are brothers and sisters from Genesis on?
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Bahai's and the Bible. Errant or Inerrant. Holistic or cherry picking?
- Thread starter firedragon
- Start date
Why is it that you don't agree that the Bible tells us that all humans are brothers and sisters from Genesis on?
Brian2
Veteran Member
They aren't told to watch so that they do not miss His coming.
Luke 21:34 “Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you suddenly like a trap. 35 For it will come on all those who live on the face of the whole earth. 36 Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”
We are told to watch and pray so that we will be prepared when it comes. It will come suddenly and unexpectedly for most, like a thief in the night, when many will relax and think that it will not happen, but when it does we will all know.
Brian2
Veteran Member
John 14:15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
Jesus promised His disciples of 2000 years ago to send them the Spirit of Truth which the world cannot accept because it does not see nor know Him. But this Spirit of Truth was going to be known by those disciples because He would live with and in them. Jesus did not leave them as orphans, He came to them in the Holy Spirit which He sent and the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth, which is something that these verses below show us.
John 14:26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
John 15:26 “When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me.
So the Advocate is the Holy Spirit according to John 14:26 and the Advocate is the Spirit of Truth according to John 15:26.
That means the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth.
The Holy Spirit was sent to those disciples as per Acts 2 and so the Spirit of Truth was sent to them and the Advocate was sent to them at that time also because they just different names for the same thing.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Hmm. Since anyway this thread since the beginning has been meticulously derailed, why not.
There is some discrimination in the Bible. Read from Deuteronomy 23. Why would a man with genital mutilation be not allowed in the assembly of the lord? Is not he spiritually the same as any other? Is not that discrimination? Same goes to one with illegitimate birth, an ammonite, and a moabite. Alright, lets leave an ammonite and a moabite, but what about someone who had an illegitimate birth? What did he do wrong?
In Leviticus 21, it says very explicitly that a person with some disability including a battered genital cannot do priestly services! Oh I think that's discrimination. Also, why should a Malakoi or a "soft man" be put together with drunkards, thieves and other sinners? Is not that discrimination?
All humans are brothers and sisters you say brother? Think about this. Lets say in some town or a village some people are preaching a different religion, drawing people away from your religion or the religion of the book of Deuteronomy, is that fair to kill the inhabitants of that town? I mean it says "annihilate". Not only the people, but also the livestock. Then you are supposed to gather all the stuff in that village or town and burn them as an offering to God. Well, you think they are brothers and sisters in Deuteronomy? Its Deutoronomy chapter 13.
Hope you understand.
You said:
What about the rest of it?
30“At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the
peoples of the earthc will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the
clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels
with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds,
from one end of the heavens to the other.
I didn’t go into it in depth because i didn’t want to burden the hearer.
But if it be your wish, I’m happy to discuss it further.
There were signs in both the physical sky and spiritual sky. The star fall of 1833 was followed by the Great Comet of 1843. Accompanying every Manifestations are such signs. In the heavenly sky there were the heralds of the Bab Shaykh Ahmad and Sayyid Karimi. The Bab was the Herald of Baha’u’llah.
The people will mourn - the lack of a Jesus or Prophet to guide them and eagerly await the Promised One.
The promised One shall appear then from God, sky denoting from the heavenly realm of God, clouds - in an earthly human body. Just as clouds obscure the light of the sun, so the light of truth and spiritual power and great glory of the Promised One will be veiled behind the clouds of the human body. To see Him will require spiritual perception.
His angels are His followers, martyrs and detached beings who are prepared to die for His Cause.
His Cause is now spreading and has spread to all the corners of the globe.
There is only one authoritative interpretation of these passages and it’s in the Book of Certitude, by Baha’u’llah. That is why I referred you to it.
firedragon
Veteran Member
1. He is supposed to appear in the sky.
2. All the people on earth will mourn when that happens.
John 14:26
So although Christ was with His disciples when He told them that, the Holy Spirit was not with Christ??? They didn’t learn from Christ and so had to have another Holy Spirit sent to them? Christ was born of the Holy Spirit and it was with Him every second so if His teaching them was not adequate then what good is the Holy Spirit? Unless He was referring to the One to come after Him.
Kindly consider this explanation from Abdul-Baha.
Firstly. He sayeth: He shall not come unless I go away. This utterance indicates that He, the Spirit, the Comforter was not there at the time of Christ and that He would come afterwards. But the Holy Spirit was inseparably and always co-existing with Christ. So there would otherwise be no meaning to the saying: He shall not come unless I go away.
Secondly. He said: I have many things to explain to you but you do not posses the capacity to bear them; but that Sanctified Spirit of Truth will expound these things and lead you into all truth.
Now consider further: In accord with Christian Teaching, the Holy Spirit is the Third Hypostasis and the Spirit Jesus Christ is the Second Hypostasis. Could it be the case that after all the training imparted by the two Hypostases the veils of ignorance and lack of knowledge were not torn asunder and the disciples were not confirmed with the full guidance of truth?
Were they then after the ascension of that Supreme Luminary receiving the hidden unseen mysteries and the concealed and sealed Lordly wisdoms from the Third Hypostasis? Did they then only become able to hear these truths?
Rather it is obvious that if under the shade of guidance of that Essence of Essences and the Spirit of Spirits and with all the confirmations of the Holy spirit if souls be not educated and trained, and, if the soul’s dark veils were still not burned away, then the breaths of the Holy spirit [alone] would have no effect for a hundred thousand years. And herein is manifest and recognizable truth. (Abdul-Baha)
John 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
So Christ was in heaven while He walked the earth. How can that be if by heaven or sky is meant only the literal sky?
Christ’s Spirit comes from heaven, from God.
If His coming is from the physical sky then people will celebrate not mourn.
However, mourning indicates unhappiness and depression and the world is full of mourning, depression and unhappiness now because they have missed the return of Christ and so are stuck in a materialistic world which only causes mourning and unhappiness.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
You asked: What about the rest of it?
30“At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the
peoples of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the
clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels
with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds,
from one end of the heavens to the other.
TNIV
It just so happens that I posted a thread entitled Son of Man Coming in the Clouds on my forum six years ago, so I will copy it and paste it here. That is the best way to answer your question since it is directly from the Writings of Baha'u'llah. It becomes abundantly clear that Baha'u'llah fulfilled that prophecy if you understand what Baha'u'llah wrote, coupled with what happened when Baha'u'llah appeared. However, if you are waiting for the same man Jesus to literally come down on the physical clouds from the sky, and you are waiting for actual angels and trumpets to play music, you, like the Christians, will have to keep waiting for an event that will never come to pass.
And now, concerning His words: “And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven.” By these words it is meant that when the sun of the heavenly teachings hath been eclipsed, the stars of the divinely-established laws have fallen, and the moon of true knowledge—the educator of mankind—hath been obscured; when the standards of guidance and felicity have been reversed, and the morn of truth and righteousness hath sunk in night, then shall the sign of the Son of man appear in heaven. By “heaven” is meant the visible heaven, inasmuch as when the hour draweth nigh on which the Day-star of the heaven of justice shall be made manifest, and the Ark of divine guidance shall sail upon the sea of glory, a star will appear in the heaven, heralding unto its people the advent of that most great light. In like manner, in the invisible heaven a star shall be made manifest who, unto the peoples of the earth, shall act as a harbinger of the break of that true and exalted Morn. These twofold signs, in the visible and the invisible heaven, have announced the Revelation of each of the Prophets of God, as is commonly believed.
Among the Prophets was Abraham, the Friend of God. Ere He manifested Himself, Nimrod dreamed a dream. Thereupon, he summoned the soothsayers, who informed him of the rise of a star in the heaven. Likewise, there appeared a herald who announced throughout the land the coming of Abraham.
After Him came Moses, He Who held converse with God. The soothsayers of His time warned Pharaoh in these terms: “A star hath risen in the heaven, and lo! it foreshadoweth the conception of a Child Who holdeth your fate and the fate of your people in His hand.” In like manner, there appeared a sage who, in the darkness of the night, brought tidings of joy unto the people of Israel, imparting consolation to their souls, and assurance to their hearts. To this testify the records of the sacred books.
In like manner, when the hour of the Revelation of Jesus drew nigh, a few of the Magi, aware that the star of Jesus had appeared in heaven, sought and followed it, till they came unto the city which was the seat of the Kingdom of Herod. The sway of his sovereignty in those days embraced the whole of that land. The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 61-64
And now concerning this wondrous and most exalted Cause. Know thou verily that many an astronomer hath announced the appearance of its star in the visible heaven. Likewise, there appeared on earth Ahmad and Kázim, 26 those twin resplendent lights—may God sanctify their resting-place! The Kitáb-i-Íqán, p. 66
From all that We have stated it hath become clear and manifest that before the revelation of each of the Mirrors reflecting the divine Essence, the signs heralding their advent must needs be revealed in the visible heaven as well as in the invisible, wherein is the seat of the sun of knowledge, of the moon of wisdom, and of the stars of understanding and utterance. The sign of the invisible heaven must needs be revealed in the person of that perfect man who, before each Manifestation appeareth, educateth, and prepareth the souls of men for the advent of the divine Luminary, the Light of the unity of God amongst men.
And now, with reference to His words: “And then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.” These words signify that in those days men will lament the loss of the Sun of the divine beauty, of the Moon of knowledge, and of the Stars of divine wisdom. Thereupon, they will behold the countenance of the promised One, the adored Beauty, descending from heaven and riding upon the clouds. By this is meant that the divine Beauty will be made manifest from the heaven of the will of God, and will appear in the form of the human temple. The term “heaven” denoteth loftiness and exaltation, inasmuch as it is the seat of the revelation of those Manifestations of Holiness, the Day-springs of ancient glory. These ancient Beings, though delivered from the womb of their mother, have in reality descended from the heaven of the will of God. Though they be dwelling on this earth, yet their true habitations are the retreats of glory in the realms above. Whilst walking amongst mortals, they soar in the heaven of the divine presence. Without feet they tread the path of the spirit, and without wings they rise unto the exalted heights of divine unity. With every fleeting breath they cover the immensity of space, and at every moment traverse the kingdoms of the visible and the invisible. Upon their thrones is written: “Nothing whatsoever keepeth Him from being occupied with any other thing;” and on their seats is inscribed: “Verily, His ways differ every day.” 27 They are sent forth through the transcendent power of the Ancient of Days, and are raised up by the exalted will of God, the most mighty King. This is what is meant by the words: “coming in the clouds of heaven.” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 66-67
(Continued on next post)
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
By these luminous, these conclusive, and lucid statements, the meaning of “heaven” in the aforementioned verse hath thus been made clear and evident. And now regarding His words, that the Son of man shall “come in the clouds of heaven.” By the term “clouds” is meant those things that are contrary to the ways and desires of men. Even as He hath revealed in the verse already quoted: “As oft as an Apostle cometh unto you with that which your souls desire not, ye swell with pride, accusing some of being impostors and slaying others.” 31 These “clouds” signify, in one sense, the annulment of laws, the abrogation of former Dispensations, the repeal of rituals and customs current amongst men, the exalting of the illiterate faithful above the learned opposers of the Faith. In another sense, they mean the appearance of that immortal Beauty in the image of mortal man, with such human limitations as eating and drinking, poverty and riches, glory and abasement, sleeping and waking, and such other things as cast doubt in the minds of men, and cause them to turn away. All such veils are symbolically referred to as “clouds.”
These are the “clouds” that cause the heavens of the knowledge and understanding of all that dwell on earth to be cloven asunder. Even as He hath revealed: “On that day shall the heaven be cloven by the clouds.” 32 Even as the clouds prevent the eyes of men from beholding the sun, so do these things hinder the souls of men from recognizing the light of the divine Luminary. To this beareth witness that which hath proceeded out of the mouth of the unbelievers as revealed in the sacred Book: “And they have said: ‘What manner of apostle is this? He eateth food, and walketh the streets. Unless an angel be sent down and take part in His warnings, we will not believe.’” 33 Other Prophets, similarly, have been subject to poverty and afflictions, to hunger, and to the ills and chances of this world. As these holy Persons were subject to such needs and wants, the people were, consequently, lost in the wilds of misgivings and doubts, and were afflicted with bewilderment and perplexity. How, they wondered, could such a person be sent down from God, assert His ascendancy over all the peoples and kindreds of the earth, and claim Himself to be the goal of all creation,—even as He hath said: “But for Thee, I would not have created all that are in heaven and on earth,”—and yet be subject to such trivial things? You must undoubtedly have been informed of the tribulations, the poverty, the ills, and the degradation that have befallen every Prophet of God and His companions. You must have heard how the heads of their followers were sent as presents unto different cities, how grievously they were hindered from that whereunto they were commanded. Each and every one of them fell a prey to the hands of the enemies of His Cause, and had to suffer whatsoever they decreed.
The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 71-73
As the adherents of Jesus have never understood the hidden meaning of these words, and as the signs which they and the leaders of their Faith have expected have failed to appear, they therefore refused to acknowledge, even until now, the truth of those Manifestations of Holiness that have since the days of Jesus been made manifest. They have thus deprived themselves of the outpourings of God’s holy grace, and of the wonders of His divine utterance. Such is their low estate in this, the Day of Resurrection! They have even failed to perceive that were the signs of the Manifestation of God in every age to appear in the visible realm in accordance with the text of established traditions, none could possibly deny or turn away, nor would the blessed be distinguished from the miserable, and the transgressor from the God-fearing. Judge fairly: Were the prophecies recorded in the Gospel to be literally fulfilled; were Jesus, Son of Mary, accompanied by angels, to descend from the visible heaven upon the clouds; who would dare to disbelieve, who would dare to reject the truth, and wax disdainful? Nay, such consternation would immediately seize all the dwellers of the earth that no soul would feel able to utter a word, much less to reject or accept the truth. It was owing to their misunderstanding of these truths that many a Christian divine hath objected to Muhammad, and voiced his protest in such words: “If Thou art in truth the promised Prophet, why then art Thou not accompanied by those angels our sacred Books foretold, and which must needs descend with the promised Beauty to assist Him in His Revelation and act as warners unto His people?” Even as the All-Glorious hath recorded their statement: “Why hath not an angel been sent down to him, so that he should have been a warner with Him?” 1
Such objections and differences have persisted in every age and century. The people have always busied themselves with such specious discourses, vainly protesting: “Wherefore hath not this or that sign appeared?” Such ills befell them only because they have clung to the ways of the divines of the age in which they lived, and blindly imitated them in accepting or denying these Essences of Detachment, these holy and divine Beings. These leaders, owing to their immersion in selfish desires, and their pursuit of transitory and sordid things, have regarded these divine Luminaries as being opposed to the standards of their knowledge and understanding, and the opponents of their ways and judgments. As they have literally interpreted the Word of God, and the sayings and traditions of the Letters of Unity, and expounded them according to their own deficient understanding, they have therefore deprived themselves and all their people of the bountiful showers of the grace and mercies of God. And yet they bear witness to this well-known tradition: “Verily Our Word is abstruse, bewilderingly abstruse.” In another instance, it is said: “Our Cause is sorely trying, highly perplexing; none can bear it except a favorite of heaven, or an inspired Prophet, or he whose faith God hath tested.” These leaders of religion admit that none of these three specified conditions is applicable to them. The first two conditions are manifestly beyond their reach; as to the third, it is evident that at no time have they been proof against those tests that have been sent by God, and that when the divine Touchstone appeared, they have shown themselves to be naught but dross.
The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 80-83
These are the “clouds” that cause the heavens of the knowledge and understanding of all that dwell on earth to be cloven asunder. Even as He hath revealed: “On that day shall the heaven be cloven by the clouds.” 32 Even as the clouds prevent the eyes of men from beholding the sun, so do these things hinder the souls of men from recognizing the light of the divine Luminary. To this beareth witness that which hath proceeded out of the mouth of the unbelievers as revealed in the sacred Book: “And they have said: ‘What manner of apostle is this? He eateth food, and walketh the streets. Unless an angel be sent down and take part in His warnings, we will not believe.’” 33 Other Prophets, similarly, have been subject to poverty and afflictions, to hunger, and to the ills and chances of this world. As these holy Persons were subject to such needs and wants, the people were, consequently, lost in the wilds of misgivings and doubts, and were afflicted with bewilderment and perplexity. How, they wondered, could such a person be sent down from God, assert His ascendancy over all the peoples and kindreds of the earth, and claim Himself to be the goal of all creation,—even as He hath said: “But for Thee, I would not have created all that are in heaven and on earth,”—and yet be subject to such trivial things? You must undoubtedly have been informed of the tribulations, the poverty, the ills, and the degradation that have befallen every Prophet of God and His companions. You must have heard how the heads of their followers were sent as presents unto different cities, how grievously they were hindered from that whereunto they were commanded. Each and every one of them fell a prey to the hands of the enemies of His Cause, and had to suffer whatsoever they decreed.
The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 71-73
As the adherents of Jesus have never understood the hidden meaning of these words, and as the signs which they and the leaders of their Faith have expected have failed to appear, they therefore refused to acknowledge, even until now, the truth of those Manifestations of Holiness that have since the days of Jesus been made manifest. They have thus deprived themselves of the outpourings of God’s holy grace, and of the wonders of His divine utterance. Such is their low estate in this, the Day of Resurrection! They have even failed to perceive that were the signs of the Manifestation of God in every age to appear in the visible realm in accordance with the text of established traditions, none could possibly deny or turn away, nor would the blessed be distinguished from the miserable, and the transgressor from the God-fearing. Judge fairly: Were the prophecies recorded in the Gospel to be literally fulfilled; were Jesus, Son of Mary, accompanied by angels, to descend from the visible heaven upon the clouds; who would dare to disbelieve, who would dare to reject the truth, and wax disdainful? Nay, such consternation would immediately seize all the dwellers of the earth that no soul would feel able to utter a word, much less to reject or accept the truth. It was owing to their misunderstanding of these truths that many a Christian divine hath objected to Muhammad, and voiced his protest in such words: “If Thou art in truth the promised Prophet, why then art Thou not accompanied by those angels our sacred Books foretold, and which must needs descend with the promised Beauty to assist Him in His Revelation and act as warners unto His people?” Even as the All-Glorious hath recorded their statement: “Why hath not an angel been sent down to him, so that he should have been a warner with Him?” 1
Such objections and differences have persisted in every age and century. The people have always busied themselves with such specious discourses, vainly protesting: “Wherefore hath not this or that sign appeared?” Such ills befell them only because they have clung to the ways of the divines of the age in which they lived, and blindly imitated them in accepting or denying these Essences of Detachment, these holy and divine Beings. These leaders, owing to their immersion in selfish desires, and their pursuit of transitory and sordid things, have regarded these divine Luminaries as being opposed to the standards of their knowledge and understanding, and the opponents of their ways and judgments. As they have literally interpreted the Word of God, and the sayings and traditions of the Letters of Unity, and expounded them according to their own deficient understanding, they have therefore deprived themselves and all their people of the bountiful showers of the grace and mercies of God. And yet they bear witness to this well-known tradition: “Verily Our Word is abstruse, bewilderingly abstruse.” In another instance, it is said: “Our Cause is sorely trying, highly perplexing; none can bear it except a favorite of heaven, or an inspired Prophet, or he whose faith God hath tested.” These leaders of religion admit that none of these three specified conditions is applicable to them. The first two conditions are manifestly beyond their reach; as to the third, it is evident that at no time have they been proof against those tests that have been sent by God, and that when the divine Touchstone appeared, they have shown themselves to be naught but dross.
The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 80-83
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firedragon
Veteran Member
firedragon
Veteran Member
You know, when you quote for example pp 80-83, I dont know what that means! This is chapter 89 for me.
Anyway, whats your whole point with this?
firedragon
Veteran Member
The thing with this is, you are just quoting a belief statement. You are not addressing the text. These kind of statements are just random. Its not valid. The whole earth is mourning because they missed the return of Christ? SO the world was not mourning, no depression, no unhappiness before Bahaullah?
I think you should read up a bit about the evolution of the society of the world at large. It is not true that people are more depressed, mourning etc etc. Its just assumption that people make as usual, not based on study or any kind of research. This point is not based on anything, but a faith based polemical assumption.
The text says "all tribes of the world will mourn when the son of man comes", not after he comes, and not because they missed his advent. Thats absolutely false. Also, you still did not complete the verse. It says "They will see the son of man.....".
Dont tell me suddenly after addressing the tribes of the whole world, the writer changes it to "a few people". The whole world will see the son of man coming.
Please LOH. Lets not cherry pick from a cherry picked verse. I hope you understand.
firedragon
Veteran Member
That is him refuting the Christian belief that this comforter, the paraklete, was the Holy Spirit. Thats irrelevant to the Son of man episode in the Gospel of Matthew. A completely different subject altogether.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The Advocate/Comforter is a Title for the man who brings the Holy Spirit, but the Advocate/Comforter can also be thought of as the Holy Spirit since it is the Bounty of God that comforts people. God sent the Comforter/Holy Spirit when He sent Jesus. Then later God sent another Comforter in Jesus' name.
So Jesus was an Advocate/Comforter and Baha’u’llah was another Advocate/another Comforter.
In the following verses, Jesus promises to send another Comforter:
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
In the following verses, Jesus promises to send the Spirit of Truth:
John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for hedwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 16:12-13 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
One of the various proofs of Baha’u’llah is that He did exactly what Jesus said the Comforter and Spirit of truth would do. Referring to Jesus, Baha’u’llah testified of Jesus and glorified Jesus.
John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John 16:13-14 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Baha’u’llah testified of Jesus and glorified Jesus:
“We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 86
Baha’u’llah also fulfilled the other translation of John 15:26 by bearing witness to Jesus.
John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes forth from with the Father, *he* shall bear witness concerning me;
“We bear witness that through the power of the Word of God every leper was cleansed, every sickness was healed, every human infirmity was banished. He it is Who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 86
(Continued on next post)
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The Advocate/Comforter is a Title for the man who brings the Holy Spirit, but the Advocate/Comforter can also be thought of as the Holy Spirit since it is the Bounty of God that comforts people. God sent the Comforter/Holy Spirit when He sent Jesus. Then later God sent another Comforter in Jesus' name.
So Jesus was an Advocate/Comforter and Baha’u’llah was another Advocate/another Comforter.
In the following verses, Jesus promises to send another Comforter:
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
In the following verses, Jesus promises to send the Spirit of Truth:
John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for hedwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 16:12-13 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
One of the various proofs of Baha’u’llah is that He did exactly what Jesus said the Comforter and Spirit of truth would do. Referring to Jesus, Baha’u’llah testified of Jesus and glorified Jesus.
John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John 16:13-14 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Baha’u’llah testified of Jesus and glorified Jesus:
“We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 86
Baha’u’llah also fulfilled the other translation of John 15:26 by bearing witness to Jesus.
John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes forth from with the Father, *he* shall bear witness concerning me;
“We bear witness that through the power of the Word of God every leper was cleansed, every sickness was healed, every human infirmity was banished. He it is Who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 86
(Continued on next post)
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The Holy Spirit since it is the Bounty of God that Comforts people and is their Advocate.
Just as the Advocate is a Title for the man who brings the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth is a Title for the man who brings the Holy Spirit, and the Advocate is the same as the Spirit of Truth because they both refer to the same man, Baha’u’llah.
I believe that the Holy Spirit was sent by God on the Day of Pentecost because that is in the Bible...
Acts 2:1-4 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
But that does not mean that the verses in John 14, John 15 and John 16 are referring to the Day of Pentecost. There is no logical reason to think that these verses in John that refer to the Holy Spirit are referring to the Day of Pentecost, but that came to be a Church teaching, so Christians just accepted it and believe it to this very day.
The problem with the Christian belief that the Holy Spirit was sent once and for all time on the Day of Pentecost is that right in that same chapter, we have this account that says that God will send the Holy Spirit again in the last days. The last days are when Christ promised to return and fulfill the prophecies below (Matthew 24:29-30, Mark 13:24-26) which are the same as what is found in Revelation 6:12-13.
Acts 2:17-21 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Acts 2:17-21 fits together perfectly with the following verses in John where Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit from the Father.
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
All he prophecies in the Acts 2:17-21 have been fulfilled and they are the same prophecies in other verses that are noted below. This is the evidence that shows us that the Son of man has already returned.
Rev 6:12-13 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood. And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Matthew 24:29-30 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mark 13:24-26”But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Those are the pages numbers from The Kitab-i-Iqan in case you want to refer to the book. Pages 41-80 are all on one link, so I included the page numbers of what I quoted so it would be easier to find the text.
Referring to:
30“At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the
peoples of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the
clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels
with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds,
from one end of the heavens to the other.
You asked: What about the rest of it?
What Baha'u'llah write in the Kitab-i-Iqan covers all of that verse, so it covers the rest of it that was not covered by @ loverofhumanity.
firedragon
Veteran Member
firedragon
Veteran Member
Okay okay. No worries. I have the Pdf that coincides with the original arabic. So, its kind of confusing when you quote page numbers. But no worries. I got it.
Of course. TB, I have read this, from cover to cover. I know what was covered. I of course dont agree with any of this, but I know that Bahaullah covered it. I was asking LOH because he does not. (Now dont tell me LOH is a sister)