Bahaullah: Gawhar Khanum

[danieldemol]

If it is just a conspiracy theory, then why was the original never published and is still held under lock and key in the International Baha'i Archives in Haifa? If Shoghi Effendi was really doing a faithful translation, then there would have been no reason to withhold the original text from Persian readers

According to the Wikipedia article;
‘Significant portions of the original text were included in the eight volumes of the Tarikh Zuhur al-Haqq, a history of the Bábí and Bahá'í religions which includes copious documentary material, written and compiled by the Iranian Bahá'í scholar Mírzá Asadu’llah Fádil Mázandarání in the late 1930s and early 1940s and has been published in Persian online.’

 

[danieldemol]

I think I found Tarikh Zuhur al-Haqq online in Persian here;
Collected Works of Fadil Mazandarani

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I think I found Tarikh Zuhur al-Haqq online in Persian here;
Collected Works of Fadil Mazandarani

This is relevant and I can see why it will take some time before a full translation can be done.

It seems the copy that Baha'u'llah corrected was stolen in the documents taken from Abdul-baha.

The copy Shoghi Effendi had was the original uncorrected copy.

Second half of Nabil’s Narrative? : bahai

"....Nabíl started writing his history in the year 1887–8 and it took him a year and a half to complete (NZ 57). In the preface to The Dawn-Breakers, Nabíl states that what he has recorded is ‘a description of the episodes I myself have witnessed, as well as those that have been reported to me by trustworthy and recognised informants, specifying in every case their names and standing’ (DB lxiii). According to a statement made by the Research Department at the World Centre, the following process for submission of his work to Bahá’u’lláh is described: ‘Nabíl composed the draft pages of his history without any extensive reediting or corrections and submitted them in quires to Mírzá Áqá Ján. Upon their return to Nabíl, ten months after the submission of the final quire, with corrections to be made (how these corrections were indicated is not explained), Nabíl made the requested corrections to the text of the draft manuscript as well as adding an appendix containing further material from the Baghdad period which had been omitted’ (RD 9/11/05).

As stated by the Research Department, corrections had to be made to his original draft. What was available to the beloved Guardian was only the original uncorrected draft. In God Passes By, Shoghi Effendi points out that Muḥammad-‘Alí and his family ‘carried off, by a ruse, the two satchels containing [Bahá’u’lláh’s] most precious documents’ (GPB 249) immediately after the ascension of Bahá’u’lláh. Among the stolen documents, according to a Tablet revealed by ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, was the text of the corrected version of Nabíl’s narrative..."

Regards Tony

 

[Komori]

Because the sun does not need to declare its station as the sun, a sufficiently observant person will perceive it’s light.

Tahirih is attested to have written in her letter by Nabil, “The effulgence of the Abhá Beauty hath pierced the veil of night; behold the souls of His lovers dancing, moth-like, in the light that has flashed from His face!” the “Abha beauty” being a reference to Baha’u’llah

The quote in question is not, according to The Dawn-Breakers, from a letter to Nabil — I know of no such thing — but a poem which she is attested to have written. And the keyword is 'attested.' Here is the text from the Persian translation of The Dawn-Breakers:

شمس ابهى جلوه گر گرديد و جان عاشقان
در هواى طلعتش چون ذره رقصان آمده
​

I have searched for this poem and have not found it anywhere other than The Dawn-Breakers. It is a translation, but I have found nothing resembling it in the collection of Tahirih's poems available at bayanic.com or the collection of Babi poetry published and translated by E.G. Browne in Materials for the Study of the Babi Religion (pp. 343-358). Mazandarani, who saw the original manuscript of Nabil's Narrative, does not appear to cite it either, so what seems most likely to me is that the poem attributed to Tahirih is one of Shoghi Effendi's many interpolations to the original. But even if we assume that this was part of Nabil's original narrative, there are many possibilities here, among which are the possibility that Nabil fabricated the poem. Nabil was a poet himself and the author of numerous poems in praise of Baha'u'llah, and it would not have been out of character for him to do anything. Nabil himself, all of this aside, has relatively little credibility as a historian. He was constantly flip-flopping on his claims. Originally, he was one of the claimants to being He Whom God shall make manifest and authored poetry such as this (see Browne, Materials for the Study of the Babi Religion, p. 352):

صمدم ز عالم سرمدم احدم ز کشور لا حدم
I am Eternal from the Everlasting World; I am the One from the Realms of the Limitless.
​

Following the murder of Dayyan, another claimant to the title of He Whom God shall make manifest, Nabil became a follower of Baha'u'llah, but later, according to the Babi historians Shaykh Ahmad Ruhi and Mirza Agha Khan Kirmani in their Hasht Bihisht (Persian), Nabil began to make claims again, an action for which he was subsequently murdered by the Baha'is.
The most reliable source for Babi history is and will always be the Nuqtat al-Kaf by Hajji Mirza Jani Kashani (a companion of the Bab), which is the earliest such history, having been written in 1851-1852, long before Nabil is said to have written the history attributed to him, making him much more of a reliable eye-witness than Nabil.
But I digress. Even if we allow the Baha'is as much charity as possible and assume that Tahirih did write the poem which is attributed to her, it does not lend any credence to Baha'u'llah's claim, and 'Abha beauty' is more likely a reference to the Bab. The Baha'i fascination with the word Baha and its derivatives is completely baseless. The title Baha'u'llah is self-assumed. In the Bab's correspondence with Baha'u'llah he simply refers to him as '238,' which is the numerical value of 'Husayn Ali,' so it is ridiculous to comb through the statements from the Bab and others and interpret any usage of the word baha as a reference to Baha'u'llah. In reality, the title Baha'u'llah belonged to Tahirih, as illustrated here Baha's Grounds of Pretension - Title of Baha, Unauthorized And Self-Assumed. And likewise, the idea that baha is the Greatest Name of Allah (al-ism al-'azam allah) is similarly ridiculous. Baha (glory/splendour) is not a divine name (ism); it's an attribute (sifat). All of the divine names in the Qur'an and likewise in the writings of the Bab are nouns ('asma').

According to the Wikipedia article;
‘Significant portions of the original text were included in the eight volumes of the Tarikh Zuhur al-Haqq, a history of the Bábí and Bahá'í religions which includes copious documentary material, written and compiled by the Iranian Bahá'í scholar Mírzá Asadu’llah Fádil Mázandarání in the late 1930s and early 1940s and has been published in Persian online.’

And there are numerous differences between the text as cited by Mazandarani and as cited by Shoghi Effendi, some of which are detailed here Baha's Grounds of Pretension - Title of Baha, Unauthorized And Self-Assumed

 

[paarsurrey]

The quote in question is not, according to The Dawn-Breakers, from a letter to Nabil — I know of no such thing — but a poem which she is attested to have written. And the keyword is 'attested.' Here is the text from the Persian translation of The Dawn-Breakers:

شمس ابهى جلوه گر گرديد و جان عاشقان
در هواى طلعتش چون ذره رقصان آمده
​

I have searched for this poem and have not found it anywhere other than The Dawn-Breakers. It is a translation, but I have found nothing resembling it in the collection of Tahirih's poems available at bayanic.com or the collection of Babi poetry published and translated by E.G. Browne in Materials for the Study of the Babi Religion (pp. 343-358). Mazandarani, who saw the original manuscript of Nabil's Narrative, does not appear to cite it either, so what seems most likely to me is that the poem attributed to Tahirih is one of Shoghi Effendi's many interpolations to the original. But even if we assume that this was part of Nabil's original narrative, there are many possibilities here, among which are the possibility that Nabil fabricated the poem. Nabil was a poet himself and the author of numerous poems in praise of Baha'u'llah, and it would not have been out of character for him to do anything. Nabil himself, all of this aside, has relatively little credibility as a historian. He was constantly flip-flopping on his claims. Originally, he was one of the claimants to being He Whom God shall make manifest and authored poetry such as this (see Browne, Materials for the Study of the Babi Religion, p. 352):

صمدم ز عالم سرمدم احدم ز کشور لا حدم
I am Eternal from the Everlasting World; I am the One from the Realms of the Limitless.
​

Following the murder of Dayyan, another claimant to the title of He Whom God shall make manifest, Nabil became a follower of Baha'u'llah, but later, according to the Babi historians Shaykh Ahmad Ruhi and Mirza Agha Khan Kirmani in their Hasht Bihisht (Persian), Nabil began to make claims again, an action for which he was subsequently murdered by the Baha'is.
The most reliable source for Babi history is and will always be the Nuqtat al-Kaf by Hajji Mirza Jani Kashani (a companion of the Bab), which is the earliest such history, having been written in 1851-1852, long before Nabil is said to have written the history attributed to him, making him much more of a reliable eye-witness than Nabil.
But I digress. Even if we allow the Baha'is as much charity as possible and assume that Tahirih did write the poem which is attributed to her, it does not lend any credence to Baha'u'llah's claim, and 'Abha beauty' is more likely a reference to the Bab. The Baha'i fascination with the word Baha and its derivatives is completely baseless. The title Baha'u'llah is self-assumed. In the Bab's correspondence with Baha'u'llah he simply refers to him as '238,' which is the numerical value of 'Husayn Ali,' so it is ridiculous to comb through the statements from the Bab and others and interpret any usage of the word baha as a reference to Baha'u'llah. In reality, the title Baha'u'llah belonged to Tahirih, as illustrated here Baha's Grounds of Pretension - Title of Baha, Unauthorized And Self-Assumed. And likewise, the idea that baha is the Greatest Name of Allah (al-ism al-'azam allah) is similarly ridiculous. Baha (glory/splendour) is not a divine name (ism); it's an attribute (sifat). All of the divine names in the Qur'an and likewise in the writings of the Bab are nouns ('asma').


And there are numerous differences between the text as cited by Mazandarani and as cited by Shoghi Effendi, some of which are detailed here Baha's Grounds of Pretension - Title of Baha, Unauthorized And Self-Assumed

One has "revealed" many good clues in one's post about the self-assumed title of "Bahaullah" and Shoghi Effendi and their craftiness becomes evident. I find many such examples of it inter-woven in the Iqan "The Book of Certitude". Right, please?

Regards

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The quote in question is not, according to The Dawn-Breakers, from a letter to Nabil — I know of no such thing — but a poem which she is attested to have written. And the keyword is 'attested.' Here is the text from the Persian translation of The Dawn-Breakers:

شمس ابهى جلوه گر گرديد و جان عاشقان
در هواى طلعتش چون ذره رقصان آمده
​

I have searched for this poem and have not found it anywhere other than The Dawn-Breakers. It is a translation, but I have found nothing resembling it in the collection of Tahirih's poems available at bayanic.com or the collection of Babi poetry published and translated by E.G. Browne in Materials for the Study of the Babi Religion (pp. 343-358). Mazandarani, who saw the original manuscript of Nabil's Narrative, does not appear to cite it either, so what seems most likely to me is that the poem attributed to Tahirih is one of Shoghi Effendi's many interpolations to the original. But even if we assume that this was part of Nabil's original narrative, there are many possibilities here, among which are the possibility that Nabil fabricated the poem. Nabil was a poet himself and the author of numerous poems in praise of Baha'u'llah, and it would not have been out of character for him to do anything. Nabil himself, all of this aside, has relatively little credibility as a historian. He was constantly flip-flopping on his claims. Originally, he was one of the claimants to being He Whom God shall make manifest and authored poetry such as this (see Browne, Materials for the Study of the Babi Religion, p. 352):

صمدم ز عالم سرمدم احدم ز کشور لا حدم
I am Eternal from the Everlasting World; I am the One from the Realms of the Limitless.
​

Following the murder of Dayyan, another claimant to the title of He Whom God shall make manifest, Nabil became a follower of Baha'u'llah, but later, according to the Babi historians Shaykh Ahmad Ruhi and Mirza Agha Khan Kirmani in their Hasht Bihisht (Persian), Nabil began to make claims again, an action for which he was subsequently murdered by the Baha'is.
The most reliable source for Babi history is and will always be the Nuqtat al-Kaf by Hajji Mirza Jani Kashani (a companion of the Bab), which is the earliest such history, having been written in 1851-1852, long before Nabil is said to have written the history attributed to him, making him much more of a reliable eye-witness than Nabil.
But I digress. Even if we allow the Baha'is as much charity as possible and assume that Tahirih did write the poem which is attributed to her, it does not lend any credence to Baha'u'llah's claim, and 'Abha beauty' is more likely a reference to the Bab. The Baha'i fascination with the word Baha and its derivatives is completely baseless. The title Baha'u'llah is self-assumed. In the Bab's correspondence with Baha'u'llah he simply refers to him as '238,' which is the numerical value of 'Husayn Ali,' so it is ridiculous to comb through the statements from the Bab and others and interpret any usage of the word baha as a reference to Baha'u'llah. In reality, the title Baha'u'llah belonged to Tahirih, as illustrated here Baha's Grounds of Pretension - Title of Baha, Unauthorized And Self-Assumed. And likewise, the idea that baha is the Greatest Name of Allah (al-ism al-'azam allah) is similarly ridiculous. Baha (glory/splendour) is not a divine name (ism); it's an attribute (sifat). All of the divine names in the Qur'an and likewise in the writings of the Bab are nouns ('asma').


And there are numerous differences between the text as cited by Mazandarani and as cited by Shoghi Effendi, some of which are detailed here Baha's Grounds of Pretension - Title of Baha, Unauthorized And Self-Assumed

One has "revealed" many good clues in one's post about the self-assumed title of "Bahaullah" and Shoghi Effendi and their craftiness becomes evident. I find many such examples of it inter-woven in the Iqan "The Book of Certitude". Right, please?

Regards

As we are not able to read or speak the language, it is nigh on impossible for many of us to refute all these accusations.

What I do know is they are all answerable and thus I can only speak what comes from the heart.

What I find very amusing is that ever since the Bab gave His Message from God, followed by Baha'u'llah, all the Muslims have done is try to destroy any evidence of the Faith and of the People that accepted it. They then try to use the fact the evidence it is not available, as a solid point of refuting the cause.

Now we enter the future, the Muslims did not succeed and against all odds the Bab'i and Baha'i have managed to preserve many of the original documents and even record the true side of history for future generations. Yes there are some errors that need correcting and this is even acknowledged in a link I posted above.

So you can use these tactics all you want, they are tactics of people that have lost the war and are clinging still to their misguided direction.

I thank you though, because all this can do is strengthen our Faith and give others Faith to look further into the baseless claims. In fact you have given me great insight into the poision that comes with Covenant Breakers and the wisdom of cutting them off from the Faith.

The original Nabil Narritive corrected by Baha'ullah is priceless. Imagine a history written at the time of a Messenger, then corrected by the Messenger Himself being available for future generations, that is a document that belongs to all Humanity. But a Covenant Breaker stole it away the most selfish action imaginable at the passing of Baha'u'llah. A trust given to Abdul'baha. I hope one day this document is found, it would still exist one would hope.

Also there will be lots yet to come out of Iran and that day will come. I see before that day many will realize how baseless the attempt at proving Baha'u'llah wrong has been.

I wish you always well and happy and I will always ask for you a change of heart so all your woderful efforts can be spent finding the real truth behind all the stories.

If you choose not to, thats ok, it all unfolds to Allah's greater plan.

Regards Tony

 

[danieldemol]

In reality, the title Baha'u'llah belonged to Tahirih, as illustrated here Baha's Grounds of Pretension - Title of Baha, Unauthorized And Self-Assumed...
...And there are numerous differences between the text as cited by Mazandarani and as cited by Shoghi Effendi, some of which are detailed here Baha's Grounds of Pretension - Title of Baha, Unauthorized And Self-Assumed

As I see it your link leaves you in a bit of a fix, because it admits that Tahirih handed out the title Baha to Baha'u'llah, 'Qurrat-al-Ayn, who attached great importance to the convention, and turning aside, even of a mediocre person discountenanced Mirza Husayn Ali’s intended retirement and told him ‘Let the title of Baha be for you.”' But you say that Tahirih (ie Qurrat-al-Ayn) is infallible.

So here lies the fix you are in, either you must admit that Tahirih was not infallible, or that Baha is the correct title for Baha'u'llah, or that your sources are unreliable.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

edit needed

The post needs to be edited to take your reply out from the quote

Regards Tony

 

[danieldemol]

The post needs to be edited to take your reply out from the quote

Regards Tony

I hit the quote button on my phone then my fat fingers hit the reply button before I had time to finish editing lol. But I have said what I intended to say now, you may wish to re-read it.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I hit the quote button on my phone then my fat fingers hit the reply button before I had time to finish editing lol. But I have said what I intended to say now, you may wish to re-read it.

I also liked the other reply

Regards Tony

 

[Komori]

As I see it your link leaves you in a bit of a fix, because it admits that Tahirih handed out the title Baha to Baha'u'llah, 'Qurrat-al-Ayn, who attached great importance to the convention, and turning aside, even of a mediocre person discountenanced Mirza Husayn Ali’s intended retirement and told him ‘Let the title of Baha be for you.”' But you say that Tahirih (ie Qurrat-al-Ayn) is infallible.

When exactly did I say that Tahirih was infallible? My assertion was that the Bab considered her to be infallible. In any case, how about you read more carefully the passage you quoted

All my efforts to trace the source from which he came to acquire this title failed, because the grantor of titles in the Bab's religion was the Bab himself and not any other person [...] No writing by the Bab has ever been seen indicating that Mirza Husayn Ali was designated Baha'u'llah [...] During the conference at Badasht epistles were received from the Bab in Maku conferring titles on his companions, with the exception of a body of them who were of the second category, and were of no importance in the eyes of the Bab. The one and only error of the Bab was that he put Mirza Husayn Ali in the second category and bestowed no title on him. For this reason he was exceedingly furious and gave notice of his intention to walk out of the conference and to quit the place. Consequently Qurrat al-Ayn, who attached great importance to the convention, and turning aside, even of a mediocre person discountenanced Mirza Husayn Ali’s intended retirement and told him 'Let the title of Baha be for you.'

This is from Abdu'l-Husayn Ayati's book Kashf al-Hiyal, a Baha'i who left the religion and reverted to Shia Islam, leading him to write this book in refutation of the Baha'i Faith. It's not even a Babi chronicle, and it's interesting that you would quote such a source in defense of your position when the author does not even agree with you. Babi historians, such as Izziyah Khanum do maintain, yes, that Tahirih begrudgingly gave Baha'u'llah the title of Baha, but the Bab is very clear that "the name of al-Baha is for the tree (shajara) of al-Baha [...] Tell her, by my tongue, the following: 'Render thanks unto thy Lord.'" It is pretty clear that the person being addressed here is a woman, and it is even more clear when you consider that the word for tree in Arabic (shajara) is grammatically feminine and that the word Baha with a numerical value of 9 is equivalent to the letter Ta in Persian and Arabic. So, judging from the evidence, the sensible conclusion is that Baha'u'llah only held the title in respect of Tahirih, or as the link says, "on sufferance." After all, the one who receives the title can only be inferior to the one who grants it, speaking spiritually.

 

[danieldemol]

...the Bab is very clear that "the name of al-Baha is for the tree (shajara) of al-Baha [...] Tell her, by my tongue, the following: 'Render thanks unto thy Lord.'" It is pretty clear that the person being addressed here is a woman, and it is even more clear when you consider that the word for tree in Arabic (shajara) is grammatically feminine and that the word Baha with a numerical value of 9 is equivalent to the letter Ta in Persian and Arabic. So, judging from the evidence, the sensible conclusion is that Baha'u'llah only held the title in respect of Tahirih, or as the link says, "on sufferance." After all, the one who receives the title can only be inferior to the one who grants it, speaking spiritually.

The issue is, you are not seeing it as a divine revelation (unlike the Bab who did). Of course Baha'u'llah (reciever of the title) is inferior to God (giver of the title). addressing Baha as "her" is using the spiritual symbolism of woman as the recipient, and man as the giver, where in this case God assumes the role of the male (giver), and Baha'u'llah the role of female (recipient). The Bab made it abundantly clear in His tablets that Baha was a male, for example, "When the Day-Star of Baha will shine resplendent above the horizon of eternity it is incumbent upon you to present yourselves before His Throne. Beware lest ye be seated in His presence or ask questions without His leave." 1 The tablet goes on and on with several references to "His", "Him" and "He" but I think you get the picture.

(1 The Bab, Selections from the Writings of the Bab, p. 164)

 

[danieldemol]

For those who prefer the truth to lies written on paper concerning Nabíl-i-Azam, after his return from Iran, he lived in `Akká until Bahá'u'lláh's passing in 1892. Overwhelmed with Bahá'u'lláh's death, he drowned himself in the sea and his dead body was found washed ashore near the city of `Akká.

 

[Komori]

The issue is, you are not seeing it as a divine revelation (unlike the Bab who did). Of course Baha'u'llah (reciever of the title) is inferior to God (giver of the title). addressing Baha as "her" is using the spiritual symbolism of woman as the recipient, and man as the giver, where in this case God assumes the role of the male (giver), and Baha'u'llah the role of female (recipient). The Bab made it abundantly clear in His tablets that Baha was a male, for example, "When the Day-Star of Baha will shine resplendent above the horizon of eternity it is incumbent upon you to present yourselves before His Throne. Beware lest ye be seated in His presence or ask questions without His leave." 1 The tablet goes on and on with several references to "His", "Him" and "He" but I think you get the picture.

(1 The Bab, Selections from the Writings of the Bab, p. 164)

Why is the language literal when he is using masculine pronouns but suddenly becomes symbolic when he uses feminine pronouns? It seems that you are intentionally trying to downplay the role of the Divine Feminine and Tahirih in the writings of the Bāb. Such ad hoc faux-esoteric rationalizations are only convincing if you already believe in Bahā'u'llāh, and I do not afford any credibility to Selections from the Writings of the Báb. Taherzadeh, the translator, is himself an untrustworthy figure, and the book does not detail exactly which manuscripts were used for the translation, nor was the translation published alongside a critical edition of the original text, not to mention the literary embellishment that sacrifices any possibility of textual fidelity.
The Bāb uses both feminine and masculine language when referring to the Primal Will, and the reason for this is very clear if you understand the place of Fāṭimah in esoteric Islam. In his Tafsīr sūrat al-baqarah, the Bāb talks about how all of the imāms are 'enfolded' within the womb of Fāṭimah and equates her with the tree in the Garden of Eden (see p. 166 of the journal article on this I linked to earlier).

 

[TransmutingSoul]

For those who prefer the truth to lies written on paper concerning Nabíl-i-Azam, after his return from Iran, he lived in `Akká until Bahá'u'lláh's passing in 1892. Overwhelmed with Bahá'u'lláh's death, he drowned himself in the sea and his dead body was found washed ashore near the city of `Akká.

A great story of Love.

Nabíl-i-A`zam - Wikipedia

Regards Tony

 

[Komori]

Overwhelmed with Bahá'u'lláh's death, he drowned himself in the sea and his dead body was found washed ashore near the city of `Akká.

This is a complete myth fabricated by Baha'u'llah's son Mirza Badi'u'llah. Babi sources, as well as Abdu'l-Husayn Ayati's book Kashf al-Hiyal, maintain that the Baha'is, as a result of Nabil having started to make divine claims again after Baha'u'llah's death, strangled him and cast his body into the sea. Thereafter, they came up with this ridiculous story of Nabil having drowned himself out of love for Baha'u'llah. Who is who: Nabil

 

[TransmutingSoul]

This is a complete myth fabricated by Baha'u'llah's son Mirza Badi'u'llah. Babi sources, as well as Abdu'l-Husayn Ayati's book Kashf al-Hiyal, maintain that the Baha'is, as a result of Nabil having started to make divine claims again after Baha'u'llah's death, strangled him and cast his body into the sea. Thereafter, they came up with this ridiculous story of Nabil having drowned himself out of love for Baha'u'llah. Who is who: Nabil

Here we go again. A covernant breaker, one that helped steal the keys to the Shrine of Baha'u'llah, a weak selfish soul.

Thus are we to take the word of an enemy of the faith and a thief over those that want only love peace and justice for all?

"Gracious God! After Mirza Badi'u'llah had declared in his own handwriting that this man (Muhammad `Ali) had broken the Covenant and had proclaimed his falsification of the Holy Text, he realized that to return to the True Faith and pay allegiance to the Covenant and Testament would in no wise promote his selfish desires. He thus repented and regretted the thing he had done and attempted privily to gather in his printed confessions, plotted darkly with the Center of Sedition against me and informed him daily of all the happenings within my household. He has even taken a leading part in the mischievous deeds that have of late been committed. Praise be to God affairs recovered their former stability and the loved ones obtained peace. but ever since the day he entered again into our midst, he began afresh to sow the seeds of sore sedition. Some of his machinations and intrigues will be recorded in a separate leaflet." (Abdul'baha)

This link tells of His deceptions;

Redirect Notice Badiullah

@Vinayaka - I am saddened that you rate this trash by Komori as a winner, as that means you are an innocent onlooker who has chosen a side.

Regards Tony

 

[danieldemol]

This is a complete myth fabricated by Baha'u'llah's son Mirza Badi'u'llah. Babi sources, as well as Abdu'l-Husayn Ayati's book Kashf al-Hiyal, maintain that the Baha'is, as a result of Nabil having started to make divine claims again after Baha'u'llah's death, strangled him and cast his body into the sea. Thereafter, they came up with this ridiculous story of Nabil having drowned himself out of love for Baha'u'llah. Who is who: Nabil

The Ottoman authorities were only too happy to charge Baha’is that broke the law, thus it is very telling that there is no charge of murder by the Ottomans against any Baha’i for the murder of Nabil-I-Azam, all you can produce in favour of your version of events is lies written after the event.

 

[Vinayaka]

@Vinayaka - I am saddened that you rate this trash by Komori as a winner, as that means you are an innocent onlooker who has chosen a side.

There are always two sides to every story. I'm just happy to be able to read both sides, hence the rating. I remain neutral. I'm saddened, however, by your insistence that my neutrality is actually hostile. Oh well. Can't win them all.

Such is the case in large part. Any disagreement, however slight, is seen as hostility.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There are always two sides to every story. I'm just happy to be able to read both sides, hence the rating. I remain neutral. I'm saddened, however, by your insistence that my neutrality is actually hostile. Oh well. Can't win them all.

Such is the case in large part. Any disagreement, however slight, is seen as hostility.

Neutral would mean rating all replies for the same reason. Without me going back, how many Baha'i posts are rated as a winner, or liked, or even anything?

Did you read the link provided that shows the plots and deception of a Covernant Breaker?

Now if Nabil was murdered, given that the enemy of Abdul'baha were trying at all costs to rid the world of him. The first thing that would have happened is an investigation into that murder and it would have been what the Covernant Breakers had longed for.

It is time to call out when you say you are neutral and you are obviously not taking that position. I do not see you as hostile and never have, I do not see you in any way as neutral.

Regards Tony