Bahaullah: Gawhar Khanum

[TransmutingSoul]

@Unguru

The use of Funny on.post # 77 as you have is against forum rules. I will leave this post here unless you remove such an insult.

Personally it matters not to me, but justice says I call you on this one.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

Neutral would mean rating all replies for the same reason. Without me going back, how many Baha'i posts are rated as a winner, or liked, or even anything?

Did you read the link provided that shows the plots and deception of a Covernant Breaker?

Now if Nabil was murdered, given that the enemy of Abdul'baha were trying at all costs to rid the world of him. The first thing that would have happened is an investigation into that murder and it would have been what the Covernant Breakers had longed for.

It is time to call out when you say you are neutral and you are obviously not taking that position. I do not see you as hostile and never have, I do not see you in any way as neutral.

Regards Tony

Entirely up to you, Tony. Feel free to question my neutrality all you want to. I personally don't care much at all for history. But I do know, that as with war history. there are ALWAYS two sides to every story, and each side generally insists that their version is correct. It's the same as 2 kids coming in from a recess fight, each giving their version.

There were links given from both sides. I read them all. Never have I said which ones I agreed with.

 

[Vinayaka]

@Unguru

The use of Funny on.post # 77 as you have is against forum rules. I will leave this post here unless you remove such an insult.

Personally it matters not to me, but justice says I call you on this one.

Regards Tony

So too with the use of 'Optimistic' and 'Creative' when folks don't actually mean it.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So too with the use of 'Optimistic' and 'Creative' when folks don't actually mean it.

You would have to ask them in each case, otherwise one woud not know. I am sure they would offer a reason.

Persoanlly I use them only when I see a reason to. Thus if I rate a post as such, you can ask.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

You would have to ask them in each case, otherwise one woud not know. I am sure they would offer a reason.

Persoanlly I use them only when I see a reason to. Thus if I rate a post as such, you can ask.

Then you will have no problem stopping giving me those sarcastic ratings. Thanks in advance.

 

[Komori]

The Ottoman authorities were only too happy to charge Baha’is that broke the law, thus it is very telling that there is no charge of murder by the Ottomans against any Baha’i for the murder of Nabil-I-Azam, all you can produce in favour of your version of events is lies written after the event.

"If they did it, they would've gotten caught" is a pretty poor argument. That being said, the Ottomans were well aware of the antics the Baha'is were getting up to and the various murders they had committed against their ideological enemies (mainly the Azalis), hence why they exiled the Baha'is to Acre.

 

[paarsurrey]

This is just a grave misunderstanding of the Revelations of both the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

It is correct that a lot of us can not read Arabic and Persian and thus can not say much about untranslated writings. The great thing here is Baha'u'llah gave a covernant to which the successor, who was first Abdul'baha and then Shoghi Effendi, were able to make clear as to what was revealed in the Writings.

They did a great job and obviously foresaw the turmoil in the future. They both explained the most important aspects of these twin Revelations and made sure translations were available of writings that would cover all these difficult areas of meaning.

The stations given to the Letters if the Living were symbolic, this is a reference to Quddus;

"Regarding the station of Quddus, he should by no means be considered having had the station of a Prophet. His station was no doubt a very exalted one, and far above that of any of the Letters of the Living, including the first Letter, Mulla Husayn. Quddus reflected more than any of the disciples of the Bab the light of His teaching." (11 November 1936, written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer).

We also have the Universal House of Justice, also under the Covernant of Baha'u'llah who have also clarified this matter;

"It may be helpful to consider that in the Dispensation of the Bab, Quddus is referred to as the "Last Point", and the "Last Name of God", is identified, as pointed out in God Passes By, with one of the "Messengers charged with imposture" mentioned in the Qur'an, and is one of the "two witnesses" into whom "the spirit of life from God" must enter, as attested by 'Abdu'l-Baha in Some Answered Questions, yet, despite these sublime stations, he is not regarded as an independent Manifestation of God." (24 August 1975, written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice to an individual believer)

There is a truckload of advice available on this topic.

Regards Tony

"God Passes By"

What is this God that has passed by?
Does it means death of Bahaullah?

Anybody, please

Regards

 

[TransmutingSoul]

"God Passes By"

What is this God that has passed by?
Does it means death of Bahaullah?

Anybody, please

Regards

God sends His Messengers in each age God choose to do so.

Regards Tony

 

[paarsurrey]

God sends His Messengers in each age God choose to do so.

Regards Tony

"God sends His Messengers in each age God choose to do so."

How does that one get from the words "God passes by"? I am asking because English is not my mother-tongue.

Regards

 

[TransmutingSoul]

"God sends His Messengers in each age God choose to do so."

How does that one get from the words "God passes by"? I am asking because English is not my mother-tongue.

Regards

Abraham came and went, Moses came and went, Jesus, Muhammad, Bab and Baha'u'llah came gave a Message of God and went. Another way to say this is they passed us by.

In another way we can say, in this world, they passed by the majority of humanity that did not see them or listen to Gods Message given by them.



Regards Tony

 

[paarsurrey]

Abraham came and went, Moses came and went, Jesus, Muhammad, Bab and Baha'u'llah came gave a Message of God and went. Another way to say this is they passed us by.

In another way we can say, in this world, they passed by the majority of humanity that did not see them or listen to Gods Message given by them.

Regards Tony

We change the phrase "God passes by" with "Tom* passes by" or "Tom passed away", what will this/these new phrases mean, please?

Regards
___________
*Tom, Dick and Harry

 

[TransmutingSoul]

We change the phrase "God passes by" with "Tom* passes by" or "Tom passed away", what will this/these new phrases mean, please?

Regards
___________
*Tom, Dick and Harry

You do and choose as you wish to paarsurry, 'there is no compulsion in religion'.

We could just say 'Allah passes by', as Allah gave Two Messages in the 1800's, that passed by and is still passing by many Muslim, let alone the world as a whole.

God passes by is a recorded history of that neglect. Thus a very aptly named History applicable to all God's Mesengers, I would say.

These are really petty issues paarsurry, Is that because what you read from the Bab and Baha'u'llah has all the signs of being like unto the Quran, Allah's Word and one can not refute Allah?

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

The rights of all people to follow whatever Faith they choose should be respected.

Baha'is have stated that all the other major religions don't have the truth from God that is needed today. They have also said that many, if not all, the major religions have added in traditions of men and have misinterpretations about the truth of God. Yet, Baha'is respect those beliefs that people hold? Even though, they are wrong?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Baha'is have stated that all the other major religions don't have the truth from God that is needed today. They have also said that many, if not all, the major religions have added in traditions of men and have misinterpretations about the truth of God. Yet, Baha'is respect those beliefs that people hold? Even though, they are wrong?

Muhammad said it in the Quran.

'There is no compulsion in Religion.' As such one respects the right for people to choose their own path, it is a God given right.

What can be mutually shared is virtues that enable us to exist together harmoniously.

Regards Tony

 

[paarsurrey]

Baha'is have stated that all the other major religions don't have the truth from God that is needed today. They have also said that many, if not all, the major religions have added in traditions of men and have misinterpretations about the truth of God. Yet, Baha'is respect those beliefs that people hold? Even though, they are wrong?

"misinterpretations about the truth of God"

The points mentioned in your post has prompted me to
ask my Bahai friends here, do they believe that there have been any additions/subtractions in Quran?

My understanding as far as the misinterpretations are concerned, Bahaullah himself misunderstood/misinterpreted/misrepresented many Quranic verses he quoted in Iqan. Bahaullah was not much different than the contemporary divines/clergy against whom he had many complaints.

Right, please?

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Iranian Muslims may be highly regarded amongst themselves but are viewed quite differently in the West and by the United Nations. I have little doubt about the persecution of the Baha'is in Iran. Many of the Persian Baha'is I've met seem thoroughly decent people. Then again, I've met many wonderful Muslims too.

A person's right to be a Baha'i, Muslim, Christian, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist or atheist for that matter is fundamental where I live. Many of the Muslims that live in my city are refugees from Muslim countries where there has been civil war and unrest and they are pleased to have the opportunity to live in the West.

I'm not interested in those that promote hatred of people of any faith. The rights of all people to follow whatever Faith they choose should be respected.

"The rights of all people to follow whatever Faith they choose should be respected."

Yes, I agree with what I have colored in magenta, please.

Regards

 

[TransmutingSoul]

"misinterpretations about the truth of God"

The points mentioned in your post has prompted me to
ask my Bahai friends here, do they believe that there have been any additions/subtractions in Quran?

My understanding as far as the misinterpretations are concerned, Bahaullah himself misunderstood/misinterpreted many Quranic verses he quoted in Iqan. Bahaullah was not much different than the contemporary divines/clergy against whom he had many complaints.

Right, please?

Regards

The station of the Quran in the Baha'i Writings is well documented.

As to the rest of the post, that is the same accusation that a Jew or Christain would use about MUhammad and the Quran and Biblical references.

What you need to consider paarsurry is that the Kitab-i-iqan warns us of this. That all the proofs we bring up to reject a Messenger of God, is but a return of the rejections used by all people in the past to refute all Messengers.

Some of the most learned Muslim Divine in the time of Baha'u'llah could not refute His knowledge. Every time they tried, Baha'u'llah would guide them to more scriptures to show thay had not fully considered what they offered as a rejection. They could never find fault in that knowledge. This is why they resorted to persecution and banishment.

That we have trouble finding these references is only indicative of the effort that those who persecuted Baha'u'llah have used to eliminate any trace of the good that has come from Baha'u'llah. The time is not far away, when all those hopes they had of extinguishing the cause, will backfire and the resulting explosion of knowledge that results will vindicate all that Baha'u'llah has offered.

The effort would be better spent looking for those references now, rather than saying they were wrong or did not exist.

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

Baha'is have stated that all the other major religions don't have the truth from God that is needed today. They have also said that many, if not all, the major religions have added in traditions of men and have misinterpretations about the truth of God. Yet, Baha'is respect those beliefs that people hold? Even though, they are wrong?

All the religions have truth that is relevant for today. All religions have teachings that we can all learn from.

Clearly if Baha'u'llah is the Manifestation of God for this day, then an essential part of what is needed resides within Baha'u'llah's Teachings. That does not negate the necessity of the other great faiths. We all need each other and have something to learn from one another. Its more about learning to walk together, than the Baha'is claiming the crown of being the next greatest and latest religion with exclusive claims to truth.

 

[paarsurrey]

The station of the Quran in the Baha'i Writings is well documented.

As to the rest of the post, that is the same accusation that a Jew or Christain would use about MUhammad and the Quran and Biblical references.

What you need to consider paarsurry is that the Kitab-i-iqan warns us of this. That all the proofs we bring up to reject a Messenger of God, is but a return of the rejections used by all people in the past to refute all Messengers.

Some of the most learned Muslim Divine in the time of Baha'u'llah could not refute His knowledge. Every time they tried, Baha'u'llah would guide them to more scriptures to show thay had not fully considered what they offered as a rejection. They could never find fault in that knowledge. This is why they resorted to persecution and banishment.

That we have trouble finding these references is only indicative of the effort that those who persecuted Baha'u'llah have used to eliminate any trace of the good that has come from Baha'u'llah. The time is not far away, when all those hopes they had of extinguishing the cause, will backfire and the resulting explosion of knowledge that results will vindicate all that Baha'u'llah has offered.

The effort would be better spent looking for those references now, rather than saying they were wrong or did not exist.

Regards Tony

"The effort would be better spent looking for those references now, rather than saying they were wrong or did not exist."

That effort must have been made by the followers of Bahaullah, now it should be more easy. The books have been published and most if not all, I understand, are available even online. The references of all such Shia/Islam Ahadith/Narrations should be provided in the Arabic text. Now more than a century has passed, yet it has not been done. How much time Bahaullah's followers want to take while they say Iqan is their core religious book?

I also understand that in the first hand-written or dictated Iqan had many mistakes even in the Quranic verses quoted and Bahaullah had to correct these later.

Regards

 

[TransmutingSoul]

"The effort would be better spent looking for those references now, rather than saying they were wrong or did not exist."

That effort must have been made by the followers of Bahaullah, now it should be more easy. The books have been published and most if not all, I understand, are available even online. The references of all such Shia/Islam Ahadith/Narrations should be provided in the Arabic text. Now more than a century has passed, yet it has not been done. How much time Bahaullah's followers want to take while they say Iqan is their core religious book?

I also understand that in the first hand-written or dictated Iqan had many mistakes even in the Quranic verses quoted and Bahaullah had to correct these later.

Regards

Paarsurry, to me every one of the Bab's and Baha'u'llah's writings is as the Quran, they are all from Allah.

Last night I was reading another great work compiled as the 'Summons of the Lord of Hosts'. A collection of Tablets, This was Baha'u'llahs declaration to the world and its rulers from the prison city of Akka. This was done as the 'Living Temple' of Gods Cause in this age.

In this it explains the measure of all things, of all knowledge are the writings given by the Messengers.

This summons opens with the Súriy-i-Haykal (Tablet of the Temple)

The Summons of the Lord of Hosts | Bahá’í Reference Library

This is from the section in the 'third letter of the temple';

"...Say: The measure of all created things hath been appointed in this concealed and manifest Temple, wherein lie enshrined the knowledge of the heavens and the earth, and of all things past and future. The finger of God’s handiwork hath inscribed upon this Tablet that which the wisest and most learned of men are powerless to fathom, and hath created therein temples inscrutable to all save His own Self, could ye but apprehend this truth. Blessed be the one who readeth it, who pondereth its contents, and who is numbered with them that comprehend!

44Say: Naught is seen in My temple but the Temple of God, and in My beauty but His Beauty, and in My being but His Being, and in My self but His Self, and in My movement but His Movement, and in My acquiescence but His Acquiescence, and in My pen but His Pen, the Mighty, the All-Praised. There hath not been in My soul but the Truth, and in Myself naught could be seen but God.

45Beware lest ye speak of duality in regard to My Self, for all the atoms of the earth proclaim that there is none other God but Him, the One, the Single, the Mighty, the Loving. From the beginning that hath no beginning I have proclaimed, from the realm of eternity, that I am God, none other God is there save Me, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting; and unto the end that hath no end I shall proclaim, amidst the kingdom of names, that I am God, none other God is there beside Me, the All-Glorious, the Best-Beloved. Say: Lordship is My Name, whereof I have created manifestations in the world of being, while We Ourself remain sanctified above them, would ye but ponder this truth. And Godhead is My Name, whereof We have created exponents whose power shall encompass the people of the earth and make them true worshippers of God, could ye but recognize it. Thus should ye regard all Our Names, if ye be endued with insight..."

All I can say those words, beautiful and most powerful, can only be from Allah.

Peace be with you always paarsurry. Regards Tony