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Ban the Bible and the Qur'an?

Carmel

New Member
I don't see why we're explicitly equating 'antiquated' = 'bad'. The Bible and the Quran, for all their faults, also contain timeless positive moral guidelines as well as both being of immense literary value. I'm all for religious progression -- one of the central tenets of my faith -- but this is overkill.
 

Kirran

Premium Member
I don't see why we're explicitly equating 'antiquated' = 'bad'. The Bible and the Quran, for all their faults, also contain timeless positive moral guidelines as well as both being of immense literary value. I'm all for religious progression -- one of the central tenets of my faith -- but this is overkill.

Welcome to RF!
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
How about we teach people to be knowledgeable, critical thinkers and allow them to objectively analyze the objectionable rather than using censorship as a means to control by imposed ignorance? Because then if the material is garbage, people will come to that conclusion on their own. Beliefs and ideas should be debated openly rather than silenced. Having a system that controls what we can and cannot see or hear, say or do, or even think is tyrannical and Orwellian as ****. A free world requires free minds.
 
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loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Bear with me for a moment. This isn't as crazy or evil as it may at first sound. ;)

The Bible and the Qur'an represent the holy books of the world two largest religions, as well as various denominations and their predecessor Judaism from the old testament.

Whilst the concept of banning these two books flies in the face of our conceptions of personal liberty, there is a social evolutionary factor in this. The bible and the quran are both texts far removed from our own time and literal readings of them as truth are a hindrance on scientific advances as well a source of moral philosophies that struggle with questions in our technological age.

It would be hoped that in the era of atomic bombs, space exploration and industrialisation we would have developed religions or belief systems that correspond to the needs of the times. Whilst it is true that some varients of Islam and Christianity have re-invented themselves, it is only to remove the essence of the religious orthodoxy as mans submission to natural forces personified as a deity. It is more than possible to argue that such interpretations have defeated the religion itself as there are limits to how far you can interpret christianity or islam until you cease to be either a christian or a muslim. So whats the purpose of these religions if they are both scientifically and morally out-dated?

The flip side of this, is that as man comes to have greater mastery of the forces of nature and more power from our science and technology, being guided by a "bronze age" morality may infact be dangerous. Literal readings of these texts as a moral guide would produce hideously immoral societies by the standards we have today. the alternative is an extreme selectivity of these religions traditions and scripture which means that we are all but paying lip service to them. So why do we maintain the pretense of Christianity or Islam when we have made ourselves as individuals the supreme authority in deciding what parts of the religion we follow? This individualism is contaty to religious authority if it were cliamed to be derived from god or the church so it is not as if such a wide scope of interpretation is the pursuit of deeper "truth" when we have decided to ignore most of the religion.

So instead Christianity and Islam continue this strange pseudo-existence- on the one hand becoming empty liberal secular versions of themselves which do not necessarily offer spiritual truth or fulfilment in a way they were originally intended, or they are treated as truth and we condemn the results as contary to our humanity because they are such a miss match with advanced technological capabilities that could solve many problems. How long can this go on?

Should we draw a line under these religions by banning the bible and the quran and instead work to find belief systems for the majority of mankind that serve as better vechicles of the scientific and moral knowledge accumulated since the 1st and 6th century when they were established? Or should we allow these religions to continue and on what grounds?

God sends Messengers and a Teachings relevant to each age. So you are correct that eventually the laws of religions 1400 and 2000 years ago do not serve the needs of this age.

But people cling to the old and outworn shibboleths which are the cause of today's problems.

God has sent a Teacher for this age to unite humanity and brought Teachings which can help us progress and advance.
 

Kirran

Premium Member
God sends Messengers and a Teachings relevant to each age. So you are correct that eventually the laws of religions 1400 and 2000 years ago do not serve the needs of this age.

But people cling to the old and outworn shibboleths which are the cause of today's problems.

God has sent a Teacher for this age to unite humanity and brought Teachings which can help us progress and advance.

Sathya Sai Baba?
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
QURAN is the eternal miracle of prophet muhammad pbuh so why do u say it's out dated?

Every moment this book challenges human being to bring like me a surah containing just 3 verses
And after 1400 years and this so called technology that u are proud of , Noone could bring that!!!!!
I was going to tell @Laika that I wasn't especially keen on banning anything... but, your post gives me some pause... Jus' sayin'...
 
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Kirran

Premium Member
I'm guessing, as a fellow Bahá'í, he was referring to Bahá'u'lláh.

I suspect you're right. I was being a little tongue-in-cheek if I'm honest. People sometimes do this thing where they speak about 'the Messenger' or whatever without coming out and saying it haha
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
Bear with me for a moment. This isn't as crazy or evil as it may at first sound. ;)

The Bible and the Qur'an represent the holy books of the world two largest religions, as well as various denominations and their predecessor Judaism from the old testament.

Whilst the concept of banning these two books flies in the face of our conceptions of personal liberty, there is a social evolutionary factor in this. The bible and the quran are both texts far removed from our own time and literal readings of them as truth are a hindrance on scientific advances as well a source of moral philosophies that struggle with questions in our technological age.

It would be hoped that in the era of atomic bombs, space exploration and industrialisation we would have developed religions or belief systems that correspond to the needs of the times. Whilst it is true that some varients of Islam and Christianity have re-invented themselves, it is only to remove the essence of the religious orthodoxy as mans submission to natural forces personified as a deity. It is more than possible to argue that such interpretations have defeated the religion itself as there are limits to how far you can interpret christianity or islam until you cease to be either a christian or a muslim. So whats the purpose of these religions if they are both scientifically and morally out-dated?

The flip side of this, is that as man comes to have greater mastery of the forces of nature and more power from our science and technology, being guided by a "bronze age" morality may infact be dangerous. Literal readings of these texts as a moral guide would produce hideously immoral societies by the standards we have today. the alternative is an extreme selectivity of these religions traditions and scripture which means that we are all but paying lip service to them. So why do we maintain the pretense of Christianity or Islam when we have made ourselves as individuals the supreme authority in deciding what parts of the religion we follow? This individualism is contaty to religious authority if it were cliamed to be derived from god or the church so it is not as if such a wide scope of interpretation is the pursuit of deeper "truth" when we have decided to ignore most of the religion.

So instead Christianity and Islam continue this strange pseudo-existence- on the one hand becoming empty liberal secular versions of themselves which do not necessarily offer spiritual truth or fulfilment in a way they were originally intended, or they are treated as truth and we condemn the results as contary to our humanity because they are such a miss match with advanced technological capabilities that could solve many problems. How long can this go on?

Should we draw a line under these religions by banning the bible and the quran and instead work to find belief systems for the majority of mankind that serve as better vechicles of the scientific and moral knowledge accumulated since the 1st and 6th century when they were established? Or should we allow these religions to continue and on what grounds?
I request removing the ban on other gnostic books regarding Jesus and put them in the Bible.
 

Kirran

Premium Member
Baha'u'llah - the Bahá'í Faith. Unity of mankind and peace and unity between religions are some teachings as well as equality between men and women. A universal language, universal disarmament. World peace. Elimination of all kinds of prejudice, abolishment of holy war and much more all relative to this age

"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" - Baha'u'llah

Isn't this proselytising? Careful r.e. rules man!

The unity of humanity, peace, unity between religions, repudiation of violence etc are also teachings of Sathya Sai Baba, who's quite a soul.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Isn't this proselytising? Careful r.e. rules man!

The unity of humanity, peace, unity between religions, repudiation of violence etc are also teachings of Sathya Sai Baba, who's quite a soul.

Is this a DIR? Anyway if you think so I deleted it
 

meghanwaterlillies

Well-Known Member
Its not a religion hamlet eh..
Mid summer nights dream eh..
Anyways there are some fantastic writings that aren't religion so to speak.
**However I have seen the equation and I can say the same about parts written in the bible that flux around a point, a very important one.
What are we comparing again?
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
I don't agree on the ban on several counts

First the Bible is not opposed to the scientific method, however sometimes people will deal off the bottom of the deck claiming scientific methodologies PLUS a philosophical atheism as if that is pristine science.... not so.... Sir Francis Bacon was one of the early developers of the scientific method's and was a Christian and it was the Reformation that led to the scientific revolution... so.. no... the Bible is not contrary to science

Second, it was a Christian world view that led to orphanages, hospitals, schools and many forms of humanitarian activities so I cannot agree that the Bible is an opponent of goodness. An example being Mother Theresa's of the world who woke up around 4am to mediate on Jesus and then went out in the world to serve Him.

Third, as far as greater peace in the world... 'blessed are the peacemakers' ... for they shall be called the children of God
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Banning things do not work. Never has, never will.
But, on the other hand, there is nothing wrong with public movements to question those books, point out the horrors and nightmares contained within, work on making others think about those books critically, enforced almost to the point of public shaming for believing such things blindly without evidence.
 

Deidre

Well-Known Member
That would be the same as banning freedom of religion. People have a right to believe as they wish, and read their holy texts, so long as those holy texts aren't being forced on others. I'd rather live in a society that doesn't ban such freedoms, because slippery slopes and all.
 
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