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Ban the Bible and the Qur'an?

Kirran

Premium Member
My guess is that Muslims who fall for this line of reasoning don't get out much and mingle with thinkers from other schools of thought. They are so inbred in their thinking that they just assume because they can do no better, due to their inherent bias, that it is not possible for anyone else to do better.

Exit question: How do you verify a subjective perspective objectively? o_O

True - one would hope that after enough time on RF for example they'd start to integrate some critical thinking, but that is generally not the intention.

Exit answer: by dint of variation, primarily.
 

interminable

منتظر
Besides which, I've had other Muslims, over the years, claim that one does not have to write the challenge up in Arabic.

One point that I feel nullifies this so-called "challenge" is who, exactly, decides if a work meets or exceeds the challenge? Necessarily, Muslims would have to decide as they simply would not recognize any others ruling or judgment on this matter. The point is that given the highly vaunted status of the Qur'an, it is unlikely that any "scholar" would look on a challenger in an unbiased way. In effect, any effort would fail before it even began because those who would have to decide would never agree that a challenger was of greater merit. That alone makes this so-called "challenge" a fraud. One would think a god would understand that small point.
There are so many Arab unbelievers and even Muslims that if reach such things will leave Islam immediately . Just because there are some restrictions in our religion and technology and modern life have made people more lecherous with unbridled passions so
DON'T WORRY

Just MAKE SOME VERSES instead of talk
Even I have tried to write but I just couldn't
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
There are so many Arab unbelievers and even Muslims that if reach such things will leave Islam immediately . Just because there are some restrictions in our religion and technology and modern life have made people more lecherous with unbridled passions so
DON'T WORRY

Just MAKE SOME VERSES instead of talk
Even I have tried to write but I just couldn't
You really don't understand what we are trying to tell you, do you?
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Bear with me for a moment. This isn't as crazy or evil as it may at first sound. ;)

The Bible and the Qur'an represent the holy books of the world two largest religions, as well as various denominations and their predecessor Judaism from the old testament.

Whilst the concept of banning these two books flies in the face of our conceptions of personal liberty, there is a social evolutionary factor in this. The bible and the quran are both texts far removed from our own time and literal readings of them as truth are a hindrance on scientific advances as well a source of moral philosophies that struggle with questions in our technological age.

It would be hoped that in the era of atomic bombs, space exploration and industrialisation we would have developed religions or belief systems that correspond to the needs of the times. Whilst it is true that some varients of Islam and Christianity have re-invented themselves, it is only to remove the essence of the religious orthodoxy as mans submission to natural forces personified as a deity. It is more than possible to argue that such interpretations have defeated the religion itself as there are limits to how far you can interpret christianity or islam until you cease to be either a christian or a muslim. So whats the purpose of these religions if they are both scientifically and morally out-dated?

The flip side of this, is that as man comes to have greater mastery of the forces of nature and more power from our science and technology, being guided by a "bronze age" morality may infact be dangerous. Literal readings of these texts as a moral guide would produce hideously immoral societies by the standards we have today. the alternative is an extreme selectivity of these religions traditions and scripture which means that we are all but paying lip service to them. So why do we maintain the pretense of Christianity or Islam when we have made ourselves as individuals the supreme authority in deciding what parts of the religion we follow? This individualism is contaty to religious authority if it were cliamed to be derived from god or the church so it is not as if such a wide scope of interpretation is the pursuit of deeper "truth" when we have decided to ignore most of the religion.

So instead Christianity and Islam continue this strange pseudo-existence- on the one hand becoming empty liberal secular versions of themselves which do not necessarily offer spiritual truth or fulfilment in a way they were originally intended, or they are treated as truth and we condemn the results as contary to our humanity because they are such a miss match with advanced technological capabilities that could solve many problems. How long can this go on?

Should we draw a line under these religions by banning the bible and the quran and instead work to find belief systems for the majority of mankind that serve as better vechicles of the scientific and moral knowledge accumulated since the 1st and 6th century when they were established? Or should we allow these religions to continue and on what grounds?

metapsychology isn't a pseudoscience.

even western observations are filtered through the mind of the observer and have their cult language. scientism has it's limits too.
 
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interminable

منتظر
You really need to get out more. The self-hypnosis does seem to be working well though.
I don't like this way of talking to others

Anyway

Do u think I have no any problems in mind about my religion????

I have some stuff that u even can't think about it simply because I know Islam very well
So don't say we are bigot or attached to the Qur'an

This problem will never be ended for us until becoming a gnostic
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Hi @interminable ,

Imagine that there was a forum on the internet that was focused on Iran. Its culture, its politics, current news, everything about Iran was being discussed by Iranians. Okay, now imagine I show up one day and I say this:

I don't think Iran is very good. How do I know? I watched a movie called "Argo". It was a really great movie, it won awards and everything. It's probably the best movie ever made. No one could ever make a movie as great as Argo. You could try, but you wouldn't succeed. It's a perfect movie. In fact, I'd say it's infallible.

And based on this movie, it's clear that Iran is a bad place.

Now interminable, how do you think the Iranians in their forum would respond to such a post?
 

Midget01

Member
Bear with me for a moment. This isn't as crazy or evil as it may at first sound. ;)

The Bible and the Qur'an represent the holy books of the world two largest religions, as well as various denominations and their predecessor Judaism from the old testament.

Whilst the concept of banning these two books flies in the face of our conceptions of personal liberty, there is a social evolutionary factor in this. The bible and the quran are both texts far removed from our own time and literal readings of them as truth are a hindrance on scientific advances as well a source of moral philosophies that struggle with questions in our technological age.

It would be hoped that in the era of atomic bombs, space exploration and industrialisation we would have developed religions or belief systems that correspond to the needs of the times. Whilst it is true that some varients of Islam and Christianity have re-invented themselves, it is only to remove the essence of the religious orthodoxy as mans submission to natural forces personified as a deity. It is more than possible to argue that such interpretations have defeated the religion itself as there are limits to how far you can interpret christianity or islam until you cease to be either a christian or a muslim. So whats the purpose of these religions if they are both scientifically and morally out-dated?

The flip side of this, is that as man comes to have greater mastery of the forces of nature and more power from our science and technology, being guided by a "bronze age" morality may infact be dangerous. Literal readings of these texts as a moral guide would produce hideously immoral societies by the standards we have today. the alternative is an extreme selectivity of these religions traditions and scripture which means that we are all but paying lip service to them. So why do we maintain the pretense of Christianity or Islam when we have made ourselves as individuals the supreme authority in deciding what parts of the religion we follow? This individualism is contaty to religious authority if it were cliamed to be derived from god or the church so it is not as if such a wide scope of interpretation is the pursuit of deeper "truth" when we have decided to ignore most of the religion.

So instead Christianity and Islam continue this strange pseudo-existence- on the one hand becoming empty liberal secular versions of themselves which do not necessarily offer spiritual truth or fulfilment in a way they were originally intended, or they are treated as truth and we condemn the results as contary to our humanity because they are such a miss match with advanced technological capabilities that could solve many problems. How long can this go on?

Should we draw a line under these religions by banning the bible and the quran and instead work to find belief systems for the majority of mankind that serve as better vechicles of the scientific and moral knowledge accumulated since the 1st and 6th century when they were established? Or should we allow these religions to continue and on what grounds?
 

interminable

منتظر
Hi @interminable ,

Imagine that there was a forum on the internet that was focused on Iran. Its culture, its politics, current news, everything about Iran was being discussed by Iranians. Okay, now imagine I show up one day and I say this:



Now interminable, how do you think the Iranians in their forum would respond to such a post?
Hi
They will say there is such a movie that we can show or we will make
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Yours was understood

Don't u say at last Muslims should say that this man made is like Qur'an or not and they will never say that.

Did I understand correctly???
Nope. That is not what we are saying or trying to tell you. What we are trying to help you understand is that the "challenge" in the Qur'an is meaningless.
 
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