Basis for Trusting Muhammad?

[psychoslice]

How can we trust anything that was written many years ago, after every man and his dog have added their own opinion, I know that Muslims believe that their word is untouched but I cannot believe that. of course it has, and to believe otherwise is wishful thinking, this is what I belive.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Ok, how does what Muhammad said differ from what Christians were saying that would have made you more inclined to follow Muhammad over the Christians of the day?

I wasn't there so I don't know what the Christians of his day were saying. My only point was that my basis for trusting Muhammad (pbuh) would have ultimately been the same as my basis for trusting what any other person said/says (on these matters) - whether it rang/rings true for me. If I had lived at the time of Moses (pbuh), my basis for trusting Moses would have been the same.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

But I'm interested in hearing why Muslims today believe that Muhammad must have been a prophet.

But that's not what you asked.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Create life by using the non-living matter

Salaam,

Depending on how one defines 'life', this has already happened or will happen in the not-too-distant future:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_biology#Synthetic_life

Wassalaam

 

[FearGod]

Salaam,

Depending on how one defines 'life', this has already happened or will happen in the not-too-distant future:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_biology#Synthetic_life

Wassalaam

It still needs a living cell to work.

 

[Sundance]

Really, I thought it was Bahaullah said that. "No manifestation of God for the next 800 years".

Ah, boy. The thing most wrong with this reply.... Oh God.

Thia is not to derail the thread, but allow me - if you will - to clarify this, dear Aup:

You say that you think Bahá’u’lláh makes a claim of finality in His Revelation. Uh, that's the complete opposite of the reality. Truth is, Bahá’u’lláh actually says:

“Those Sanctified Mirrors [The Messengers of God] will everlastingly succeed each other [meaning “God's Revelation, according to Bahá’u’lláh that is, will never end], and continue to reflect the Light of the Ancient of Days.”

Additionally, I see that you took the paraphrased verse from Gleanings, and you've disconnected it from the broader context in which it was written. Such context being reflected in the verse above. Yes, Bahá’u’lláh teaches that there will not be another Messenger for 840, 850 years (at the time He penned the Verse, it was 1,000), but He does, indeed, promise that another will come. Again take note, if you will, of the italicized verse from Gleanings above. That's clearly not a claim to finality. Bahá’u’lláh never makes such a claim. In fact, He even criticizes the claim, noting the facts of the matter of Revelation: it's ongoing, eternal, everlasting. (I mean, this idea in our Faith is called “progressive revelation” for a reason, y’know.) So, I'm not sure as to what you were trying to convey here. Please explain.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yes, Bahá’u’lláh teaches that there will not be another Messenger for 840, 850 years ..

That is exactly what I mean, making it safe for his progeny for 30 generations had his line not ended in two generations. There are Ismalilis with their Imams and a few sects in Hinduism too (Pushtimargis and Swaminarayans).Very much like Tata and Birla business empires in India being handed from one generation to another.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ismaili_imams
http://www.nathdwara.in/tilkayat_parampara.php
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swaminarayan#Death_and_succession

 

[Sundance]

That is exactly what I mean, making it safe for his progeny for 35 generations had his line not ended in two generations. There are Ismalilis with their Imams and a few sects in Hinduism too (Pushtimargis and Swaminarayans).Very much like Tta and Birla business empires in India being handed from one generation to another.

http://www.nathdwara.in/tilkayat_parampara.php
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swaminarayan#Death_and_succession

Uhhhhhh...Aup, did you read the rest of what I wrote?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Oh yes. That he does not close the door permanently to others unlike Mohammad after 840 years. Of course, God will not send another son like Jesus, another to shed blood for the original misdeed which makes all humanity eternally sinners. Very interesting religious gymnastics vaults.
"(at the time He penned the Verse, it was 1,000)": What is that?

 

[arthra]

A man comes out of a cave and claims he recieved a prophecy. Why do you believe him?

Yes, I understand he was successful in his wars. But does that make him more heaven-sent than any other successful general?

If you were around in the time of Muhammad, on what basis would you believe he's telling the truth?

A good knowledge of the life and ministry of Prophet Muhammad has taught me a lot about what kind of Person He was...

He was orphaned relatively young and raised by His uncle.. In His early life He was a shepherd. IN His later life He showed His partiality for orphans and the poor... He had no formal ecclesiastical or religious training and was illiterate. He married a woman considerably older than He was and children by her and was monogamous with her for some twenty years in a polygamous society.

His first revelations occurred on Mount Hira overlooking Mecca and for six years He was derided and insulted by the Meccan pagans... His followers were mocked and insulted... Some were forced to exile to Ethiopia... Eventually the pagans conspired to assassinate Him in His bed and He was forced to flee to Medina. At this time revelation was received allowing the Prophet and His followers to defend themselves by force.

The Meccan pagans who had superior numbers and arms mounted an attack on Medina to destroy the new community and the new Faith but failed.

An ongoing war ensued and eventually the superior arms and deceit of the pagans of Mecca were defeated.

Arabia was united as never before and the new monotheistic Faith was accepted... polytheism of the pagans was defeated.

I also feel the real strength of Islam was the revealed Word which we call the Qur'an and the manner it dealt with the issues facing the believers of their day.

Here are a few sources online I would like to share:

http://www.pbs.org/muhammad/timeline_html.shtml

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad

 

[Sundance]

Oh yes. That he does not close the door permanently to others unlike Mohammad after 840 years. Of course, God will not send another son like Jesus, another to shed blood for the original misdeed which makes all humanity eternally sinners. Very interesting religious gymnastics vaults.
"(at the time He penned the Verse, it was 1,000)": What is that?

Yeaaaaah, gymnastics.....let's call it that, because that's exactly what it is. You're totally not off the mark...

As to the 1,000-year reference, when Bahá’u’lláh had written the Verse, he said “1,000 years”, but since then, 150, 160 years at the most have passed since then. You do the math.

 

[Sundance]

Yeaaaaah, gymnastics.....let's call it that, because that's exactly what it is. You're totally not off the mark...

Aup, you do recognize that this is sarcasm, yes?

 

[Aupmanyav]

A good knowledge of the life and ministry of Prophet Muhammad has taught me a lot about what kind of Person He was ..

No denying. The whole world knows about that.

Aup, you do recognize that this is sarcasm, yes?

Does not matter. I take all things in my stride.

 

[interminable]

A man comes out of a cave and claims he recieved a prophecy. Why do you believe him?

Yes, I understand he was successful in his wars. But does that make him more heaven-sent than any other successful general?

If you were around in the time of Muhammad, on what basis would you believe he's telling the truth?

Sir
Miracle is miracle

Ability of talk is something that is bestowed upon everyone and after 14 centuries Noone could bring like the quran
No need to think deeply or push yourself
14 centuries Allah said in his book that sun and moon both of them have their special orbit and all are moving
But west understood it 4 centuries ago

This is a miracle that an illiterate person receives from Allah

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Sir
Miracle is miracle

Ability of talk is something that is bestowed upon everyone and after 14 centuries Noone could bring like the quran
No need to think deeply or push yourself
14 centuries Allah said in his book that sun and moon both of them have their special orbit and all are moving
But west understood it 4 centuries ago

This is a miracle that an illiterate person receives from Allah

And centuries before that, the Greeks had figured out that the world was round and that the Earth orbited the Sun. Guess that means the Greek gods are true.

 

[interminable]

And centuries before that, the Greeks had figured out that the world was round and that the Earth orbited the Sun. Guess that means the Greek gods are true.

How can u prove it???
It's just a statement without any evidence
They say 4 centuries ago by telescope we were able to look through the sky and first person is galileo
If you are right they didn't say such things

Besides he was just an illiterate person

 

[Aupmanyav]

Ability of talk is something that is bestowed upon everyone and after 14 centuries Noone could bring like the quran. No need to think deeply or push yourself.
14 centuries Allah said in his book that sun and moon both of them have their special orbit and all are moving. But west understood it 4 centuries ago.

Welcome, Interminable. One more. Yeah, no need to think, really. Alhamdulillah.

Besides he was just an illiterate person

When was that a problem to those chosen by Allah?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

How can u prove it???
It's just a statement without any evidence
They say 4 centuries ago by telescope we were able to look through the sky and first person is galileo
If you are right they didn't say such things

Besides he was just an illiterate person

Here's information about an ancient Greek astronomer called Aristarkhos of Samos whose work proposing heliocentrism is referenced by Archimedes in his book The Sand Reckoner. If Aristarkhos' claims can be dismissed as a lucky guess because they didn't have telescopes then so can yours. And I doubt Muhammad was illiterate - there's no reason to believe a person incapable of reading or writing can produce a book any more than a man without hands can manually carve something out of wood.

 

[psychoslice]

Personally I don't trust anyone, especially when they call themselves a prohibit of god, I meet many like that when in the mental ward.

 

[Augustus]

14 centuries Allah said in his book that sun and moon both of them have their special orbit and all are moving

People with eyes can see the moon and sun 'moving' across the skies every day. There is nothing in these verses that suggests anything other than a poetic discussion of the directly observable:

And a sign for them is the night; We strip it of the day and lo, they are in darkness. (37) And the sun -- it runs to a fixed resting-place; that is the ordaining of the All-mighty, the All-knowing. (38) And the moon -- We have determined it by stations, till it returns like an aged palm-bough. (39) It behoves not the sun to overtake the moon, neither does the night outstrip the day, each swimming in a sky.

He created the heavens and the earth in truth, wrapping night about the day, and wrapping the day about the night; and He has subjected the sun and the moon, each of them running to a stated term. Is not He the All-mighty, the All-forgiving? (5)

This whole 'scientific miracles' idea was a Saudi PR stunt from the 1980s and tends to only work with a massive dose of credulity combined with a lack of knowledge of the history of scientific discoveries

How can u prove it???

Pythagoras proved the world was round with a couple of sticks. From a scientific perspective at least, this is more impressive than a vague metaphor about the sun and moon swimming through the sky.