Basis of Belief

[Sheldon]

Whatever somebody's preference is, there is a fact about the preference. Not the preference itself. That's where you go wrong all the time.

The irony is he is dealing in absolutes, and yet pretending it is the other way around. He is insisting something is either subjective or objective, as if they are two mutually exclusive extremes.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

...

In all the excitement you've missed (ignored) my questions again.

So if something is a personal feeling, it is also not also a personal feeling.

So If I like apples, that is not objective because I like and it is objective, because I like. Is that it?
Or it is that because you can understand that I like apples, it becomes objective, because how?

 

[Sheldon]

If you can do bad objectively then submit your finding to a relevant scientific organization.

That's a reductio ad absurdum fallacy...

No one has mentioned science, so another of your ludicrous straw men, and chopping someone's head off is objectively bad for them. Now whether we consider that immoral requires a subjective opinion. You are ignoring the distinction here again, and misrepresenting what has been said.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The irony is he is dealing in absolutes, and yet pretending it is the other way around. He is insisting something is either subjective or objective, as if they are two mutually exclusive extremes.

Yeah, I like apples is both a personal feeling and not a personal feeling at the same time and in the same sense.

 

[Sheldon]

So if something is a personal feeling, it is also not also a personal feeling.

So If I like apples, that is not objective because I like and it is objective, because I like. Is that it?
Or it is that because you can understand that I like apples, it becomes objective, because how?

You ignored my questions again.

1. You do understand that subjective and objective are not mutually exclusive right?

2. For example if I said red was the best colour that would be just my opinion, but the more I expressed this publicly, then the more objective evidence others would have that red was my favourite colour. You see the difference there don't you?

 

[Lain]

objective detriment?

I think he simply finds the word "detriment" to be a non-objective judgment on what it is, but perhaps his answer will differ.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

That's a reductio ad absurdum fallacy...

No one has mentioned science, so another of your ludicrous straw man, and chopping someone's head off is objectively bad for them. Now whether we consider that immoral requires a subjective opinion. You are ignoring the distinction here againi, and misrepresenting what has been said.

I like apples is both a personal feeling and not a personal feeling at the same time and in the same sense.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

You ignored my questions again.

1. You do understand that subjective and objective are not mutually exclusive right?

2. For example if I said red was the best colour that would be just my opinion, but the more I expressed this publicly, then the more objective evidence others would have that red was my favourite colour. You see the difference there don't you?

If objective is not a personal feeling, then how can that I personally like apples, be a case of that is not a personal feeling.

 

[Sheldon]

I like apples is both a personal feeling and not a personal feeling at the same time and in the same sense.

Stop making up straw man analogies that are not remotely what was said and read what actually was said, this might help.

1. Is chopping someone's head off objectively bad for them?
2. Do you see how answering yes to 1 is not a moral judgement?
3. Do you see how the objective fact of a yes, might help someone make a subjective moral judgment about cutting someone's head?

You are ignoring the distinction here between the two.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Stop making up straw man analogies that are not remotely what was said and read what actually was said, this might help.

1. Is chopping someone's head off objectively bad for them?
2. Do you see how answering yes to 1 is not a moral judgement?
3. Do you see how the objective fact of a yes, might help someone make a subjective moral judgment about cutting someone's head?

You are ignoring the distinction here between the two.

I can't replicate bad as objective, as it is not objective. I can understand how a human don't want to die. I don't want to die either.

 

[Sheldon]

I can't replicate bad as objective, as it is not objective. I can understand how a human don't want to die. I don't want to die either.

Don't remove the words for them, as that misrepresents the question. Are you saying chopping off someone's head is not objectively bad for them? Otherwise my questions still stand.

1. Is chopping someone's head off objectively bad for them?
2. Do you see how answering yes to 1 is not a moral judgement?
3. Do you see how the objective fact of a yes, might help someone make a subjective moral judgment about cutting someone's head?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Are you saying chopping off someone's head is not objectively bad for them? Otherwise my questions still stand.

1. Is chopping someone's head off objectively bad for them?
2. Do you see how answering yes to 1 is not a moral judgement?
3. Do you see how the objective fact of a yes, might help someone make a subjective moral judgment about cutting someone's head?

Yes, since to me bad is not objective.

 

[Sheldon]

Yes, since to me bad is not objective.

I didn't say bad, I said bad for them.

So I ask again.

1. Is chopping someone's head off objectively bad for them?
2. Do you see how answering yes to 1 is not a moral judgement?
3. Do you see how the objective fact of a yes, might help someone make a subjective moral judgment about cutting someone's head?

 

[AppieB]

I think he simply finds the word "detriment" to be a non-objective judgment on what it is, but perhaps his answer will differ.

I'll try settle this without using a non-objective judgement.
In case of the following sentence: "detrimental to health" I mean: It affects health in a way that leads to a less healthy body and/or when these affects get stronger could eventually lead to death.
Is that satisfactory for @mikkel_the_dane ?

That's all what I mean by detrimental/bad in context of health and well being.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I didn't say bad, I said bad for them.

So I ask again.

1. Is chopping someone's head off objectively bad for them?
2. Do you see how answering yes to 1 is not a moral judgement?
3. Do you see how the objective fact of a yes, might help someone make a subjective moral judgment about cutting someone's head?

No, it is subjectively bad for them, as far as I can tell. And I also find it subjectively wrong to kill another human if it is not allowed in the laws.
As for your use of see, I can't see it as observe with my eyes. Your usage is this version as far as I can tell: -discern or deduce after reflection or from information; understand.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I'll try settle this without using a non-objective judgement.
In case of the following sentence: "detrimental to health" I mean: It affects health in a way that leads to a less healthy body and/or when these affects get stronger could eventually lead to death.
Is that satisfactory for @mikkel_the_dane ?

That's all what I mean by detrimental/bad in context of health and well being.

Yes, we can agree on that. That is descriptive and thus not a personal feeling and so on. But then we run into the is-ought problem.

 

[AppieB]

Yes, we can agree on that. That is descriptive and thus not a personal feeling and so on. But then we run into the is-ought problem.

No, you want to go straight to the is-ought problem while I'm not even talking about the is-ought problem.
Meanwhile you're still confusing the preference (subjective) with the fact what somebody's preference is (objective/descriptive).
My girlfriend prefers coriander. That's her subjective evaluation of the taste of coriander. It is not a fact (not objective) that coriander is tasty.
But it is a fact (objectively true) that my girlfriend likes coriander (descriptive).

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

No, you want to go straight to the is-ought problem while I'm not even talking about the is-ought problem.
Meanwhile you're still confusing the preference (subjective) with the fact what somebody's preference is (objective/descriptive).
My girlfriend prefers coriander. That's her subjective evaluation of the taste of coriander. It is not a fact (not objective) that coriander is tasty.
But it is a fact (objectively true) that my girlfriend likes coriander (descriptive).

You have to explain what you mean by that it is objectively true.

 

[AppieB]

You have to explain what you mean by that it is objectively true.

No I don't have to.
1. My girlfriend prefers coriander (subjective)
2. It is true that girlfriend likes coriander (descriptive).
Could we at least agree these are two different things?

 

[Sheldon]

No, it is subjectively bad for them, as far as I can tell.

You think the effects of having our head chopped off are just a matter of opinion?