Batley Grammar School - Compensation for the suspended teacher?

[Twilight Hue]

If the teacher didn't realize a cartoon of Mohammed was problematic, s/he probably shouldn't be teaching religious studies.

Additionally this should be a place for a church or temple, not a school. Religious studies should not even belong there.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Any idea how soon?
Later this year would be great.

It will take a little longer...

 

[Revoltingest]

It will take a little longer...

Dang....punished again for unreasonably high hopes.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Dang....punished again for unreasonably high hopes.

LOL!

 

[exchemist]

It makes me wonder why there are even religious studies inside a grade/ high school situation the first place.

Well that is a rather good feature of the British education system. We teach our citizens-to-be some of the basics of the major religions so that, given they will come across them in society, they will know enough about them to lessen the chance they will fear them, ridicule them or develop bigoted views about them due to ignorance.

From some of the comments on this forum, I would think US schools might in future benefit from this approach too.

 

[Revoltingest]

Well that is a rather good feature of the British education system. We teach our citizens-to-be some of the basics of the major religions so that, given they will come across them in society, they will know enough about them to lessen the chance they will fear them, ridicule them or develop bigoted views about them due to ignorance.

From some of the comments on this forum, I would think US schools might in future benefit from this approach too.

I don't see Brits coping all that well with Islam.

 

[Orbit]

Additionally this should be a place for a church or temple, not a school. Religious studies should not even belong there.

I can't say as I agree that religious studies has no place in education. Students should understand a bit about the history, and history of conflicts between religions; and understand the basics of different belief systems. Religion in school isn't taught like it's Sunday school, it's academic and done with critical thinking.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I don't see Brits coping all that well with Islam.

I still remember London's muslim mayor
Sadiq Khan along with the uproar that followed.

 

[danieldemol]

Another example might be that a teacher in a discussion on racism has the choice of saying the full version of the 'n word' repeatedly in a 'non-offensive' manner, or simply referring to 'the n word'. For what reason would it make sense to say ****** knowing full well what the response would be from numerous students?

It is an interesting comparison. As I understand it, the N word was historically used as a derogatory term to dehumanise people of African descent.

Pictures of Muhammad on the contrary where used by early Muslims who respected Muhammad, and later Muslims scrubbed the faces off them if I recall correctly. Sikhs use pictures of Muhammad respectfully, the teacher was found to have had no intention to disrespect, and arguably the best way to avoid inculcating authoritarianism is with a healthy degree of disrespect for political/religious leaders (Muhammad was both).

None of the above categories as I see it, is intended to dehumanise Muslims. So I don't see a comparison between use of the N word and cartoons of Muhammad.

 

[Clara Tea]

Hi,

Background: UK's Batley Grammar School is the school where a teacher was suspended in March after showing his pupils a cartoon of Muhammad during a Religious Studies discussion about blasphemy.

The Batley Multi Academy Trust commissioned an inquiry into the incident which found;

"The findings are clear, that the teaching staff involved did not use the resource with the intention of causing offence, and that the topics covered by the lesson could have been effectively addressed in other ways. In the light of those conclusions, the suspensions put in place while the investigation was underway will now be lifted." 1

So in summary the teacher appears to have used the resource (Ie the cartoon of Muhammad) *not* with the intention of offending, and the teacher should have been trained in effective ways of addressing the lesson without the cartoons if the school wanted to not risk offending Islamists whilst providing a quality education.

In other words the teacher got suspended over a training issue, which is the school's fault, not the teachers.

The school's website appears to address that it was a training issue, "The investigation recommends that the issues raised can be effectively dealt with through additional management guidance and training."

Therefore the teacher should be compensated for the suspension by the school, and if possible also for the demonisation and death threats2 he is alleged to have recieved by the parties making those threats and demonisation.

In my opinion.

Do you think the teacher should receive financial compensation?

1 Batley Grammar School - Home
2 Batley Grammar and the triumph of the mob | The Spectator

We must be politically correct and ignore the various acts of terrorism from the Islamic faith. We must make sure that no measures against terrorism target Islamics more than others.

It can be very trying to steal one's natural instincts. If we hear about an Arab terrorist lighting his tennis shoe bomb on fire on a flight, we must do the kind thing and not mention it.

 

[Shakeel]

They should have known better. No, they don't deserve compensation. But if they seek compensation then I wonder if they knew full well what they were doing. Because if they didn't, they would feel ashamed. When a person is ashamed they don't make a lot of noise.

 

[exchemist]

I still remember London's muslim mayor
Sadiq Khan along with the uproar that followed.

There was no uproar. Where do you get this nonsense?

Sadiq Khan has just been re-elected, with a large majority, for a second term. His religion is simply not an issue in the slightest.

We Londoners just don't share the bigotry of these right wing Americans that you seem to get your information from. Probably because we've actual experience of living alongside muslims here.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Well that is a rather good feature of the British education system. We teach our citizens-to-be

Kids are citizens, too.

some of the basics of the major religions so that, given they will come across them in society, they will know enough about them to lessen the chance they will fear them, ridicule them or develop bigoted views about them due to ignorance.

From some of the comments on this forum, I would think US schools might in future benefit from this approach too.

... for all the good it's done you.

You do realize that:

- it's still illegal for anyone "professing the popish religion" to be head of state of your (and by unfortunate extention, my) country?

- the foundational documents of your country's official state church describe the Pope as an "antichrist"?

 

[Twilight Hue]

I can't say as I agree that religious studies has no place in education. Students should understand a bit about the history, and history of conflicts between religions; and understand the basics of different belief systems. Religion in school isn't taught like it's Sunday school, it's academic and done with critical thinking.

I don't see how any religious subject could be academic nor critically approached givin how these scenarios usually play out.

I can see a college level course addressing religion because it's elective study, but not grade school and high school.

 

[exchemist]

Kids are citizens, too.



... for all the good it's done you.

You do realize that:

- it's still illegal for anyone "professing the popish religion" to be head of state of your (and by unfortunate extention, my) country?

- the foundational documents of your country's official state church describe the Pope as an "antichrist"?

This is quite funny. I don't know why you have your knickers in a twist about our constitution, suddenly.

It's fairly obvious that since the monarch is the Supreme Governor of the Church of England, that person can't very well be a Catholic - or indeed a Jew, Muslim or Hindu. Since the monarchy is hereditary and purely symbolic, it really does not matter to anyone, except perhaps to the person who has the job.

Re Antichrist, if you are referring to the Cromwell era Westminster Confession of Faith, that is not followed by the C of E, though I think it may be by the Presbyterians (Church of Scotland) and various more Protestant denominations. According to my understanding, the founding principles of the The C of E are the Thirty Nine Articles. These do not describe the pope as the Antichrist, to my knowledge. Do you have something else in mind?

But none of this has any bearing on the wisdom or otherwise of teaching religious studies in British schools.

 

[exchemist]

I don't see how any religious subject could be academic nor critically approached givin how these scenarios usually play out.

I can see a college level course addressing religion because it's elective study, but not grade school and high school.

What do you mean about "how these scenarios play out"? What scenarios?

My son experienced these classes a few years ago, between the ages of 11 and 14 or so, I think it was. In addition to the basics of Christianity, he was taught an outline of Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist and Muslim beliefs and philosophy and what the major festivals signify. Visits were arranged to a synagogue, a mosque and to Hindu and Buddhist temples. They were expected to be able to write a bit about what they had learnt, to check their knowledge.

It's not rocket science. It's just making yourself aware of a little about the traditions of the people around you. I don't know why you find it difficult.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Do you think the teacher should receive financial compensation?

Yes.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

At the same time, teachers should know how to teach responsibly. I suspect that the school did not supply the cartoon, and it's pretty damn obvious that the teacher wholly ill prepared to provide anything approximating "a quality education."

As a compromise, I propose the following: Let the teacher write 500 times

"I will not teach a topic about which I am grossly uninformed."​

And you know this, how? Did you wake up being able to read minds.
There's nothing wrong with showing an image of Muhammad (I even did it at a college symposium). The issue is when people become so dogmatic in their ways that even minor, trivial things that are easily ignored and omitted from one's life become major issues where everyone is expected to cater to the dogma of extremists. We should never do that. If they tell us to stop, we are not obligated to stop. We should instead stand firmly against any extremist or dogmatic views being enforced. And punishing people for showing the picture of Muhammad, especially in ways ruinous to their life, is never right.
This didn't happen in Iran or Saudi Arabia. It happened in the West. We should not cater to those who don't respect our ways and rights. If they are that uncomfortable with it, they can go to a place where such things are swiftly punished.

 

[Shakeel]

We should not cater to those who don't respect our ways and rights.

So, how have I not respected your ways and your rights? And why does it mean you get to insult me?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So, how have I not respected your ways and your rights? And why does it mean you get to insult me?

Demanding we not show an image of Muhammad, to the point there are repercussions for it, is to spit upon laws and rights.
And showing and image of Muhammad isn't insulting you. It's not about you. It's not something to take personally. You don't have to like it, but it should never be expected that we censor ourselves.