Batley Grammar School - Compensation for the suspended teacher?

[Jayhawker Soule]

And you know this, how? Did you wake up being able to read minds.

No, I woke up able to make reasonably inferences.

There's nothing wrong with showing an image of Muhammad (I even did it at a college symposium).

So, it's not insulting to a large number of the 1.8 billion Muslims on the planet because you were thoughtless and rude at some symposium? Some arguments are islamophobic, some simply stupid, and some are both.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Hi,

Background: UK's Batley Grammar School is the school where a teacher was suspended in March after showing his pupils a cartoon of Muhammad during a Religious Studies discussion about blasphemy.

The Batley Multi Academy Trust commissioned an inquiry into the incident which found;

"The findings are clear, that the teaching staff involved did not use the resource with the intention of causing offence, and that the topics covered by the lesson could have been effectively addressed in other ways. In the light of those conclusions, the suspensions put in place while the investigation was underway will now be lifted." 1

So in summary the teacher appears to have used the resource (Ie the cartoon of Muhammad) *not* with the intention of offending, and the teacher should have been trained in effective ways of addressing the lesson without the cartoons if the school wanted to not risk offending Islamists whilst providing a quality education.

In other words the teacher got suspended over a training issue, which is the school's fault, not the teachers.

The school's website appears to address that it was a training issue, "The investigation recommends that the issues raised can be effectively dealt with through additional management guidance and training."

Therefore the teacher should be compensated for the suspension by the school, and if possible also for the demonisation and death threats2 he is alleged to have recieved by the parties making those threats and demonisation.

In my opinion.

Do you think the teacher should receive financial compensation?

1 Batley Grammar School - Home
2 Batley Grammar and the triumph of the mob | The Spectator

Unless he broke a law or a rule of the school - he should be compensated.

 

[danieldemol]

So, it's not insulting to a large number of the 1.8 billion Muslims on the planet because you were thoughtless and rude at some symposium? Some arguments are islamophobic, some simply stupid, and some are both.

Why do you feel that irrational feelings of insult are worthy of protection?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No, I woke up able to make reasonably inferences.


So, it's not insulting to a large number of the 1.8 billion Muslims on the planet because you were thoughtless and rude at some symposium? Some arguments are islamophobic, some simply stupid, and some are both.

Flat out bans and censorship are stupid. Refusing to acknowledge context is stupid. Expecting people to cater to your fragile sensitivities is stupid.
And, no. It is not inherently insulting to Muslims to show an image of Muhammad. No more than it is disrespectful to a vegan for me to eat cheese.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Why do you feel that irrational feelings of insult are worthy of protection?

When did you stop beating your wife?

 

[danieldemol]

When did you stop beating your wife?

Ha ha, go on then, tell me how being insulted at any and all portrayals of a spiritual leader is rational?

 

[Twilight Hue]

What do you mean about "how these scenarios play out"? What scenarios?

My son experienced these classes a few years ago, between the ages of 11 and 14 or so, I think it was. In addition to the basics of Christianity, he was taught an outline of Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist and Muslim beliefs and philosophy and what the major festivals signify. Visits were arranged to a synagogue, a mosque and to Hindu and Buddhist temples. They were expected to be able to write a bit about what they had learnt, to check their knowledge.

It's not rocket science. It's just making yourself aware of a little about the traditions of the people around you. I don't know why you find it difficult.

What do think all those scenarios of teaching ID and or Creationism in schools is? Flights of fancy?

To give an actual real life example of such a scenario I would suggest looking up Kitzmiller v. Dover.

What starts up as just an innocent mention of any type of religion, particularly theism, almost always ends up as something more than what was intended.

 

[danieldemol]

When did you stop beating your wife?

Was i meant to feel insulted by this? You'll find Australians aren't easily insulted except by comparison to New Zealanders although even this is changing since Jacinda Arden became prime minister of NZ

 

[danieldemol]

@Jayhawker Soule I'm not inclined to think you believe in authoritarianism, if this is a common goal between us, isn't the best way to avoid authoritarianism to have light hearted irreverence (ie to be able to joke about the human shortcomings of) our political and spiritual leaders?

 

[exchemist]

What do think all those scenarios of teaching ID and or Creationism in schools is? Flights of fancy?

To give an actual real life example of such a scenario I would suggest looking up Kitzmiller v. Dover.

What starts up as just an innocent mention of any type of religion, particularly theism, almost always ends up as something more than what was intended.

Totally irrelevant.

First, The teaching of ID is banned in English state schools.

Second, you have failed to grasp that the kids are not taught to believe any religion, but to understand what these religions are.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

When did you stop beating your wife?

Is that it? Something that's not even comparable?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Totally irrelevant.

First, The teaching of ID is banned in English state schools.

Second, you have failed to grasp that the kids are not taught to believe any religion, but to understand what these religions are.

Hardly.

Any talk of ID inevitably steers towards a person's particular belief whenever the subject is brought up.

Religious studies is pointless and useless in a school setting because it always gravitates to the narrow view of any particular denomination or affiliation.

 

[exchemist]

Hardly.

Any talk of ID inevitably steers towards a person's particular belief whenever the subject is brought up.

Religious studies is pointless and useless in a school setting because it always gravitates to the narrow view of any particular denomination or affiliation.

This response is idiotic. What talk of ID?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

@Jayhawker Soule I'm not inclined to think you believe in authoritarianism, if this is a common goal between us, isn't the best way to avoid authoritarianism to have light hearted irreverence (ie to be able to joke about the human shortcomings of) our political and spiritual leaders?

In my opinion: of course. But my opinion is woefully inadequate grounds for knowingly and unnecessarily insulting millions upon millions of people. If, on the other hand it was not done knowingly, this clearly speaks to to qualifications of the teacher to broach the topic. Knowing what one does not know strikes me as a minimum qualification for teaching.

None of what I've said should be construed as justifying threats against the teacher. Furthermore, if this Guardian article is reasonably accurate, I'm satisfied that the school has responded appropriately.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Is that it?

It's all your comment deserved.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Hi,

Background: UK's Batley Grammar School is the school where a teacher was suspended in March after showing his pupils a cartoon of Muhammad during a Religious Studies discussion about blasphemy.

The Batley Multi Academy Trust commissioned an inquiry into the incident which found;

"The findings are clear, that the teaching staff involved did not use the resource with the intention of causing offence, and that the topics covered by the lesson could have been effectively addressed in other ways. In the light of those conclusions, the suspensions put in place while the investigation was underway will now be lifted." 1

So in summary the teacher appears to have used the resource (Ie the cartoon of Muhammad) *not* with the intention of offending, and the teacher should have been trained in effective ways of addressing the lesson without the cartoons if the school wanted to not risk offending Islamists whilst providing a quality education.

In other words the teacher got suspended over a training issue, which is the school's fault, not the teachers.

The school's website appears to address that it was a training issue, "The investigation recommends that the issues raised can be effectively dealt with through additional management guidance and training."

Therefore the teacher should be compensated for the suspension by the school, and if possible also for the demonisation and death threats2 he is alleged to have recieved by the parties making those threats and demonisation.

In my opinion.

Do you think the teacher should receive financial compensation?

1 Batley Grammar School - Home
2 Batley Grammar and the triumph of the mob | The Spectator

Yes, he should be compensated. Plus the reaction of the crowd to go so far as to making death threats is why Draw Muhammad Day should be an international holiday.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No, I woke up able to make reasonably inferences.


So, it's not insulting to a large number of the 1.8 billion Muslims on the planet because you were thoughtless and rude at some symposium? Some arguments are islamophobic, some simply stupid, and some are both.

If Muslims get offended that is their problem.

I am changing my claim. What is needed is an international holiday where drawings of all religious prophets are encouraged. It would be wrong to pick on just the Muslims. Want to draw a female Jesus with purple hair? Go ahead and do so. The idea that a religion can tell others that they have to respect their deity has to end.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's all your comment deserved.

That wasn't my comment.

But my opinion is woefully inadequate grounds for knowingly and unnecessarily insulting millions upon millions of people.

If we do this for Muslims we have to it for others. Like Christians who themselves strongly believe in censorship and would even be offended over a country banning the teaching of ID. Should we all have to say "merry Christmas" because "happy holidays" offends them? Of course not. What about school lead prayer? That's another one Christians can bugger off on, no matter how offended they get over it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If Muslims get offended that is their problem.

I am changing my claim. What is needed is an international holiday where drawings of all religious prophets are encouraged. It would be wrong to pick on just the Muslims. Want to draw a female Jesus with purple hair? Go ahead and do so. The idea that a religion can tell others that they have to respect their deity has to end.

That's a great idea. There's actually more than Muhammad who isn't supposed to be portrayed.
It is long past time religious people learn and accept they cannot expect others to conform to something they don't believe in, just as it is wrong of them to expect we face consequences for violating something we do not believe in.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

If we do this for Muslims we have to it for others

Using the Charlie Hedbo cartoon to 'educate' a bunch of kids was insensitive, provocative, and, first and foremost, wholly unnecessary. So, yes, you should try to avoid ugly slights when reasonably possible, irrespective of the group that you seem so intent upon insulting.