Battle of the Sci-Fi Mega Franchises

[Trey of Diamonds]

Probably not a mega-franchise though - three movies out and one upcoming, a television series, and some books.

You forgot comic books so for me it counts higher than Firefly which still doesn't have any novelization on it.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I am not a fan of Star Wars, but it can't be simply dismissed as a western in space. There are other elements in there too, and it could not work if it was set in 18th Century Wild West.

Well, actually it can be - it doesn't share any fundamental component of what constitutes science fiction. The wild west might not be the ideal alternate location for the story, however feudal Japan would work nicely.

And what is the "fundamental component" of science fiction?

The reason Star Wars is not science fiction, is that the science isn't required to tell the story - besides the fact that most of the 'science' in it is embarrasingly incorrect. Star Wars is a fantasy/adventure movie about a boy on the hero's journey who weilds a sword and uses a magical power called the force. The setting could be changed to take place on a single fictional world, and nothing fundamental to communicating the story would be lost.

 

[Halcyon]

I just spent last week watching the first season on DVD for the second time. Awesome show.

Personally I was disappointed with the show as a whole. I thought the pilot was great, and then the last couple of episodes of the second series. The rest was a lot of filler IMO, each week I found myself trying to remember what had happened the week before and then realising I couldn't remember because, well, nothing had happened.

Are we sure its cancelled? I read somewhere that they're waiting to see how T4 does before renewing for a new season...

 

[Engyo]

So Trey -

When are we gonna talk about all the great SF series that HAVEN'T been made into movies/TV/comix (i.e. books only)?

 

[Engyo]

Another nega-plug........

I can't believe somebody had the gall to try and make Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth into a TV series ( and badly at that) ! Has anyone actually seen "Legends of the Seeker"? Somebody oughta be shot!

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Another nega-plug........

I can't believe somebody had the gall to try and make Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth into a TV series ( and badly at that) ! Has anyone actually seen "Legends of the Seeker"? Somebody oughta be shot!

I hate it because I caught a couple of episodes of that, and I recently began reading the series again - now I keep picturing the characters from the TV series, which differed greatly from how I pictured them the first time I read it. It's driving me nuts, but I'm slowly trying to morph them back into my original imagining of the characters.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

The reason Star Wars is not science fiction, is that the science isn't required to tell the story

As has been pointed out and ignored several times. You are complaining about the difference between hard and soft science fiction. If you are going to be a purest and only accept hard science fiction as true science fiction then I fail to understand how any of these series can qualify. None of them have very scientific backgrounds at all.

 

[J Bryson]

Well, actually it can be - it doesn't share any fundamental component of what constitutes science fiction. The wild west might not be the ideal alternate location for the story, however feudal Japan would work nicely.

What makes you say that?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

What makes you say that?

Frubals.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I can't believe somebody had the gall to try and make Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth into a TV series ( and badly at that) ! Has anyone actually seen "Legends of the Seeker"? Somebody oughta be shot!

It wasn't as bad as the terrible job Sci-Fi Channel did on Ursula Le Guin's Earthsea novels called the Legend of Earthsea. Ursula did a good job of explaining why it was such a bad adaptation and how it happened.

Ursula K. Le Guin on the TV Earthsea. - By Ursula K. Le Guin - Slate Magazine
Locus Online: Ursula K. LeGuin Earthsea Essay

 

[J Bryson]

Frubals.

I owe it all to hanging out with film geeks.

 

[Engyo]

It wasn't as bad as the terrible job Sci-Fi Channel did on Ursula Le Guin's Earthsea novels called the Legend of Earthsea. Ursula did a good job of explaining why it was such a bad adaptation and how it happened.

Ursula K. Le Guin on the TV Earthsea. - By Ursula K. Le Guin - Slate Magazine
Locus Online: Ursula K. LeGuin Earthsea Essay

Damn straight on this one too.

However, I actually did like the rework SciFi did of the Wizard of Oz with Zoe Deschanel........

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

However, I actually did like the rework SciFi did of the Wizard of Oz with Zoe Deschanel........

Yep, with Sci-Fi Channel there's no middle ground. You either love it or hate it. Tinman was spectacular as was Battlestar Galactica.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I owe it all to hanging out with film geeks.

I don't know - I thought that it could almost fall into the realm of common knowledge at this point. You definitely don't need to be a film geek to be aware of the background of Star Wars with all the books, tv shows, and articles that have been pushed out in the last decade.

 

[J Bryson]

I don't know - I thought that it could almost fall into the realm of common knowledge at this point. You definitely don't need to be a film geek to be aware of the background of Star Wars with all the books, tv shows, and articles that have been pushed out in the last decade.

Very few of which I've read due to my Trek loyalty.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Check out this space battle between Babylon 5 and Star Trek. Great graphics.

YouTube - Star Trek vs. Babylon 5 - The Final Fight ( Part I )
YouTube - Star Trek vs. Babylon 5 - The Final Fight ( Part II )

 

[rojse]

The reason Star Wars is not science fiction, is that the science isn't required to tell the story - besides the fact that most of the 'science' in it is embarrasingly incorrect. Star Wars is a fantasy/adventure movie about a boy on the hero's journey who weilds a sword and uses a magical power called the force. The setting could be changed to take place on a single fictional world, and nothing fundamental to communicating the story would be lost.

A character wielding a sword does not disclude it from being an SF story - Snow Crash and The Book of the New Sun are indisputably SF, yet the character in Snow Crash (Hiro Protagonist, what an awesome name) wields a pair of katanas, while in "The Book of the New Sun" Severian wields Terminus Est, a large claymore used for beheadings. And psychic powers are part of SF too. Not the sort of SF I am interested in, certainly, but SF nonetheless.

Regarding your main argument, a lot of SF stories are not steeped in science. In fact, some of my favourite SF stories have next to no science in them whatsoever; they use SF as a vehicle to examine moral and philosophical ideas that could not be examined in any other genre. Philip K Dick, for example, is unquestionably an SF author, but his writing contains very little science at all.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

A character wielding a sword does not disclude it from being an SF story - Snow Crash and The Book of the New Sun are indisputably SF, yet the character in Snow Crash (Hiro Protagonist, what an awesome name) wields a pair of katanas, while in "The Book of the New Sun" Severian wields Terminus Est, a large claymore used for beheadings. And psychic powers are part of SF too. Not the sort of SF I am interested in, certainly, but SF nonetheless.

Regarding your main argument, a lot of SF stories are not steeped in science. In fact, some of my favourite SF stories have next to no science in them whatsoever; they use SF as a vehicle to examine moral and philosophical ideas that could not be examined in any other genre. Philip K Dick, for example, is unquestionably an SF author, but his writing contains very little science at all.

Well, let's try it this way. Why do you think Star Wars should be classified as science fiction?

 

[rojse]

Well, let's try it this way. Why do you think Star Wars should be classified as science fiction?

It uses the tropes associated with science fiction.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

It uses the tropes associated with science fiction.

So, the mere fact that it contains spaceships and droids makes it science fiction. I guess I can understand why some would see it this way - I guess I just see it that the 'tropes' need to be necessary to tell the story in order for it to be science fiction.