Wherenextcolumbus
Well-Known Member
You're kidding, right? I worked in law enforcement before I retired. I don't know anything about societal pressure to conform.
Then you should know beauty standards are imposed before they are self-imposed.
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You're kidding, right? I worked in law enforcement before I retired. I don't know anything about societal pressure to conform.
Then you should know beauty standards are imposed before they are self-imposed.
We have a choice as to whether or not we cave to the pressure. You can be weak and submit or you can be strong and say "F you. I'm my own woman."
The OP started with the premise that women don't want to do it, that we lie to ourselves about enjoying it, etc.I just want to add that this thread wasn't meant to be taken personally and for people to list in detail their beauty regimes and what they are willing and not willing to do themselves. It was about how we have been socialised to view ourselves as women and to place more value on ourselves by what me look like than men. And for us to be able to be honest about it.
The OP started with the premise that women don't want to do it, that we lie to ourselves about enjoying it, etc.
So, some people including myself responded that, at least for us, that's not the case. That it's not a universal experience. I can't get in the heads of other people and say what they think, but I can say what's in my own head, when presented with an OP like that.
I agree with the other points, like the tumblr link, and the observation that (at least currently) women are pressured more than men to look nice and it can affect self-esteem. I'm sure some or many women do things they would prefer not to do.
What I meant is we lie to ourselves that it doesn't effect our self esteem and that it's authentic and that we would do it anyway if we weren't socialised this way as girls, not that we lie about wanting to do it, of course we want to do it, but under specific reasonings that are taught us, such as our natural bodies being unclean for example. Who wants to be viewed as unclean?
That is why we have to continue to fight. Unfortunately, as long as women comply, the attitudes will not change.
Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.
Women should do as they like. Screw what other people think.
I just want to add that this thread wasn't meant to be taken personally and for people to list in detail their beauty regimes and what they are willing and not willing to do themselves. It was about how we have been socialised to view ourselves as women and to place more value on ourselves by what me look like than men. And for us to be able to be honest about it.
I want women to look in the mirror and like what they see, not try to live up to some other person's standards.
The very first time a woman told me she didn't bother shaving her legs or pits in winter, it was like a light bulb going on for me. Like, wow, I'm doing a totally pointless thing! Before, I just did it on auto-pilot, because that's what women do and I so very much wanted to be a "woman" instead of a "girl". Likewise, the very first time a pair of men I really like and respect mentioned they prefer women without make-up, I was immediately relieved of any personal sense of obligation to wear make-up, which I'd also been doing without reflection.
I think that while the influence of the industry and social expectations is pervasive, it is also very shallow and vulnerable to a little serious reflection.
These days, I do practically nothing. I wear Blundstones or other flat, good quality shoes, do nothing with my hair but wash it and pull it out of my face. I'm even excited to be going grey. I think it's cool, and one of my favorite women growing up had long, silver hair and a youthful face. I still think that's beautiful.
I think that our culture's obsession with unattainable beauty standards is related to our general narcissism. We aspire to be exceptional rather than content, wise, ordinary or humble. We want to stand out, and both men and women use whatever tools they can to stand out and appear "better than" others. Smarter, prettier, faster, richer, stronger, etc. Faking it is not only acceptable, but encouraged.
And some of us view cosmetology as art.
I respect the woman who embraces her natural beauty and contest, again, that not all of us who embrace cosmetology and some beauty "trends" are doing so to elevate ourselves above people those that choose not too.
To the contrary, cosmetology, in particular can be a joyful form of artistic expression, just as music, painting on canvas, dance and other forms of expression can be.
If I feel prettier, it's a self edifying benefit and really has nothing to do with the other women around me.
Unless a person is making their own clothing and shoes, ignoring all fashion trends altogether and foregoes all skin care - there's some "buy in" to the same "on trend" facets of society that they front like they're opting out of.
Even the "natural look" (if one purchases from a store) found its way to on a runway. Most of our basic, frill-free skincare, even it its organic and purest form was designed for women by men, during more opressive points in our history.
I think it boils down to our personal perceptions of beauty and personal expectations. Afterall, if we're fulfiling personal expectations, and embracing our own freedoms - at the root of it, we really just have problems with one another, issues that likely stem from our own insecurities and jealousy.
And some of us view cosmetology as art.
I respect the woman who embraces her natural beauty and contest, again, that not all of us who embrace cosmetology and some beauty "trends" are doing so to elevate ourselves above people those that choose not too.
To the contrary, cosmetology, in particular can be a joyful form of artistic expression, just as music, painting on canvas, dance and other forms of expression can be.
If I feel prettier, it's a self edifying benefit and really has nothing to do with the other women around me.
Unless a person is making their own clothing and shoes, ignoring all fashion trends altogether and foregoes all skin care - there's some "buy in" to the same "on trend" facets of society that they front like they're opting out of.
Even the "natural look" (if one purchases from a store) found its way to on a runway. Most of our basic, frill-free skincare, even it its organic and purest form was designed for women by men, during more opressive points in our history.
I think it boils down to our personal perceptions of beauty and personal expectations. Afterall, if we're fulfiling personal expectations, and embracing our own freedoms - at the root of it, we really just have problems with one another, issues that likely stem from our own insecurities and jealousy.
And some of us view cosmetology as art.
I respect the woman who embraces her natural beauty and contest, again, that not all of us who embrace cosmetology and some beauty "trends" are doing so to elevate ourselves above people those that choose not too.
To the contrary, cosmetology, in particular can be a joyful form of artistic expression, just as music, painting on canvas, dance and other forms of expression can be.
If I feel prettier, it's a self edifying benefit and really has nothing to do with the other women around me.
Unless a person is making their own clothing and shoes, ignoring all fashion trends altogether and foregoes all skin care - there's some "buy in" to the same "on trend" facets of society that they front like they're opting out of.
Even the "natural look" (if one purchases from a store) found its way to on a runway. Most of our basic, frill-free skincare, even it its organic and purest form was designed for women by men, during more opressive points in our history.
I think it boils down to our personal perceptions of beauty and personal expectations. Afterall, if we're fulfiling personal expectations, and embracing our own freedoms - at the root of it, we really just have problems with one another, issues that likely stem from our own insecurities and jealousy.
I too see makeup as an art form: Haute Haute Couture
But I don't think that is what we are talking about. We are talking about how women are made to feel unattractive or have issues with our natural selves in ways that men aren't. Makeup is mostly not marketed as a creative tool, but as a tool to hide "imperfections" on women specifically.
Three posts quoted for truth and for capturing the angles of these circumstances.What I think is tragic is the women I've known in my life who feel very anxious about going outside in public without their hair and make-up done, legs waxed, brows plucked, etc. I feel that is a tremendous loss of their personal freedom, a completely unnecessary psychological discomfort, and a monstrous waste of time for them.
From my perspective, nearly all of my female friends feel some form of anxiety about going out in public without doing something very time consuming and unnecessary about their appearance. I only know a couple of women who could feel just as comfortable about themselves dolled up to the nines or strolling outside in sweat pants without even bothering to look in the mirror, but they are women I believe are genuinely doing it for fun and the art of it.
Edited to add: that might have come out like I don't think you are one of the ones who is genuinely having fun with it - not the case. Sounds like you are.