Behind the killing of 8 Gazan family members

[LuisDantas]

It shows.

That is a relief, although I don't know that you meant that to be. While I am good at being blunt and painfully emphatic, I attempt to avoid it if I can.

How do you feel about Iraq under Sadam Hussein or Nouri al-Maliki, Syria under Bashar al-Assad, Saudi Arabia under Abdullah ibn Abdilazīz, Yemen under Abd Rabbuh Mansur Hadi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, Iran under Ayatollah Khamenei, … ?

I am pretty certain that they are not Israel, as well as that I never made a point of defending their existence as such. I wonder why you are even bringing them up. It is not like they are relevant here, at all.

In fact, it is most unusual for me to defend the rights for existence of any country, since I consider the notion so odd in the first place.

Did you expect me to have some sort of strong feelings about those places? Your question is very surprising, you know.

And what do you think Khaled Mashal and Mashal, whose genocidal ideology you seem so willing to condone?

My, aren't you a tease. So cute! You must be confusing me with some Prime Minister or GOP candidate, or something.

Let's see the Oracle to find out who those are...

Hamas? Really, Jay, you are not even trying. Who on Earth would ever mistake me for a Hamas supporter?

If you read my posts at all you know that I do not condone any genocidal ideologies. Not those from Hamas, not those from the US Military, nor those from the Israeli Prime Minister's cabinet.

Better luck next time. Or something.

 

[LuisDantas]

I really couldn't disagree with this statement more.

Many of the Jewish People seem to, for reasons apparently so far beyond my understanding. Maybe you can help me understand them?

The great centers of jewish learning in the late 19th and early 20th century existed predominantly in Europe and now no longer exist. Today the center of Torah study, THE place to go to study Judaism in its fullest is Israel.

Fair enough. Not a particularly moving piece of motivation for accepting a de facto situation of avoidable, permanent warfare, but fair enough.

If Israel as a Jewish state were to be erased tomorrow and replaced w/ some secular state made made up of Arabs and Jews would be a huge blow to the world jewish community.

It would? Then those people telling me that Israel is just such a secular state with Arabs and Jews are mistaken or lying?

Also, why would that be a bad thing exactly? Is Israel unprepared to deal with secularism? Or what?

and as to Israel being the main source of hardship for jews today, violent anti-Semitism existed across the globe before the beginning of the Zionist movement,

Was it fueled by the Jewish authorities to a comparable extent to that which we have seen since Israel's inauguration? Or particularly of today's, when it is pretty much a plain and acknowledge fact that Israel thinks little of subscribing to terrorist tactics and claiming that it needs those to survive?

and I am of the firm belief that such hatred and violence would continue in the absence of the state of Israel. Little about our history leads me to believe otherwise.

So I take it that you think the decades of history of Israel as the aggressor keeping Palestinians at bay, homeless, humiliated and prunned of civilians that had the bad sense of being born non-Israeli and having Palestinian families that somehow wanted to remain alive does not figure into that hatred and violence?

I truly don't know whether I should ask you to convince me of your perspective or to not even bother. Between you and me someone is committing some serious mistake of evaluating the situation. And that bothers me greatly, because far too many people are paying irreparable, terrible prices for the maintenance of that situation.

 

[LuisDantas]

Don't think we go anywhere ruminating about the existence of Israel.

Excuse me?

It's a reality that can't be denied, for the own welfare of the palestinian people.

Good luck convincing anyone of that.

The actual suffering of the civilian palestinian anguishes me, for sure, even more because I have arab blood in my veins. But we can't forget that peace has been offered twice in a generous way, and denied by the palestinian leaders just for this ruminating reasons.

Uh, what are you talking about? I have no idea.

 

[beenie]

Because there was a war and one side suffered a humiliating defeat. But the task at hand is to stop the terrorist attacks by Hamas which threaten Israelis and Palestinians alike.

Incessant terrorism is bad. Storing rockets in hospitals, schools, and mosques is bad. Launching rockets from population centers is bad. Rejecting one ceasefire is bad. Violating a second is bad.

Hamas is scum. They do a disservice to the Palestinian people.

Stop the terrorism and the total disregard of the Palestinian people. Then we talk.

Sweet Mother of GOD, Jay! I see the elephant in the room too!

I'm not for one second denying or dismissing the frustration of the Palestinian people; I cannot imagine having to base my livelihood on the moods of Hamas. However, for people to claim that Hamas and its pundits are blameless is foolish and plain stupid.

 

[jewscout]

Many of the Jewish People seem to, for reasons apparently so far beyond my understanding. Maybe you can help me understand them?

I can give you my answer, but i'd be curious what their responses were when you asked why they feel that way.

It would? Then those people telling me that Israel is just such a secular state with Arabs and Jews are mistaken or lying?

Also, why would that be a bad thing exactly? Is Israel unprepared to deal with secularism? Or what?

excuse me, what I meant to say was a secular nation that didn't identify as a Jewish one.

Was it fueled by the Jewish authorities to a comparable extent to that which we have seen since Israel's inauguration? Or particularly of today's, when it is pretty much a plain and acknowledge fact that Israel thinks little of subscribing to terrorist tactics and claiming that it needs those to survive?

so it is your view that the end of Zionism would bring an end to hatred and violence toward jews world wide? that somehow it was better for jews prior to the Zionist movement?

I truly don't know whether I should ask you to convince me of your perspective or to not even bother. Between you and me someone is committing some serious mistake of evaluating the situation.

I don't expect you to be convinced of anything. It has become my experience that in debates regarding the Israel/Arab conflict neither side will ever "convince" the other, which is why I have tended to stay away from threads like this, or at least not get actively involved in the debate.

reply or don't, but in the end (to answer your first question)...I think it comes down down to the simple fact that when it comes to protecting my people, and specifically my family...

I don't trust the rest of the world

and times like this only refocus my desire to return my family to Israel.

 

[melk]

I'm not good on debating, but i'll try to clarify my post.

Excuse me?

Trying to treat the palestinian-israeli conflict on emotional basis, won't help. The very existence of Israel usually awakes non rational reactions in both sides. For the palestians, for instance, it is a trial not to get beaten by the emotions of defeat that it represents.

Good luck convincing anyone of that.

Do you really think it is better for the palestinians to persist on denying the existence of Israel?

Uh, what are you talking about? I have no idea.

I'm talking abou the attempts for peace made by the israeli prime ministers Ehud Barak and Ariel Sharon, recently. Peace was not attained because of unreasonable demands.

And you know what? I think this situation is also a trial for the jews: as the strong guy of the story, they have to learn to interact with the other side with generosity and without opression, not giving more reasons for the bad feelings of the palestinians to arise.

 

[Godobeyer]

The thing is, Israel has overwhelming military superiority. If they intended to indiscriminately kill anyone in their path, don't you think the civilian death toll would be much, much higher?

Hamas tells Gazans to ignore IDF's call to leave border area | The Times of Israel

Hamas tells Gaza residents to ignore IDF warnings - Israel News, Ynetnews

[youtube]UXZEzbT0H1s[/youtube]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXZEzbT0H1s

Hamas tells Gazans !!!! you used Isreali link !!!!!

using Israeli sites to tell lies about Hamas, that's shameful action .

 

[Godobeyer]

It shows.

How do you feel about Iraq under Sadam Hussein or Nouri al-Maliki, Syria under Bashar al-Assad, Saudi Arabia under Abdullah ibn Abdilazīz, Yemen under Abd Rabbuh Mansur Hadi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, Iran under Ayatollah Khamenei, … ?

And what do you think Khaled Mashal and Mashal, whose genocidal ideology you seem so willing to condone?

that's another evil statement .
so we are bad with we each other , our intern problems becomes a green light (justification) to elimenate us ?!!!!

I guess you always skip this :
Gaza civilians under Israeli bombs ,

 

[Shadow Wolf]

As Golda said:
"Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us."

Seems like this gutter consciousness of Israel's enemies will never change.

It can just as easily be said the gutter consciousness of Palestine's enemies will never change. The hands of both Israel and Palestine are dripping with blood.

So, why not try and eliminate on nullify the source of the problem, which seem to be Hamas. Then see what happens, vice making an assumption that may not be accurate.

So, Hamas goes, Palestine is still heavily oppressed, and then what? The Palestine state does retaliate with violence, but the Palestinian people face social and economic marginalization at the hands of the Israel government.

Hello? Hamas, the palestinian elected government took credit for the death of the teens.

They also glorified the murderers.

The big difference is that the palestinians glorify their mass murderers and name streets after them. On the other hand Israel condemns acts of Israeli's who kill arab civilians intentionally.

If Israel condemns it, then why is it commonplace? And just because elected officials tend to be staunchly ethnocentric and stupid doesn't mean the entire population is. Common Israelis suffer, common Palestinians suffer, both at the hands of the "shoot-first" governments who pander fear and bring death and destruction upon their people.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Sweet Mother of GOD, Jay! I see the elephant in the room too!

The real problem, my sweet friend, is that there are too many elephants in the room and, as a result, the innocent get trampled. I will never lose my hatred for Hamas nor my love for Israel, but none of that blinds me to that fact that this conflict was triggered by Netanyahu and I can not and will not forgive the current government for that fact. Salaam ...

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I guess you always skip this :
Gaza civilians under Israeli bombs ,

I never skip that. Never.

 

[beenie]

The real problem, my sweet friend, is that there are too many elephants in the room and, as a result, the innocent get trampled. I will never lose my hatred for Hamas nor my love for Israel, but none of that blinds me to that fact that this conflict was triggered by Netanyahu and I can not and will not forgive the current government for that fact. Salaam ...

L'Shalom my friend. I hear you loud and clear and I agree with you.

 

[Godobeyer]

The real problem, my sweet friend, is that there are too many elephants in the room and, as a result, the innocent get trampled. I will never lose my hatred for Hamas nor my love for Israel, but none of that blinds me to that fact that this conflict was triggered by Netanyahu and I can not and will not forgive the current government for that fact. Salaam ...

I watched the speech of Ismael Haniya today , he said " that Gaza is under seige for 8 years , so this must stop .and IF there was justice in the UN , Netanyahu and his crew should judge for their crimes in Gaza"

 

[ametist]

My other concern is this..lets say it really had to be that but attack happened in ramadan. Holy month for muslims everywhere. It really hurts muslims everwhere. Doesnt israel care about what all those people think or is it some sort of pleasure to create discomfort, hatred and or even attract religious extremism? What kind of advisors do they have before taking an action.does israel have to teach its name that way to new generations in every 5 years? In holy ramadan. It is more than weird.wait for land attack at least after all things clear up a bit after all you are safe under a billon dollar defense system.shouldnt israel financially backed up by other countries be respectful to those muslims in those countries who pay their taxes at least? What kind of advisors do they have? I really mean it by the way.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I watched the speech of Ismael Haniya today , he said " that Gaza is under seige for 8 years , so this must stop .and IF there was justice in the UN , Netanyahu and his crew should judge for their crimes in Gaza"

Therefore? Did you think Ismael Haniya would be talking about Tupperware?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

My other concern is this..lets say it really had to be that but attack happened in ramadan. Holy month for muslims everywhere. It really hurts muslims everwhere. Doesnt israel care about what all those people think or is it some sort of pleasure to create discomfort, hatred and or even attract religious extremism? What kind of advisors do they have before taking an action.does israel have to teach its name that way to new generations in every 5 years? In holy ramadan. It is more than weird.wait for land attack at least after all things clear up a bit after all you are safe under a billon dollar defense system.shouldnt israel financially backed up by other countries be respectful to those muslims in those countries who pay their taxes at least? What kind of advisors do they have? I really mean it by the way.

What the hell are you talking about?

 

[ametist]

Therefore? Did you think Ismael Haniya would be talking about Tupperware?

Tupperware it is great to have you with sense of humour. I wasnt expecting to laugh under this heading. Thanks. It is great to laugh and have people laughing. May we all be peaceful with laughters on our faces.

 

[ametist]

What the hell are you talking about?

Oh, sorry. I just noticed your post. I was laughing hard at tupperware joke. i still do.
Anyway. I read and it was clear to me again. So you have question?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Oh, sorry. I just noticed your post. I was laughing hard at tupperware joke. i still do.
Anyway. I read and it was clear to me again. So you have question?

None that are within the guidelines.

 

[CMike]

I watched the speech of Ismael Haniya today , he said " that Gaza is under seige for 8 years , so this must stop .and IF there was justice in the UN , Netanyahu and his crew should judge for their crimes in Gaza"

Rather rediculous since Israel completely withdrew from Gaza.