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Behind the killing of 8 Gazan family members

sandandfoam

Veteran Member
No amount of double-talk about Israel as a "western colonial power" or "Zionist nationalist occupiers" or whatever similar crap will change the fact that Israel is being judged and condemned uniquely because it is a Jewish country, and there will always be plenty of people who are happy for an excuse to hate Jews. The fact that they can now do so under the mask of humanistic concern for those who are all too happy to claim the mantle of helpless victim is just icing on the cake to such individuals. But it's the same old anti-Semitism under a different set of clothes. End of story.

I'm not sure that's either fair or true Levite. It seems to me that Haaretz offers a critical perspective from within Israel that is not anti Jewish or anti Israeli.

For my part I don't think that one has to be anti Israeli to sympathize with Palestinian civilians suffering because of IDF attacks. It seems to me that there are plenty of Israeli people who hold this view.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
No amount of double-talk about Israel as a "western colonial power" or "Zionist nationalist occupiers" or whatever similar crap will change the fact that Israel is being judged and condemned uniquely because it is a Jewish country, and there will always be plenty of people who are happy for an excuse to hate Jews. The fact that they can now do so under the mask of humanistic concern for those who are all too happy to claim the mantle of helpless victim is just icing on the cake to such individuals. But it's the same old anti-Semitism under a different set of clothes. End of story.

The transparent and egregiously antisemitic double standard applied by many of our enemies deserves to be exposed for what it is. But their antisemitism should not be used to rationalize the possible war crimes addressed above. Re-quoting the Haaretz article above:
What would Israel say about an attack on the civilian residence of an IDF battalion commander, killing the civilians living there? If such an act is illegal, then so it what is being done in Gaza. That is, unless Israel can prove that each of these buildings was making an effective contribution to the Hamas military effort at the time it was attacked. In this context, it bears noting that the issuing of a warning to civilians living in the building (which, based on the reports, has only been done some of the time) does not relieve the army of responsibility. Not just because the warning time is short and not always long enough for the occupants to vacate the house, and not just because, often, the civilians have nowhere to run to – but because it does not alter the fact that this is a civilian target that shouldn’t be attacked to begin with.
And, yes, it should not be forgotten that while the IDF is calling on these civilians to flee the kill zone, Hamas scum are encouraging the same civilians to stay in place, thereby providing it with yet another "anti-zionist" photo-op.
 

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
commit genocide on Palestinians

You know if that was the goal they'd be all dead by now.

The fact remains that the whole conflict is a low casualty conflict.
During this Operation Israel made thousands of air strikes and yet "only"(inb4 someone doesnt understand it) some 150 people died.

Thats clearly not the intent to murder so many people. If that would be their goal it would be an utter failure.
 
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Curious_Cat

Curious_Athiest
As Golda said:
"Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us."

So in other words we will kill all their children..till theres none left. Who wouldnt resist an occupation. Palestinians have every right to fight for their cause which is just. Its weird how one ethnic genocide justifies another.

Im going to canberra to protest infront of the Parliamant house.

These warnings the Israelis give are either non-existant or so late that the poor palestinians barely make it out of thier buildings.

Where is the worlds conscience? When will this occupation end. Im with the palestinians. More rockets! eye for an eye.

As my favourite rapper Ikon the Hologram put it:

face the truth, you're too dumb
If retaliation comes, yo, then **** it it just comes

GO HAMAS GO FATEH.. UNITE!!
 

CynthiaCypher

Well-Known Member
These warnings the Israelis give are either non-existant or so late that the poor palestinians barely make it out of thier buildings.

I don't think the warnings exist at all. I think the whole "we are warning them" thing is nothing but propaganda to appease the conscience of their apologists and supporters. I don't for one minute believe that the victims of these murderers are given fair warning. Not for one minute.
 

Smart_Guy

...
Premium Member
You know if that was the goal they'd be all dead by now.

We can't be sure about that. There could be political reasons stopping them from doing it, like if all Palestinians are gone, some other country could bomb them without fear of hurting Palestinians because they are not there any more.

The above however is just a possible assumption just as anyone else could bring other assumptions in favor or against either side of the equation, and I could be wrong about it. I implied the possibility that Israel might not really want to do that, and I hope they really don't.

I'm trying to be neutral and think rationally here. I want this needless bloodshed to stop.
 

Curious_Cat

Curious_Athiest
You know if that was the goal they'd be all dead by now.

I find that disturbing, If someone said the same thing about Jews it would be "anti-semetic" and here you are acting so proud about being inhumane.

The fact remains that the whole conflict is a low casualty conflict.
During this Operation Israel made thousands of air strikes and yet "only"(inb4 someone doesnt understand it) some 150 people died.

What if one of the 150 was you or your family?, would it still be low casualty, sad how little you value human life.

Thats clearly not the intent to murder so many people. If that would be their goal it would be an utter failure.

Just like hitlers holocaust was an utter failure. His goal wasnt met was it? I hate these double standards, and how its okay for Jews to express em.
 

CMike

Well-Known Member
I must admit, I am deeply puzzled by the outrage that some people apparently have for this conflict being "unbalanced." "Unbalanced" because Israel has suffered no direct casualties of rocket attack so far, whereas there have been over a hundred Palestinian casualties of Israeli bombing.

However, Israel appears to have avoided casualties largely because of the Iron Dome defensive weapon system, which has a ninety-plus percent success rate in taking out missiles inbound to populated areas, and because the Israeli government has, at tremendous expense, subsidized every single home built having a bomb shelter room, and nearly every other building or complex having a readily accessible bomb shelter within or in an adjoining space.

Whereas during their leadership of Gaza, Hamas has not turned its (admittedly much more limited) resources toward either defensive capabilties or providing shelters to its populace, but instead has done its best to import or build as many offensive rockets as it can. And it now fires those rockets from within populated civilian areas, and urges its citizens to become human shields to protect those weapons and the terrorists who fire them, apparently to maximize carnage so as to provoke outrage and sympathy for their cause in the international community.

I am at a loss to understand why Israel should be condemned for being unfair for utilizing defenses to protect its citizens simply because Hamas has not even tried to provide those under its rule with similar defenses, or are using those under its rule as human shields to protect their weapons and fighters.

No other country in the world would tolerate a thousand rockets in a week being shot into their country, regardless of how successful their defenses might be. No other country in the world, if its retaliation for such attacks included not only warning leaflets and radio broadcasts to the civilian populace, but direct phone calls and warning shots with unarmed missiles prior to live fire, would be urged to exercise more restraint or be called murderers.

No amount of double-talk about Israel as a "western colonial power" or "Zionist nationalist occupiers" or whatever similar crap will change the fact that Israel is being judged and condemned uniquely because it is a Jewish country, and there will always be plenty of people who are happy for an excuse to hate Jews. The fact that they can now do so under the mask of humanistic concern for those who are all too happy to claim the mantle of helpless victim is just icing on the cake to such individuals. But it's the same old anti-Semitism under a different set of clothes. End of story.

Spot on.

The sheer audacity is mind blowing.

Here the Hamas government shoots thousands of missiles into Israel's populated cities targeting civilians.

They know that Israel will have to respond to protect it's citizens.

They intentionally use their own civilians as human shields. They put them around their own weapons in order to protect them.

They are counting on the morality of Israel.

Then if one of these civilians are killed because Hamas used them as a human shield it's all Israel's fault.

As if any country would or should tolerate terrorists shooting over a thousand rockets into their cities.

Hamas has been committing two war crimes:

1) Shooting missiles into populated cities targeting civilians

2) Using their own civilians as human shields

Where is the outrage against this?

Utterly amazing.:facepalm:
 

CMike

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure that's either fair or true Levite. It seems to me that Haaretz offers a critical perspective from within Israel that is not anti Jewish or anti Israeli.

For my part I don't think that one has to be anti Israeli to sympathize with Palestinian civilians suffering because of IDF attacks. It seems to me that there are plenty of Israeli people who hold this view.
Haaretz is a leftist Israeli newspaper.

Unlike the arab countries, Israel is a democracy. Therefore, it has newspaper all across the political spectrum.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I don't think the warnings exist at all. I think the whole "we are warning them" thing is nothing but propaganda to appease the conscience of their apologists and supporters. I don't for one minute believe that the victims of these murderers are given fair warning. Not for one minute.

That's nice. Do you have actual evidence the warnings are "nothing but propaganda" or is this once again yet another of your infallible pronouncements from on high?
 

xkatz

Well-Known Member
I don't think the warnings exist at all. I think the whole "we are warning them" thing is nothing but propaganda to appease the conscience of their apologists and supporters. I don't for one minute believe that the victims of these murderers are given fair warning. Not for one minute.

Yes and Jews did WTC.

evil-jew.jpg
 

Curious_Cat

Curious_Athiest
That's nice. Do you have actual evidence the warnings are "nothing but propaganda" or is this once again yet another of your infallible pronouncements from on high?

I have heard first hand accounts from palestinian refugees. They say if they warn us they give us 5 mins if any warning. Do you think 5 mins is enough time to get children elderly and possessions down from say the 3rd floor of a building. Ive met way too many palestinians whose families and homes have been torn apart. The first hand accounts of what happens there is horrible.

Im gonna start an anti-Israel lobby here. Will protest outside the parliamant everyday. Wake up Australia..FREE FREE PALESTINE FREE FREE PALESTINE.

END THE GENOCIDE IN GAZA!
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Im gonna start an anti-Israel lobby here. Will protest outside the parliamant everyday. Wake up Australia..FREE FREE PALESTINE FREE FREE PALESTINE.

END THE GENOCIDE IN GAZA!

That will be very helpful. There isn't enough one-sidedness in this mess already.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I have heard first hand accounts from palestinian refugees. They say if they warn us they give us 5 mins if any warning. Do you think 5 mins is enough time to get children elderly and possessions down from say the 3rd floor of a building. Ive met way too many palestinians whose families and homes have been torn apart. The first hand accounts of what happens there is horrible.

If that's the case, it's seriously wrong.
 
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