Being "transgender" is a form of gender stereotyping.

[1137]

Apparently science denial isn't just for YECs.

Who the **** is denying science? Jesus Christ how hilarious and sad. I've reported you for trolling.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Who the **** is denying science? Jesus Christ how hilarious and sad. I've reported you for trolling.

You are. You have repeatedly insisted things such as concerns for people who transition because their friends think they should, which, though a concern, is to ignore the science behind the Standards of Care, which works to prevent such things. You keep saying there needs to be something better, even though studies were posted in this thread showing that there have been improvements, and you haven't even said how things should work, to make them better, but you keep comparing letting someone transition to letting a schizophrenic do what the voices tell them to do, or claiming you are a "space alien," even though science does not support your claims. You keep mentioning transition makes 10% of those who transition suicidal, even though science shows that those who are suicidal have mood disorders. You keep saying there needs to be a better treatment, but, according to science, which has been posted on this thread, over 80%, as high as over 90% of those who transition show improvements in their quality of life.
Your "something else" isn't based in science. Science has shown the best treatment is to let those experiencing gender dysphoria live as their identified gender, and to use medical intervention when needed. But you dismiss my quoting clinicians who work with those who have gender dysphoria as my "torture support friends."
You have been ignoring science throughout this entire thread.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

An example of how things have gotten better: It used to be that to transition you had to be heterosexual (meaning a MtF had to be attracted to men), and you had to take up an occupation that is traditionally associated with your identified gender. That was done away with. It used to be there was no Standards of Care, and before that time there was much more regret and failed transitions. But the SoC was made to act as a filter.
I can only assume you are unaware you have to be in therapy throughout the entire transition, you have to go through with what is known as the "real life test/experience" for no less than one year before surgery can be performed, that patients are rigorously questioned over just about every aspect of their lives, and a clinician has to rule out a number of disorders and other conditions before a diagnosis of gender dysphoria can be applied and hormone therapy, or any surgeries, can happen. It is simply impossible for anyone to do it on a whim, or because a guy has friends who call him girly. Not unless that person lies to their therapist and is good at keeping their stories straight.

 

[1137]

You want me to just pull something out of my *** and claim to crusade for science.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You want me to just pull something out of my *** and claim to crusade for science.

Making an effort to try and understand would be a good start. Gender dysphoria is clearly nothing like schizophrenia or any psychotic disorder - it shows you have very little understanding of it to say it is.

 

[kittyqueen]

Right, there's no disorder with no dysfunction. But look at the life of my transgender friend. Major depression, dressing differently earns bullying so low self-esteem, self loathing, self harm... Gender dysphoria can be and often is a "disorder". The fact that it's comorbid only adds to this in that it often directly leads to other dysfunction. Apparently, which I learned researching for this thread earlier after it became about gender transition instead of the stereotypes it can bring up, transition is not as successful as I'd like and other disorders won't just vanish

So... Just because your transgender friend is unable to deal with the bullying you think that nobody should be able to transition? The solution to this problem is not a different treatment, it's making trans people become more socially accepted. Btw, your friend is either thinking they will get respect for the gender they identify with or they're not trans.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The solution to this problem is not a different treatment, it's making trans people become more socially accepted.

That point is mentioned in the Standards of Care. But, despite the social difficulties, it also mentions numerous studies that show transitioning is a very successful treatment. From the SoC:
Treatment is individualized: What helps one person alleviate gender dysphoria might be very different from what helps another person. This process may or may not involve a change in gender expression or body modifications. Medical treatment options include, for example, feminization or masculinization of the body through hormone therapy and/or surgery, which are effective in alleviating gender dysphoria and are medically necessary for many people. Gender identities and expressions are diverse, and hormones and surgery are just two of many options available to assist people with achieving comfort with self and identity. [emphasis mine]
...
This approach was extensively evaluated and proved to be highly effective. Satisfaction rates across studies ranged from 87% of MtF patients to 97% of FtM patients (Green & Fleming, 1990), and regrets were extremely rare (1–1.5% of MtF patients and <1% of FtM patients; Pfäfflin, 1993). Indeed, hormone therapy and surgery have been found to be medically necessary to alleviate gender dysphoria in many people (American Medical Association, 2008; Anton, 2009; World Professional Association for Transgender Health, 2008).

 

[Penumbra]

Oh so transgenders shouldn't be allowed to live with it, they simply need to have a transition.

What are you talking about?

Nobody forces a transgender person to transition. Nobody disallows them to live with it if that's what they decide to do. Some of them do, some of them don't.

 

[dust1n]

Look at it this way: we live in a world where placebos without deception are becoming supplements to medications and used for migraines as well as IBS. We have a long way to go.

I'm not even sure what you mean. Should I be preventing people from getting the best known efficient option, or hold out for the best future possible option?

Also, a placebo without deception? Wouldn't that make it not a placebo?

 

[1137]

I'm not even sure what you mean. Should I be preventing people from getting the best known efficient option, or hold out for the best future possible option?

Also, a placebo without deception? Wouldn't that make it not a placebo?

A placebo is a sugar pill.

 

[dgirl1986]

You might find it worth researching this topic to its full extent and listening to personal accounts from transgender individuals. Especially those who have considered themselves to be the gender they were not born as from an extremely young age.

 

[1137]

You might find it worth researching this topic to its full extent and listening to personal accounts from transgender individuals. Especially those who have considered themselves to be the gender they were not born as from an extremely young age.

Who is this directed to?

 

[1137]

Making an effort to try and understand would be a good start. Gender dysphoria is clearly nothing like schizophrenia or any psychotic disorder - it shows you have very little understanding of it to say it is.

Right, what's the point of all that education on top of experience anyways?

 

[dgirl1986]

Who is this directed to?

OP

 

[1137]

OP

The one who's worked with transgender individuals and has the background in psychology? Thanks for reading the actual thread...

 

[dgirl1986]

The one who's worked with transgender individuals and has the background in psychology? Thanks for reading the actual thread...

I read the original post. You can't expect me to read through 12 pages of comments.

Also, you can find ministers who have worked with transgender and/or gay people who have psychology who still do not understand.

 

[1137]

I read the original post. You can't expect me to read through 12 pages of comments.

Also, you can find ministers who have worked with transgender and/or gay people who have psychology who still do not understand.

You're getting your threads mixed dear.

 

[dgirl1986]

You're getting your threads mixed dear.

No I was making a point. Just because someone has a background in psychology and worked with transgender people does not mean they accept any of the facts

 

[1137]

No I was making a point. Just because someone has a background in psychology and worked with transgender people does not mean they accept any of the facts

What's your point? Where has a single fact been denied? There hasn't been. You jump in here incapable of even glancing over the thread and and expect us to reject all areas of scientific experience and practice because... ministers ignore psychological facts? Wut?

 

[dgirl1986]

Let me say this - Transgender people do not buy into stereotypes. That was the point in my first post here. They fall into gender roles that are strong in our cultures. I would go as far to say that people who dress a certain way do so because it is what they feel most comfortable in, and what feels more natural to them. Similar to how some women - gay and straight - feel more comfortable in "masculine" clothing. Transitioning however is a bit different from that for these individuals.

My transgender friend likened wanting to physically have her gender reassigned is kind of like how you would feel if you found a penis had grown on your elbow.

The lines become more blurred the more we come to understand gender identities in line with our social constructs. I heard an account of a trans man who still has his womanly parts and started hormone replacements but is fine with her parts. It is a bit of a mix. It took her a long time to find other people who were fine with her looking, talking, walking and acting like a man but having the private parts of a woman.

I honestly think that if men and women could wear the same things, do themselves up the same and do the same things without the gender role thing...people would not be so concerned with gender identity and/or sexualities.

Hope that makes sense. I am ADDing bad today.