Being "transgender" is a form of gender stereotyping.

[dust1n]

The mere existence of psychology, the mere treatment of disorders throughout the past decades, is all the evidence necessary.

The mere existence of psychology and the mere treatment of disorders is not itself proof or evidence for anything in particular.

If you want therapists who encourage and egg on disorders than I simply don't know what to say.

I don't want that. But I don't want therapists who, in general, have no empirical basis for their claim and or take a combative approach with people who supposedly have a mental disorder.


By the way, have you passed it on yet?

If you discredit it I'd love to pass it on.

 

[dust1n]

Actually if you try a bit harder I've accepted the benefits of transition numerous times, you're simply pissed that I went and said we need something better (for some reason). Stop wasting my time.

That something better being?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't want that. But I don't want therapists who, in general, have no empirical basis for their claim and or take a combative approach with people who supposedly have a mental disorder.

The funny thing about considering gender dysphoria a mental disorder is many clinicians do not consider it a mental disorder. They will say it's great that it's classified as one because that opens up avenues to help with the various procedures, which helps people to obtain that help, but they do not believe that gender dysphoria is itself a mental disorder.

 

[dust1n]

The funny thing about considering gender dysphoria a mental disorder is many clinicians do not consider it a mental disorder. They will say it's great that it's classified as one because that opens up avenues to help with the various procedures, which helps people to obtain that help, but they do not believe that gender dysphoria is itself a mental disorder.

At the end of day, I wouldn't. I thought the premise of the OP was interesting, in the ways we perceive genders, and what they actually are. For instance, I still find it interesting that a someone who is isn't in transitioning has a notion of what the opposite gender is that they are trying to emulate.

But at the end of the day, I don't really know. I'd just expect professionals to be professional in their presentation of arguments and in their demeanor.

 

[1137]

Yeah, because quoting and replying to them means I haven't read them, LOL!

Obviously you don't understand that you can read something an not take in even the slightest thred of conscious info. Seriously, don't dabble, it's dangerous for reasons like this.

 

[1137]

The funny thing about considering gender dysphoria a mental disorder is many clinicians do not consider it a mental disorder. They will say it's great that it's classified as one because that opens up avenues to help with the various procedures, which helps people to obtain that help, but they do not believe that gender dysphoria is itself a mental disorder.

Obviously you have no idea how disorders are defined either, as is your disposition as a dabbler to all psychological concepts thus far. Just stop for god's sake.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Obviously you don't understand that you can read something an not take in even the slightest thred of conscious info. Seriously, don't dabble, it's dangerous for reasons like this.

I have been taking it in. You say transsexuals are "pretending," that we should "learn how to deal with it," but then you also try to say you accept in some instances and IRL you refer to people as their identified gender. You also seem to think transitioning is inappropriate because of the 10% who commit suicide, even though many transsexuals are suicidal before transitioning, and the 10% that do commit suicide after transitioning frequently have mood disorders.

Obviously you have no idea how disorders are defined either, as is your disposition as a dabbler to all psychological concepts thus far. Just stop for god's sake.

So directly quoting clinicians makes me a dabbler? And, as I have told you, I am not a dabbler. I've had too much schooling and have read too many text books and other books to be a dabbler.
How about you stop being bitter, and stop making yourself look like a fool? Calling me a dabbler, especially over posts that I have used the thoughts and words of professionals and people who treat those with gender dysphoria, makes you look like a damn fool.
And, yes, I do know how disorders are defined.

 

[1137]

So you're arguing over false points I never took that you created in your mind. Gotcha. You want to get on topic let me know. And of course clinicians ****ing believe in disorder, what do you think we're treating?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So you're arguing over false points I never took that you created in your mind.

I haven't arguing points you haven't taken. I am arguing ones that you have.

You want to get on topic let me know.

I never went off topic.

And of course clinicians ****ing believe in disorder, what do you think we're treating?

Now you are the one who isn't taking in what I said. It is a fact that many clinicians do not believe gender dysphoria to be a mental disorder in and of itself.

 

[1137]

I'd love to see your source, especially since the definition of disorders given by your torture supporting friends is

"A mental disorder is a syndrome characterized by clinically significant disturbance in an individual's cognition,emotion regulation, or behavior that reflects a dysfunction in the psychological, biological, or developmental processes underlying mental functioning. Mental disorders are usually associated with significant distress in social, occupational, or other important activities. An expectable or culturally approved response to a common stressor or loss, such as the death of a loved one, is not a mental disorder. Socially deviant behavior (e.g., political,religious, or sexual) and conflicts that are primarily between the individual and society are not mental disorders unless the deviance or conflict results from a dysfunction in the individual, as described above."

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'd love to see your source, especially since the definition of disorders given by your torture supporting friends is

This is why I keep saying you have a funny way of saying it, because with you it's "pretending," or we should just "learn to live with it," and now it's "torture supporting friends." But you claim you are accepting?
Why can't you understand that your approach is torturous? I'd rather be dead than being stuck having to live as a guy.
And, for your information, my sources include therapists I have seen who specialize in issues relating to sex, gender, and sexuality.
Is homosexuality a disorder? Of course not. But indeed many homosexuals do struggle with their orientation, they do face social impairments, they do get depressed, and they do face certain dysfunctions. However, once they accept that they are homosexual and go on living their lives, as they should, all of the "signs" of a disorder go away. And guess what? It's the same with gender dysphoria. We accept ourselves, we go on living our lives as we should, and the "signs" of a disorder go away. That is why many clinicians do not consider gender dysphoria a mental disorder. And because it has nothing to do with our mental features, but are entirely bodily related, many clinicians do not consider it a mental disorder.

 

[dust1n]

I'd love to see your source, especially since the definition of disorders given by your torture supporting friends is

In the upcoming fifth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), people whose gender at birth is contrary to the one they identify with will be diagnosed with gender dysphoria. This diagnosis is a revision of DSM-IV’s criteria for gender identity disorder and is intended to better characterize the experiences of affected children, adolescents, and adults.

Respecting the Patient, Ensuring Access to Care DSM not only determines how mental disorders are defined and diagnosed, it also impacts how people see themselves and how we see each other. While diagnostic terms facilitate clinical care and access to insurance coverage that supports mental health, these terms can also have a stigmatizing effect. DSM-5 aims to avoid stigma and ensure clinical care for individuals who see and feel themselves to be a different gender than their assigned gender. It replaces the diagnostic name “gender identity disorder” with “gender dysphoria,” as well as makes other important clarifications in the criteria. It is important to note that gender nonconformity is not in itself a mental disorder. The critical element of gender dysphoria is the presence of clinically significant distress associated with the condition.

Characteristics of the Condition For a person to be diagnosed with gender dysphoria, there must be a marked difference between the individual’s expressed/experienced gender and the gender others would assign him or her, and it must continue for at least six months. In children, the desire to be of the other gender must be present and verbalized. This condition causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning. Gender dysphoria is manifested in a variety of ways, including strong desires to be treated as the other gender or to be rid of one’s sex characteristics, or a strong conviction that one has feelings and reactions typical of the other gender. The DSM-5 diagnosis adds a post-transition specifier for people who are living full-time as the desired gender (with or without legal sanction of the gender change). This ensures treatment access for individuals who continue to undergo hormone therapy, related surgery, or psychotherapy or counseling to support their gender transition. Gender dysphoria will have its own chapter in DSM-5 and will be separated from Sexual Dysfunctions and Paraphilic Disorders.

http://www.dsm5.org/documents/gender dysphoria fact sheet.pdf

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Here is the WPATH Standards of Care, which is the established guidelines for treatment involving people who are transgender, transsexual, and gender non-conforming. (It is a rather hefty read at 120 pages)
http://www.wpath.org/uploaded_files/140/files/Standards of Care, V7 Full Book.pdf
It even has a section about clinical outcomes, which shows things have gotten better and are continuing to improve:
Since the Standards of Care have been in place, there has been a steady increase in patient satisfaction and decrease in dissatisfaction with the outcome of sex reassignment surgery. Studies conducted after
1996 focused on patients who were treated according to the Standards of Care . The findings of Rehman and colleagues (1999) and Krege and colleagues (2001) are typical of this body of work; none of the
patients in these studies regretted having had surgery, and most reported being satisfied with the cosmetic and functional results of the surgery. Even patients who develop severe surgical complications
seldom regret having undergone surgery. Quality of surgical results is one of the best predictors of the overall outcome of sex reassignment (Lawrence, 2003). The vast majority of follow-up studies have
shown an undeniable benefi cial effect of sex reassignment surgery on postoperative outcomes such as subjective well being, cosmesis, and sexual function (De Cuypere et al., 2005; Garaffa, Christopher,
& Ralph, 2010; Klein & Gorzalka, 2009), although the specifi c magnitude of benefi t is uncertain from 108 World Professional Association for Transgender Health The Standards of Care 7TH VERSION
the currently available evidence. One study (Emory, Cole, Avery, Meyer, & Meyer, 2003) even showed improvement in patient income.
...
Overall, studies have been reporting a steady improvement in outcomes as the field becomes more advanced. Outcome research has mainly focused on the outcome of sex reassignment surgery. In current practice there is a range of identity, role, and physical adaptations that could use additional follow-up or outcome research (Institute of Medicine, 2011).

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Since the adoption of the Standards of Care, it has become much harder for people who shouldn't transition to transition, and making it so people who transition "because their friends say they should be a woman" doesn't happen. Again, it's not perfect, but it's not like it was during a study in '79 in which many were not any better or worse off, causing the treatment program at John Hopkins to be closed. Studies today put the satisfactory rate at over 80 and 90%. That doesn't sound like torture to me.

 

[1137]

This is why I keep saying you have a funny way of saying it, because with you it's "pretending," or we should just "learn to live with it," and now it's "torture supporting friends." But you claim you are accepting?
Why can't you understand that your approach is torturous?

I was referencing the APA. Good job proving how skewed your perspective is here.

 

[1137]

In the upcoming fifth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), people whose gender at birth is contrary to the one they identify with will be diagnosed with gender dysphoria. This diagnosis is a revision of DSM-IV’s criteria for gender identity disorder and is intended to better characterize the experiences of affected children, adolescents, and adults.

Respecting the Patient, Ensuring Access to Care DSM not only determines how mental disorders are defined and diagnosed, it also impacts how people see themselves and how we see each other. While diagnostic terms facilitate clinical care and access to insurance coverage that supports mental health, these terms can also have a stigmatizing effect. DSM-5 aims to avoid stigma and ensure clinical care for individuals who see and feel themselves to be a different gender than their assigned gender. It replaces the diagnostic name “gender identity disorder” with “gender dysphoria,” as well as makes other important clarifications in the criteria. It is important to note that gender nonconformity is not in itself a mental disorder. The critical element of gender dysphoria is the presence of clinically significant distress associated with the condition.

Characteristics of the Condition For a person to be diagnosed with gender dysphoria, there must be a marked difference between the individual’s expressed/experienced gender and the gender others would assign him or her, and it must continue for at least six months. In children, the desire to be of the other gender must be present and verbalized. This condition causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning. Gender dysphoria is manifested in a variety of ways, including strong desires to be treated as the other gender or to be rid of one’s sex characteristics, or a strong conviction that one has feelings and reactions typical of the other gender. The DSM-5 diagnosis adds a post-transition specifier for people who are living full-time as the desired gender (with or without legal sanction of the gender change). This ensures treatment access for individuals who continue to undergo hormone therapy, related surgery, or psychotherapy or counseling to support their gender transition. Gender dysphoria will have its own chapter in DSM-5 and will be separated from Sexual Dysfunctions and Paraphilic Disorders.

http://www.dsm5.org/documents/gender dysphoria fact sheet.pdf

You even defined the issues of disorders in this post, and it all but states it's the same thing with a simply different name. The term "disorder" has a lot of negative connotations and the V went to great lengths to be better than previous DSMs. Doesn't change the fact that gender dysphoria is identical to a mental disorder.

I'm finished speaking on this topic except to ensure readers don't accept shadow wolf as a viable psychological source.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm finished speaking on this topic except to ensure readers don't accept shadow wolf as a viable psychological source.

So, you want to make sure people don't accept what I have posted, which comes from viable sources, as viable sources? To not accept what I have to say on the subject, even though I can promise you I have spent far more time researching it than you have?
Actually, I would say you have probably "lost." You keep saying those like me should just learn to live with it, even though I have said that has brought nothing but pain and misery. You call it "torture," even though I have gave my own account, and supported it with research, to demonstrate that my situation has been improving. You say you are a therapist, but you advice is that I should live a hollow and meaningless life that is not the life for me. You even try to dismiss some of my statements, even though they come directly from people who are schooled, graduated, and licensed to practice in areas of sexuality and gender. You've not even bothered to back up your claims, unlike myself and others (such as Dust1n), but yet, you want people to take your word over mine?
And, I find it interesting, you want people to take your word over mine, even though you said you don't think people should transition just because their friends think they act too much like the opposite sex, or they have many characteristics of the opposite sex, even though their are established guidelines to "filter out" such people and stop them from transitioning, and many clinicians do take that as a very serious responsibility.
If anything, you've demonstrated that you probably have not put in much time into researching gender dysphoria and other gender-related issues. The things you have posted make it seem like you have "dabbled" in the issue.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I was referencing the APA. Good job proving how skewed your perspective is here.

You gave nothing more than the APA's definition of a mental disorder, even though, not too many posts ago, you strongly criticized my use invoking the APA, and that definition does not accurately describe the entirety of gender dysphoria (the reason many clinicians do not agree that gender dysphoria is itself a mental disorder).
And you say my view is skewed.

 

[1137]

You gave nothing more than the APA's definition of a mental disorder, even though, not too many posts ago, you strongly criticized my use invoking the APA, and that definition does not accurately describe the entirety of gender dysphoria (the reason many clinicians do not agree that gender dysphoria is itself a mental disorder).
And you say my view is skewed.

Wow, I used it because you used it yourself. You know what? You're doing fine discrediting yourself, I'm going to gain so self respect and bail.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Wow, I used it because you used it yourself. You know what? You're doing fine discrediting yourself, I'm going to gain so self respect and bail.

I'm not the one who dismissed an entire organization and cited that same organization later.