Being "transgender" is a form of gender stereotyping.

[Shadow Wolf]

As I said, 10% is too high. Not sure how you sleep at night, but I should have left the thread dead anyways.

As Dus1n's source mentioned, this is mostly among those who don't actually have gender dysphoria, and those who have other problems such as mood disorders.

Those who display the autogynephilic type
of gender dysphoria (that is, those whose problems
seem to evolve from transvestic fetishism) are more
likely than those with the other types of gender dysphoria to regret sexual reassign-
ment surgery and to have poor outcomes. Finally, patients with serious pretreatment
psychological disturbances (for example, a personality disorder) are particularly likely
to regret the surgery and are more likely than others to later attempt suicide.

It is inaccurate and dishonest to say that 10% comes solely from transitioning. And, actually, NO WHERE have I said it's alright. Rather, you were the one who came straight out and said that I said I'm ok with it.
Shame on you!

 

[Penumbra]

So apparently I hold a "surprising" position in this, but I don't understand the recent transgender movements.

Just the recent movements, or transgender people in general?

Transgender people, including people that take steps to transition their body or hormones, have existed for thousands of years in cultures all over the world.

In case one doesn't know, being transgender would essentially be like an individual who is physically/biologically a woman having "masculine" mental state and so considering themselves a male. See the problem? Transgender individuals buy right in and add to gender stereotyping by deciding they can't feel how they do as the sex they are. Women can have certain psychological mindsets because they're too masculine and vise versa.

Whether we are male or female is determined by physical and biological factors, which is the entire point of the definitions. Beyond that, gender equality says let people be who they are.

I agree in letting people be who they are.

Transgender movements, on the other hand, say men and women are only allowed to feel certain ways.

Source?

There are butch trans women and femme trans men. Gender identity and gender expression are not the same thing. A big component for transgender people that transition is that they often experience gender-related body dysphoria and so they take steps to alter their bodies to fix that problem. Gender roles are not the same thing as that.

I'm not exactly sure how this differs from simply pretending something is true that isn't, though that could be from lack of experience. Gender is a specific thing based on ones actual biology. If you have male parts and male chromosomes then you are male, and that's ALL it says. So how is pretending otherwise based on how I feel different from asking someone to acknowledge me as a non-human being (I've actually always felt this lol) or to set a place for my imaginary friend?

Brains are sexually dimorphic and most evidence over the last 20 years or so has shown that transgender people have brains that, in many places, more closely match their identified gender than their assigned sex at birth. It's also been observed for like fifty years that therapy is practically useless or even harmful in trying to make a trans person not trans, and that instead hormone reversal therapy has a much higher success rate.

So, I agree that gender is a specific thing based on one's body, at least in part. And the body includes the brain. If they've got a brain that doesn't match the hormones that pump through it or they have a brain that has a body map that doesn't match up with the body configuration, there are treatments for them.

Great input guys and gals, I'm glad we finally had this talk. However, I want to be a dick for a second.

I have, and I'm not lying, never felt like a human being. I know I am biologically and definitionally, but my mind screams that I am simply different. Not special, just alien. I don't make sense, I never fit in with any groups of people, the way I process information is strange, etc. If I wanted to be considered an alien, the amount of psychotherapy I'd go through is insane, because I simply not an alien no matter how I feel, because emotions don't change fact. How is a man honestly thinking they're a woman any different?

Human brains do physically differentiate between male and female, and not necessarily in a neat binary way. Is there evidence that human brains can differentiate into human and not-human? A trans person that is dysphoric enough to transition can make an evidenced case that their condition is essentially an intersex condition of the brain. Do you have similar evidence for your condition?

Does your identity or body cause you distress, and if so, are there any known conservative treatments for it such as talk therapy? Or is it like trans people where talk therapy is essentially ineffective for it?

Is there a particular hormone that you would like to take that is evidenced to have a high success rate for people with your condition, such as the case for trans people that medically transition?

Do you have a clinical level of insanity? In other words, is it the norm for people that believe they are aliens to be able to go through life successfully as doctors, lawyers, politicians, executives, engineers, nurses, bus operators, or any other job out there, and otherwise be entirely well-adjusted but believe they are aliens throughout their lives, or is that generally not seen? For trans people, their identity as a gender does not typically come with insanity.

Further, I get one "really believes it" and is incapable of not. I'm a psychologist myself, trust me I get it. But I also see people who really believe there are other people in their head, that someone lives in their walls, that their neighbor is a monster, that all their friends hate them, the list of untrue beliefs is infinite. As far as I can tell, transgenderism is the only one we're supposed to ignore / accept.

Pretty much all relevant major professional bodies support physical transition and social acceptance as the treatment for those that desire to do so, including the American Psychological Association, American Psychiatric Association, American Medical Association, the Endocrine Society, Britain's National Health System, Canada's health system, France's health system, etc.

There is no other known treatment that works, most likely because it's primarily neurological rather than psychological. If something is purely psychological (as in, believing a neighbor is a monster when this is demonstrably untrue), then therapy can work to change those untrue beliefs. If something is primarily neurological, it would more likely require medicine or other physical means to address.

It also states that 10% of people with gender dysphoria who go through sex changes become suicidal. 10% might be ok for @Shadow Wolf but it's waaaay too high for me.

a) You'd have to compare that to other sources, such as those studies that indicate that transgender surgery has a lower rate of regret than many other common surgeries, and that in particular, hormone therapy has a very high success rate. In other words, one can find a study for almost anything ("tobacco is totally fine for you!"), but what is important is what the broader consensus of studies indicate.

b) You'd then have to compare suicide rate or depression rate for those that have completed their desired steps of transition vs trans people that desire to transition but are otherwise unable. In other words, if 10% of post-surgical people are suicidal but even more pre-surgical people are suicidal, then that provides a context. All in all, broad surveys show that something like 40% of transgender people have attempted suicide. For transgender youth, acceptance of them for who they identify as appears to massively reduce the suicide rate and other problems.

 

[kittyqueen]

So apparently I hold a "surprising" position in this, but I don't understand the recent transgender movements. In case one doesn't know, being transgender would essentially be like an individual who is physically/biologically a woman having "masculine" mental state and so considering themselves a male. See the problem? Transgender individuals buy right in and add to gender stereotyping by deciding they can't feel how they do as the sex they are. Women can have certain psychological mindsets because they're too masculine and vise versa.

Whether we are male or female is determined by physical and biological factors, which is the entire point of the definitions. Beyond that, gender equality says let people be who they are. Transgender movements, on the other hand, say men and women are only allowed to feel certain ways.

Thoughts?

Also, I understand transgender is kind of an umbrella term. I'm discussing men/women who are fully biologically / physically one sex and want go be another.

What? No man, you got it completely wrong. Transgender people are not men that are way too feminine to be a guy nor women that are too masculine to be a girl. They are people that identify themselves as the opposite sex. There are transwomen that are very masculine, even though they'd rather be seem as women. What makes a male bodied transgender is not the fact that the person thinks they're too feminine, it's the fact that their bodies do not match the person they are inside. I know, it's hard to understand, but trust me, it's important for them to be recognized as the person they are inside and to not let them do it is very cruel and sadistic.

You are forcing someone to feel like they're being forced to hide the person they really are and yes, they need to be treated like the opposite sex. It's their right. To deny that they aren't the gender they're telling you is as bad as (if not worse) than keep on telling a dark coloured person offensive racist jokes and being like "oh, it's just a joke" or treating a woman like an inferior human being just because she happens to be a woman. We're not talking about treating someone because of the way they are, we are talking about treating someone in a way that just have nothing to do with the person they are.

Look, I know how much you wished both sexes were equal, but we are not the same. I've been there and for the sake of the mental health of those people, just wake up and realise that what makes us different is not only our bodies. The way we think, the way we proccess things in our brains is different. What makes a person trans is not how feminine/masculine they are, it's the way they think. A transwoman have the body of a man, but thinks like a woman. A transman have the body of a woman, but thinks like a man.

If gender equality says "let people be who they are", then why won't you let trans people be who they are? They are the gender they say they are, you must let them be who they are.

If you really are pro gender equality, you must let them be who they are and treat them with the respect they truly deserve. To not let a man transition to the woman she really is ain't pro gender equality, you are actually being sexist if you do it. Sexism says that a man must do/act/be like that and can't do this, this, that... So, you are being sexist if you say that a person born with a penis can't be a woman. I honestly don't get why those feminists are so anti-trans, it doesn't make any sense! Say that a person with boobs and vagina can't be a man doesn't make you any different from the sexist people. You are against them! You can't think like them! You can't say that a person with a vagina can't be a man like them! You can't.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Look, I know how much you wished both sexes were equal, but we are not the same. I've been there and for the sake of the mental health of those people, just wake up and realise that what makes us different is not only our bodies. The way we think, the way we proccess things in our brains is different. What makes a person trans is not how feminine/masculine they are, it's the way they think. A transwoman have the body of a man, but thinks like a woman. A transman have the body of a woman, but thinks like a man.

Too bad there isn't a way to make people like him feel even just a fraction of the torment and anguish we (I use "we" because you use "us," correct me if I am wrong) go through. If they could only understand what it is to hate looking at yourself in the mirror, to feel lonely just because you have to be someone you're not around others, and to always have something that is constantly eating away at you. If they could only experience just a small part of agony, they wouldn't doubt.

 

[kittyqueen]

Too bad there isn't a way to make people like him feel even just a fraction of the torment and anguish we (I use "we" because you use "us," correct me if I am wrong) go through. If they could only understand what it is to hate looking at yourself in the mirror, to feel lonely just because you have to be someone you're not around others, and to always have something that is constantly eating away at you. If they could only experience just a small part of agony, they wouldn't doubt.

Sorry, I just had to say that. I'm not trans, but I got able to understand how it might feel by researching and having an open mind. I also tried to experiment being the opposite sex for awhile. It was really impossible for me to deny that transgender people do exist and that the treatment many trans people receive is inhumane. It's hard to not try doing something about it.

 

[1137]

What? No man, you got it completely wrong. Transgender people are not men that are way too feminine to be a guy nor women that are too masculine to be a girl. They are people that identify themselves as the opposite sex. There are transwomen that are very masculine, even though they'd rather be seem as women. What makes a male bodied transgender is not the fact that the person thinks they're too feminine, it's the fact that their bodies do not match the person they are inside. I know, it's hard to understand, but trust me, it's important for them to be recognized as the person they are inside and to not let them do it is very cruel and sadistic.

Gender disphoria is a mental disorder (in the clinical sense) based around someone feeling the opposite sex, you are correct. I am not the one who believes that being feminine makes you actually a woman or anything, that's actually what I was making a point against. It's people who, because their friends tell them they are feminine, they believe they have gender disorder. It's not hard to understand, it's actually a more easily understood disorder.

You are forcing someone to feel like they're being forced to hide the person they really are and yes, they need to be treated like the opposite sex. It's their right. To deny that they aren't the gender they're telling you is as bad as (if not worse) than keep on telling a dark coloured person offensive racist jokes and being like "oh, it's just a joke" or treating a woman like an inferior human being just because she happens to be a woman. We're not talking about treating someone because of the way they are, we are talking about treating someone in a way that just have nothing to do with the person they are.

I understand that it is someone's right to feel however they want, but that does not make it true. I feel like a goblin, am I a goblin? No, I likely have a disorder that should be be treated in that case. That's what you do with disorders - treat them. We don't encourage schizophrenic patients to listen to the voices, we dont encourage the depressed to cut their wrists, we don't encourage the drug addict to use, so we shouldn't encourage the man to pretend he is a woman. There are ways to deal with those emotions, and calling yourself a woman adds all kinds of complications. You can feel however you want, as you said, but belief won't make you a woman. You're actually the one saying they should hide behind a mask of the opposite sex rather than embrace themselves and learn to function as we do with all other disorders.

Look, I know how much you wished both sexes were equal, but we are not the same. I've been there and for the sake of the mental health of those people, just wake up and realise that what makes us different is not only our bodies. The way we think, the way we proccess things in our brains is different. What makes a person trans is not how feminine/masculine they are, it's the way they think. A transwoman have the body of a man, but thinks like a woman. A transman have the body of a woman, but thinks like a man.

So it really does come down to sexism, ok. Thought processes do not denote truth. Again voices, negative thoughts... we do not encourage these things because they cause disfunction and disorder. The more we encourage a man to believe his a woman the more cognitive dissonance we create, therefore the more disfunction. Again, I understand this, and it is only the position of other people that it's how masculine/feminine they are.

If gender equality says "let people be who they are", then why won't you let trans people be who they are? They are the gender they say they are, you must let them be who they are.

Because I am not ok just leaving people to suffer with their dysfunction, and find it disgusting to suggest otherwise.

If you really are pro gender equality, you must let them be who they are and treat them with the respect they truly deserve. To not let a man transition to the woman she really is ain't pro gender equality, you are actually being sexist if you do it. Sexism says that a man must do/act/be like that and can't do this, this, that... So, you are being sexist if you say that a person born with a penis can't be a woman. I honestly don't get why those feminists are so anti-trans, it doesn't make any sense! Say that a person with boobs and vagina can't be a man doesn't make you any different from the sexist people. You are against them! You can't think like them! You can't say that a person with a vagina can't be a man like them! You can't.

The bolded is one of the many problems here. You yourself just said that men and women are unequal and must be a certain way: "Look, I know how much you wished both sexes were equal, but we are not the same. I've been there and for the sake of the mental health of those people, just wake up and realise that what makes us different is not only our bodies. The way we think, the way we proccess things in our brains is different. " As I said, sexism. We are keeping gender segregation in place of treating a disorder.

Too bad there isn't a way to make people like him feel even just a fraction of the torment and anguish we (I use "we" because you use "us," correct me if I am wrong) go through.

On top of chronic pain, MDD, being raised jewish and being "LHP", being an "girly" man... forget all that, it is disgusting that you would wish torment and anguish on another person. First you are ok with 10% of gender tranformations leading to suicide, and now you hope people who disagree with you suffer from torment and anguish instead of facing that you have a disorder. On top of all else, what message does this send to other disordered people.

If they could only understand what it is to hate looking at yourself in the mirror, to feel lonely just because you have to be someone you're not around others, and to always have something that is constantly eating away at you. If they could only experience just a small part of agony, they wouldn't doubt.

Obviously you have no idea what massive depressive disorder is, and you couldn't possibly have a disorder of course.

Sorry, I just had to say that. I'm not trans, but I got able to understand how it might feel by researching and having an open mind. I also tried to experiment being the opposite sex for awhile. It was really impossible for me to deny that transgender people do exist and that the treatment many trans people receive is inhumane. It's hard to not try doing something about it.

I agree, which is why encouraging a neurotic causing delusion (again these are clinical terms, not insults) is a bad decisions, and treating people with body mutilation that may very well lead to suicidal ideology is just unnacceptable.

 

[dust1n]

It's people who, because their friends tell them they are feminine, they believe they have gender disorder. It's not hard to understand, it's actually a more easily understood disorder.

So, still no sufficient source material for these sorts of claims?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

On top of chronic pain, MDD, being raised jewish and being "LHP", being an "girly" man... forget all that, it is disgusting that you would wish torment and anguish on another person.

Not really, but it would make people quit doubting if they could have just a taste of inner turmoil and anguish that gender dysphoria brings, and the pains of emptyness from never being acknowledged as who you know you should be, or the stress of fighting against it.

First you are ok with 10% of gender tranformations leading to suicide,

I do believe I pointed it out earlier in this thread, those 10% have mood disorders.

It's people who, because their friends tell them they are feminine, they believe they have gender disorder.

That's why there are standards, known as the Standards of Care, that establish guidelines and protocols to filter out those who you speak of, and those who actually have gender dysphoria. Of course it isn't full proof, but, from my position, it seems like you think anyone can transition on nothing more than a whim.

Obviously you have no idea what massive depressive disorder is, and you couldn't possibly have a disorder of course.

Actually, I am diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome, major depressive disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, and gender dysphoria.

We don't encourage schizophrenic patients to listen to the voices, we dont encourage the depressed to cut their wrists, we don't encourage the drug addict to use,

That's because those are destructive, inhibit functioning, and are not good for the patient.

so we shouldn't encourage the man to pretend he is a woman.

First, it isn't "pretending." Second, it is not at all uncommon, once acceptance and transition has begun, for mood to elevate, quality of life to improve, and many even report no longer resorting to alcohol and drugs as a coping method. Myself, I gained direction and clarity in life, have started to care about what consequences my actions have on myself, went back to school, and my therapist and case worker have both noticed that my mood has been improving. For once in my life, I feel like I'm moving forward, and these steps forward happened because I accepted myself and have started transitioning.

You're actually the one saying they should hide behind a mask of the opposite sex rather than embrace themselves and learn to function as we do with all other disorders.

I tried. For many years I tried. But it didn't work, and for all those years all I knew was pain, agony, and I was very tormented.

Because I am not ok just leaving people to suffer with their dysfunction, and find it disgusting to suggest otherwise.

By saying those with gender dysphoria shouldn't transition, you are saying they should be left to suffer.

 

[1137]

Sorry @Shadow Wolf but I'm done. Please never be a therapist or anything.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Sorry @Shadow Wolf but I'm done. Please never be a therapist or anything.

Why? Because I agree with the established standards of care? Because I agree with organizations like the APA? Because I can say I have science to back up my position?
You are the one who should never be a therapist because according to you it would be better that I needlessly suffer. Your advice is that I ignore something I feel sehnsucht towards, even though following this harms no one and has been improving my life? That has made me miserable, has made me suicidal, and longing for death to release me from my agony. That is why you should never be a therapist.

 

[dust1n]

Sorry @Shadow Wolf but I'm done. Please never be a therapist or anything.

Given how sorely lacking any empirical evidence the overwhelming majority of your claims have been, and your general stern and dismissive (almost resentful and angry) tone, it wouldn't be asking too much for you to stop being a therapist, would it?

 

[kittyqueen]

Gender disphoria is a mental disorder (in the clinical sense) based around someone feeling the opposite sex, you are correct. I am not the one who believes that being feminine makes you actually a woman or anything, that's actually what I was making a point against. It's people who, because their friends tell them they are feminine, they believe they have gender disorder. It's not hard to understand, it's actually a more easily understood disorder.

While there are people that think they were supposed to be the opposite sex because of those stereotypes, there are people that are supposed to be treated like the opposite sex. You think that every single transitioning person are doing something harmful for them while most of them are actually doing what they need in order to be happy or to at least stop being depressed and anxious.

I understand that it is someone's right to feel however they want, but that does not make it true. I feel like a goblin, am I a goblin? No, I likely have a disorder that should be be treated in that case. That's what you do with disorders - treat them. We don't encourage schizophrenic patients to listen to the voices, we dont encourage the depressed to cut their wrists, we don't encourage the drug addict to use, so we shouldn't encourage the man to pretend he is a woman. There are ways to deal with those emotions, and calling yourself a woman adds all kinds of complications. You can feel however you want, as you said, but belief won't make you a woman. You're actually the one saying they should hide behind a mask of the opposite sex rather than embrace themselves and learn to function as we do with all other disorders.

Transitioning is the treatment for this disorder and making them "deal with their feelings" is the worst thing you can do. It's like making a gay person turn straight, it won't work and will just harm the person emotionaly to the point they could kill themselves. I'm not saying that they should wear a mask, I'm saying that they should drop their masks, but of course, people like YOU are unable to see the person they really are.

So it really does come down to sexism, ok. Thought processes do not denote truth. Again voices, negative thoughts... we do not encourage these things because they cause disfunction and disorder. The more we encourage a man to believe his a woman the more cognitive dissonance we create, therefore the more disfunction. Again, I understand this, and it is only the position of other people that it's how masculine/feminine they are.

No, it's the opposite. The more you force the "man" believing "he" is actually a man, the stronger the dissonance get. Since these transwomen were born they felt a disconnection between the way they perceive themselves and the way people like you see them. You say they are men, they get confused. You tell them to look into the mirror, they don't recognize the person they see. They are unable to see themselves, to be who they truly are and no, letting them be as feminine as a man can be won't work. The problem is not the fact that they can't wear dresses, the problem is the fact that they can't go to the female's public bathroom without being harassed.

Because I am not ok just leaving people to suffer with their dysfunction, and find it disgusting to suggest otherwise.

If you are so against it why are you doing the opposite of what you're saying?

The bolded is one of the many problems here. You yourself just said that men and women are unequal and must be a certain way: "Look, I know how much you wished both sexes were equal, but we are not the same. I've been there and for the sake of the mental health of those people, just wake up and realise that what makes us different is not only our bodies. The way we think, the way we proccess things in our brains is different. " As I said, sexism. We are keeping gender segregation in place of treating a disorder.

I'm trying to explain why it doesn't make any sense for you to be pro gender equality and against transgender people transitioning.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Transitioning is the treatment for this disorder and making them "deal with their feelings" is the worst thing you can do. It's like making a gay person turn straight, it won't work and will just harm the person emotionaly to the point they could kill themselves. I'm not saying that they should wear a mask, I'm saying that they should drop their masks, but of course, people like YOU are unable to see the person they really are.

I was about to mention myself that it's different but sort of similar to telling a homosexual to just "deal with it," and live their life either trying to pretend to be heterosexual or asexual, or try to cover their feelings up and not have a fulfilling life and romantic relationship with others even though it is right in front of them for the taking.

Since these transwomen were born they felt a disconnection between the way they perceive themselves and the way people like you see them. You say they are men, they get confused. You tell them to look into the mirror, they don't recognize the person they see. They are unable to see themselves, to be who they truly are and no, letting them be as feminine as a man can be won't work.

It really means a lot that you have taken the time to learn and try to understand. And the mirror thing, very true. After my first session of laser hair removal, when I was looking at my face observing the results, I noticed that I spend so very little time looking at my face that I didn't know if a couple of marks were already there, or if they were a result of the laser treatment. It turns out they came from the treatment, and went away on their own. And pictures are another thing. There are very few of them of me as a guy, and I really hate having my picture taken that way, and I always have. It's not me that I see, and it's a feeling that is much deeper and much worse than "something's not right." But, as a girl, I actually have an entire folder of selfies, and to see myself and not hate cameras is a wonderful feeling.

 

[1137]

Why? Because I agree with the established standards of care? Because I agree with organizations like the APA? Because I can say I have science to back up my position?
You are the one who should never be a therapist because according to you it would be better that I needlessly suffer. Your advice is that I ignore something I feel sehnsucht towards, even though following this harms no one and has been improving my life? That has made me miserable, has made me suicidal, and longing for death to release me from my agony. That is why you should never be a therapist.

Standards of care included things like electro shock therapy and the awful DSMs, and the APA ethics director himself and others we involved with DoD torture programs that have people leaving it. Good choices. But I guess dabblers who think they know it all would have no other real sources.

 

[1137]

Given how sorely lacking any empirical evidence the overwhelming majority of your claims have been, and your general stern and dismissive (almost resentful and angry) tone, it wouldn't be asking too much for you to stop being a therapist, would it?

The mere existence of psychology, the mere treatment of disorders throughout the past decades, is all the evidence necessary. If you want therapists who encourage and egg on disorders than I simply don't know what to say.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Standards of care included things like electro shock therapy and the awful DSMs, and the APA ethics director himself and others we involved with DoD torture programs that have people leaving it. Good choices. But I guess dabblers who think they know it all would have no other real sources.

Electro shock therapy is still used in some cases. And I didn't say just the APA. And I am not a "dabbler" or casual observer, as my concentration is in human behavioural sciences.
Really, you just seem bitter and angry and want people to inflict it upon others. My happiness is what matters, my enjoyment of life is what matters. You approach would do nothing except continue my suffering, bring about endless misery, and would put me back into a mode of suicidal thinking.

The mere existence of psychology, the mere treatment of disorders throughout the past decades, is all the evidence necessary. If you want therapists who encourage and egg on disorders than I simply don't know what to say.

You are the one who would "egg on" depression, anxiety, drug abuse, suicidal thoughts and wishes, deteriorated quality of life, and suffering in a patient.
You are simply unwilling to accept that those with gender dysphoria show improvement, overall, from transitioning. A very large majority become happier, socially at ease, enjoy life more, and do not have such a great burden and or degree of suffering from the dysphoria, and like it or not, I too am one of those who has gotten better, and people are noticing.

 

[1137]

Electro shock therapy is still used in some cases. And I didn't say just the APA. And I am not a "dabbler" or casual observer, as my concentration is in human behavioural sciences.
Really, you just seem bitter and angry and want people to inflict it upon others. My happiness is what matters, my enjoyment of life is what matters. You approach would do nothing except continue my suffering, bring about endless misery, and would put me back into a mode of suicidal thinking.

You are the one who would "egg on" depression, anxiety, drug abuse, suicidal thoughts and wishes, deteriorated quality of life, and suffering in a patient.
You are simply unwilling to accept that those with gender dysphoria show improvement, overall, from transitioning. A very large majority become happier, socially at ease, enjoy life more, and do not have such a great burden and or degree of suffering from the dysphoria, and like it or not, I too am one of those who has gotten better, and people are noticing.

Actually if you try a bit harder I've accepted the benefits of transition numerous times, you're simply pissed that I went and said we need something better (for some reason). Stop wasting my time.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Actually if you try a bit harder I've accepted the benefits of transition numerous times, you're simply pissed that I went and said we need something better (for some reason). Stop wasting my time.

You have a very funny way of putting it. And I'm wasting your time? LMAO!!! You're the one who keeps responding with your nonsense of comparing gender dysphoria and transitioning to believing your a space alien and letting those with schizophrenia do what the voices tell them to.

 

[1137]

Actually I straight up called it quits pages ago and people simply keep posting. Glad to see you weren't even reading my posts, gives me some hope.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Actually I straight up called it quits pages ago and people simply keep posting. Glad to see you weren't even reading my posts, gives me some hope.

Yeah, because quoting and replying to them means I haven't read them, LOL!