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Believers should not feel intimidated by so called experts on religion

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
One time I stated my beliefs, and because I believe in a single, universal God, a Pagan called me out for superimposing my beliefs on others.
As he tried to point out my perceived wrongs, he was basically trying to get me see God through his polytheistic lens, and he said he wasn't just expressing his opinion but that he was using facts(therefore superimposing his views on mine), making him look like the people he despised in my view.

I think the way I worded it triggered a knee-jerk reaction because I said that He is everyone's God, making the guy feel like I was deciding for him which deities are worth worshiping and which ones not.
Maybe they have difficulty seeing that a personal belief is just that "personal " and don't need a scrutiny from others.
 

lukethethird

unknown member
Believers should not feel intimidated by so called experts on religion
Learning something from an expert is intimidating?
What's the alternative?
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
It might be that the Tallban and other Muslims are following the same thing, but have different political viewpoints .. not that I'm saying they are.

eg. Republican Muslim and Democrat Muslim

That really has little to do with Islam.
I could understand that. But in that case, I think one would have to also claim that they are not true believers, but merely criminals exploiting Islam. I personally don't get the impression that this is the case, but rather that these people are very much religious and feel that they are doing what they believe "true" Islam or God want.

Assuming they are exploiting Islam or the teachings of the Quran, I expect God is not looking at that lightly. So they would obviously then be atheists really, pretending to be Muslims. I doubt that to be the case :D
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Believers should not feel intimidated by so called experts on religion
Learning something from an expert is intimidating?
What's the alternative?
The "experts" I speak of here is the atheists who believe they know and understand the religious practices better than the folloers and practitioner of those religions and spiritual teachings
 

lukethethird

unknown member
The "experts" I speak of here is the atheists who believe they know and understand the religious practices better than the folloers and practitioner of those religions and spiritual teachings

Most atheists were believers just like you so they know what it means to believe and practice, but that does not make them experts, it just means they are experienced. If you haven't noticed, a lot of atheists do know a lot about religions and their practices, and they usually score high on a religious quiz.

Psychology researchers, those that study beliefs and how humans formulate beliefs are experts in their field and we can learn from their findings.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Most atheists were believers just like you so they know what it means to believe and practice, but that does not make them experts, it just means they are experienced. If you haven't noticed, a lot of atheists do know a lot about religions and their practices, and they usually score high on a religious quiz.

Psychology researchers, those that study beliefs and how humans formulate beliefs are experts in their field and we can learn from their findings.
Some atheists are very nice to discuss with, but a few try to correct believers because the Atheist does not understand that someone can believe in something that "can't be proven" and they attack every bit of the religious teaching that could seem to say "harm the non believers" but they forget to see the very good that religious teaching do to millions of people.
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
I could understand that. But in that case, I think one would have to also claim that they are not true believers, but merely criminals exploiting Islam..
Well, I suppose one could say that.
However, I think it's easy for both sides of the argument to suggest that "somebody is not a Muslim, Christian etc." if they do not behave as they should behave,
..or that somebody IS a Muslim, Christian etc. if they behave in a certain way, and profess they do it "in the name of G-d".

I personally don't think that these type of definitions are reliable.
People often have political agendas, and one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

War is war. There are moral rules for war, and people from both sides often break them.
One moral rule that is often broken is the involvement of civilians. Desperate people do desperate things.
One doesn't need a religion or scripture to be involved with evil.
One doesn't need a religion or scripture to be a pacifist.

I personally don't get the impression that this is the case, but rather that these people are very much religious and feel that they are doing what they believe "true" Islam or God want.
Quite possibly so.
..but that is not equivalent to "Islam is to blame".
If a powerful Christian nation decides to invade another, and considers G-d on their side, does that mean Christianity is to blame?
 

syo

Well-Known Member
Experts don't deal with personal beliefs. They know some things or two about religions. Listen carefully what they say.
 

lukethethird

unknown member
Some atheists are very nice to discuss with, but a few try to correct believers because the Atheist does not understand that someone can believe in something that "can't be proven" and they attack every bit of the religious teaching that could seem to say "harm the non believers" but they forget to see the very good that religious teaching do to millions of people.

That's the thing, a lot of people, atheists and believers alike, do know what it means to believe in something that can't be proven and sometimes learn the mistake of that belief the hard way. Personally, I prefer to gain knowledge the old fashion way, by learning rather than believing what cannot be proven because that way of thinking is not a way of gaining knowledge. To have doubts, to suspend belief, to say I don't know, is wise.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
We get a lot of criticism but I wonder how much Baha’i literature if any, those who do so have ever read? I possess all the Holy Books of all the religions and Sufi writings too and I accept the truth in them all because I have read them and they are all enlightening and teach truth.
You must have one massive library. Where do you store it all?
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
That's the thing, a lot of people, atheists and believers alike, do know what it means to believe in something that can't be proven and sometimes learn the mistake of that belief the hard way. Personally, I prefer to gain knowledge the old fashion way, by learning rather than believing what cannot be proven because that way of thinking is not a way of gaining knowledge. To have doubts, to suspend belief, to say I don't know, is wise.
For me its more and more opost of you :) the spiritual lifestyle become so much more important than the "modern knowledge " faith and belief in God has become prority number one
 

lukethethird

unknown member
For me its more and more opost of you :) the spiritual lifestyle become so much more important than the "modern knowledge " faith and belief in God has become prority number one
What is a faith and belief in God supposed to prove? Are we claiming to know something about what we can know nothing about? What does that prove or say about us? Are we to be gullible, naïve?
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
What is a faith and belief in God supposed to prove? Are we claiming to know something about what we can know nothing about? What does that prove or say about us?
Personally I have faith in that if I can become one with God through the practice of sufism i may enter a form of paradise.
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
A religious person who hold a personal belief in any religion or spiritual teaching, has no reason to feel intimidated by a socalled expert on religion....there is not one answer fits all when it comes to spiritual practice.

An expert has an opinion, thats all.
Let them have their opinion, and the best part, just leave them alone :)
They try to tell you "you don't know your own personal belief" :D that is hilerious.
I find it funny that the so-called scholars have often never tried living the religions they critique.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Thats fine.
It's when people are illogical, or,make claims like that they know there was an origin to
the universe, and that they know what / when
the origin took place, well, that iscsilly and fair game for skeptics who doubt their wisdom.
No one here can disprove anyone else's divine revelation. But I don't think that means it should stand as "expertise", either. Humans ARE illogical. Even the ones that think they are the epitome of logic are still quite illogical. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't still try. Or that we should dismiss logical study by our fellow humans because it's not perfect. In the end, though, logic tends to be based on what "works" within the context to which it's being applied. And since that context is almost always subjectively chosen, and subjectively assessed, we (the subjects) end up having to make such determinations for ourselves. There isn't really any way around it.
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
Quite possibly so.
..but that is not equivalent to "Islam is to blame".
If a powerful Christian nation decides to invade another, and considers G-d on their side, does that mean Christianity is to blame?
So same would go the other way around then I assume? So is some Muslims did something good and despite them claiming that it was in the name of Islam, then that would also not be accurate, if I understand you correct?

Is Islam able to do or result in anything that is either good or bad in your opinion and if so, when does something count as if that is the case or not? If that makes sense?
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Believers should not be completely oblivious or discarding the damage any form of applied traditionalism does to society, stifling social progress when it doesn't meet flimsy moralistic arguments (e.g. treatment of women and minorities, 'faith based' medicine, wrapping up religious ideology in national identity etc.)

And atheists should not be oblivious that being a full time online skeptic isn't as great as having a personality they're usually wasting everyone's time because passive aggressive arguing online just entrenches people further. And that they can be so convinced the problem is religion they miss that homophobia, transphobia, sexism and racism is growing within atheist movements, particularly on the US and UK. They just rationalize it with pseudoscience instead of religious doctrine.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
You must have one massive library. Where do you store it all?

I have a moderate Kindle digital library with many scriptures from most religions. That would include many different translations of books like the Quran because not all translations include all the meanings. The same with the Bible, Gita, Vedas, Upanishads, Mahabharata and many other books such as history, the mind, meditation etc It’s not massive but it’s a start and along with meditation, reflection and action helps me learn a thing or two.
 

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