Bible Alone.. For Catholic's

[Dogknox20]

Not scriptural? Whose scriptures? One particular religion's scriptures?

The few bibles were written in Latin, and the common man could not speak Latin, so often had to go to a priest in order to translate the holy words of God.

Yet, the source of all that we know of God is from the bible. Therefore, the bible is man's only authority.

Clara Tea for 400 years there were NO bibles... The faith was spread by the word of Mouth! The Letters in the Bible were written BY Catholics, all Christians were Catholics! The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church Jesus established on ROCK not on Sand was the AUTHORITY! The Bible is a Book of the Catholic Church! The Bible was put together by Catholic none others!
LOOK...
Acts 17:11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

The Bereans were MORE Noble because they rejected Scriptures ALONE! They accepted the teaching of the Church plus the scriptures! Paul was TEACHING "Christ Resurrected" this teaching cannot be found in their Old Testament scriptures "They NEEDED Church to arrive at Truth!"
Those in Thessalonica were Less Noble because they rejected the Church for "Their Scriptures ALONE"! BUT....
Clara Tea but they will have an excuse when they stand in Judgement.. Their OT scriptures did not have written "Listen to the Church"! AS the Protestant does!
When the protestor the De-Formers stand in judgement they will not have any excuse for refusing to Listen to the Church they have written in their NT.. "Listen to the Church!" They are LESS then the less noble people from Thessalonica they are Ignoble!

 

[Dogknox20]

I agree. Scriptures are the words of God (or as close as we can come to them). There are errors in the bible, of course, and that means that the bible is not perfect (though God might have been). Furthermore, many kings and popes have changed the bible over time. For example, king Henry VIII wanted a divorce and the Catholic church would not grant it, so he started his own Anglican church, and against the advice of Sir Thomas Moore (his privy council, and Lord Protector of Great Britain), Henry wanted to run the Anglican church, as well. It was too much of a threat to his otherwise absolute power. Moore, by the way, is now St. Thomas Moore, having been sainted in recent times for sticking to his guns to defend the Catholic church and losing his head in the bargain.

Genesis 1: man was made before animals

Genesis 2: animals were made before man

Obviously this is a contradiction, so the bible is not perfect.

Clara Tea I hope all is well...
The Bible is NOT a book of science it is a Love Letter to us from God! The Bible was put together by the Catholic Church she alone with the help of the Holy Spirit decided the truly inspired words of God from the hundreds of phony letter kicking around at the time.. No one knew what the truly the inspired letters of God were! EVEN...

Clara Tea even if every letter had started with "This is the inspired words of God" we still would have needed an authority to weed out the Phony letters that would have also started with "This is the inspired words of God"! The Bible does NOT have a list of the Inspired words of God listed in scriptures! The Index of Books is put there by The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church! You have to accept she got it right or toss your bible out of your window! IF.....

Clara Tea If God the Holy Spirit helped her is deciding the truly Inspired words of God for her book don't you think; The Holy Spirit would NOT also stick around and help INTERPRET the same works!?
John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

John 14:16
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—

 

[Dogknox20]

Sorry, I don’t think they are the same. I think many have similar way to take few scriptures and form own doctrines around them and then reject Jesus and God.



Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to his disciples, according to the Bible.



If the Bible is from Catholic Church, why don’t they live by it, why they go against its teachings?

Hello 1213 I hope all is well...
You said.. Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to his disciples, according to the Bible.
I reply: Yes all were Catholics! All Disciples were ADDED to the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church Jesus established on ROCK not on sand!
First I point to Baptism.. Baptism makes Disciples!

18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing

1213 Jesus gave the Authority of Heaven to His Holy Church to Make Disciples by Baptism!
Jesus is the Brother of the Disciple! Logic says IF....

1213 if Jesus is your brother then God would be your father!
Matthew 12:49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers.
Baptism makes Disciples! Jesus is the Brother of the disciple!

Acts 2... Baptism ADDS us to Jesus' Body! Logic says.. IF...

1213 If you were IN Jesus then God would be your Father!
Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

1213 Do you see it.. 3000 were ADDED to the Body of Jesus by Baptism!
3000 people became Disciples!
Jesus became a Brother to 3000 people the first day of Pentecost!

Baptism removes sins and Jesus the "Groom" sends the Gift the Holy Spirit!
The Bride the Holy Church re-Forms Adams Children into God' Children by the waters of Baptism! I (me) a Catholic; has Two Parents "Bride the Holy Church and Groom God"! It takes two parents to form a Child! Two Parents to Re-Form Adams children into God' children! I was Adopted into God' Holy Family by Baptism I was ADDED to the Body of God' ONLY Son! IF...
I am IN Jesus then Logic says "Mary is thus my mother!

 

[Wildswanderer]

Wildwanderer YES anything or anyone but "Mary" the mother of Jesus!

Symbolism is good....
Luke 1:20 The angel said to her, `Do not be afraid, Mary. God has blessed you.

‘Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?’”

Wildwanderer Mary is Blessed Jesus is Blessed! Mary is the Mother of God!

Matthew 1:22
All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23 “The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel” (which means “God with us”).

Symbolism is good....
Mary the Mother of God is BLESSED!
Christians have ALWAYS honored Mary as Blessed!

46 And Mary said,
“My soul magnifies the Lord,
47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
48 for he has looked with favor on the lowliness of his servant.
Surely, from now on all generations will call me blessed;

Symbolism is good....
God cannot be your father if Mary is Not your mother!
Jesus cannot be your brother if Mary is Not your mother!
God honored Mary as blessed all In Mary's family are in the GENERATIONS honoring her as Blessed!
Jesus honors his Mother because it is a Commandment.. "Honor your father AND Mother!
The Body of Jesus His Holy Church honors Mary our Mother because Jesus does Christians for 2000 years have honored Mary our Mother!!

Of course, she was blessed to be chosen to carry Jesus. She was also a sinner.
That's no reason to pray to her. We are to pray only to God. Putting a human before God is blasphemy.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I Corinthians 3:15: [15] If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

Matthew 5[25-26] Make friends quickly with your accuser, while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison; truly I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny.

Thus, purgatory is an interpretation not only of these verses but also from the book of Maccabees plus some others.

A crazy, way off the mark, made-up interpretation.

 

[Wildswanderer]

If you say Mary is NOT the Mother of God... Just when did Jesus become God!? a day after is birth? a week?!

What kind of nonsense question is that? Jesus was always God. To believe otherwise is a denial of the Christian faith.

 

[Wildswanderer]

This is a false distinction. Maccabees is part of canon text, and the others are later writings of church leaders within the Apostolic Succession. They’re all “true.”

That church leaders' writing are not scripture. The early church leaders did not all agree on everything and they were not always correct. And the passage in Maccabees isn't about purgatory either...it's about some guy who prayed for his men who died in battle. We don't know what he prayed or why, or if he should have. It's just a historical footnote, nothing to do with doctrine.

 

[Wildswanderer]

To say Mary is NOT the mother of God 9is to reject the divinity of Jesus!

What a load of malarky. Jesus was not created by Mary. He always existed. To say that God was birthed by a human and came into existence then is to deny the very basis of Christainty.

 

[sojourner]

That church leaders' writing are not scripture

Doesn’t matter. It’s all part of the Tradition. Just Like Paul’s letters. He wasn’t writing “scripture.” You’re asking robing something way too legalistic to the concept of “canon.”

The early church leaders did not all agree on everything and they were not always correct

Who decides who’s correct, though? The church leaders (within the Apostolic Succession) are the ONLY “authorities” I know of. They decide who’s right and who’s not.

And the passage in Maccabees isn't about purgatory either...it's about some guy who prayed for his men who died in battle. We don't know what he prayed or why, or if he should have. It's just a historical footnote, nothing to do with doctrine

It does for the RCC…

 

[Wildswanderer]

Doesn’t matter. It’s all part of the Tradition.

Not for Protestants. We only follow the Bible. Sola scriptura.

 

[pearl]

It does for the RCC…

Not about purgatory, but praying for the dead.

 

[sojourner]

Not for Protestants. We only follow the Bible. Sola scriptura.

Don’t speak for me, Pal! Not all Protestants buy into sola scriptura. And since we are talking about RCC doctrine, not Protestant doctrine, the extra-biblical writings here are valid and apropos. It ain’t all about you.

 

[Dogknox20]

Of course, she was blessed to be chosen to carry Jesus. She was also a sinner.
That's no reason to pray to her. We are to pray only to God. Putting a human before God is blasphemy.

.
Christians do NOT worship Mary we Honor her! WORSHIP IS ONLY FOR GOD!
We ask Mary our Mother to go to Jesus for help, we petition her with requests for help!

Wildswanderer You ask your brother or sister to pray for you? Why would you? You are then committing blasphemy! Your pastor at your church prays for you.. OH NO..
The Pastor is committing blasphemy!

Mary is MORE Alive and IN Heaven Closer to Jesus then you or I, your Sister or Brother or your Pastor!
Honor your Mother is commanded.. If you are NOT in Jesus; Mary cannot be your mother! You said it yourself... Lois is your mother NOT Mary!
Wildswanderer Scriptures are clear...All in Mary's family will call her blessed Jesus is IN Mary's Family. Jesus cannot be your brother simply because; Mary is NOT your Mother!
God cannot be your Father because Jesus is NOT your brother you are NOT in Mary's family!!

Mary is the Mother of God!
Christians have always believed this truth!

 

[Dogknox20]

What kind of nonsense question is that? Jesus was always God. To believe otherwise is a denial of the Christian faith.

EXACTLY..... Jesus was always God even as he was born!
Jesus was God as he nursed from Mary!
Jesus was God as Mary changed his diaper!
Jesus was God as the Ambilocal cord was cut!
FACT: Jesus cannot die as a HUMAN if first he is NOT Born as a human!
Wildswanderer God died on the cross!

Only God is PERFECT only God is without sin... God came to us so he could DIE!
Jesus was Sinless; sin could NOT hold Jesus in the grave.. "The wages of sin is DEATH"!

 

[Dogknox20]

What a load of malarky. Jesus was not created by Mary. He always existed. To say that God was birthed by a human and came into existence then is to deny the very basis of Christainty.

The Flesh of Jesus came from Mary NOT Joseph!!
Mary carried Jesus in her womb but also supplied all of the genetic matter for his human body, since it was through her—not Joseph—that Jesus “was descended from David according to the flesh” (Rom. 1:3).

Wildswanderer Jesus is a Man/God Jesus was born a Man/God! 100% God & 100% Man

 

[Brian2]

So its not relevant. Tu QUoque. that's the whole point. So I would bid you that you dont try to justify someone else's Tu Quoque.

It is relevant because you say that because John's Gospel was later than the others it is less likely to be true.
It's just a way of pointing out to you that your argument is false. To call it Tu Quoque is just diverting away from that point.

Acts.

And it was not a disagreement between Paul and the other leaders in Christianity, and it ended you sorting things out concerning the relationship of the Law to the gospel, and putting in their place, those who were teaching that the Gentiles that they should be circumcised and obey the law.

 

[Brian2]

There’s a marked difference between disagreement and appendage.

True, the Mormons might be right in some of the appendages they add.

You’re making a false distinction here, as if the RCC marked a departure from the “real church.” It did not. The Roman church was (and is) a significant part of the church.

No false distinction. The writers of the New Testament were part of the Church but not part of the RC Church.
The RC Church is part of the Church but were not the writers of the New Testament.

No it’s not.

I don't think that any writings were being added to accepted NT Scripture at that stage (450) so for all intents and purposes it was closed,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but no official authority had come up with an official statement to that end and sorted out which books it was going to accept and which it was not.
Not everyone agreed and not everyone agrees now.
Which accepted canon is correct do you think?
Personally I go with the same one the Jews went with for the OT and see the NT canon as those books written in the first century and having apostolic authority and association.

Again: a false distinction.

Only if you see the RC Church as being the Church and not just part of the Church.
Israel for example existed in the time of the Judges and before there was a Temple and sacrifices in the Temple and Kings etc.

 

[firedragon]

It is relevant because you say that because John's Gospel was later than the others it is less likely to be true.
It's just a way of pointing out to you that your argument is false. To call it Tu Quoque is just diverting away from that point.

If you open a new thread to discuss Muhammed and the Qur'an, then that's a whole different story.

Otherwise, its just a Tu Quoque.

And it was not a disagreement between Paul and the other leaders in Christianity, and it ended you sorting things out concerning the relationship of the Law to the gospel, and putting in their place, those who were teaching that the Gentiles that they should be circumcised and obey the law.

Its explicitly a disagreement. Paul was accused of promoting an anti mosaic law theology and was asked to take the nazarait vow to show that he was adhering to the law and preaching accordingly.

Its explicit.

 

[Brian2]

If you open a new thread to discuss Muhammed and the Qur'an, then that's a whole different story.

Otherwise, its just a Tu Quoque.

If you say so,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but if you think that what John wrote is wrong because it was written later than the other gospels and possibly the last thing to be written in the NT then maybe other things written about Jesus after the gospel of John are also wrong for the same reason.

Its explicitly a disagreement. Paul was accused of promoting an anti mosaic law theology and was asked to take the nazarait vow to show that he was adhering to the law and preaching accordingly.

Its explicit.

There is definitely a disagreement between certain unauthorised teachers from Judea and Paul and Silas.
Where is Paul accused of anything by the Christian leaders in Judea?
Where is Paul asked to take a Nazarite vow to show that Paul was adhering to the law.

 

[metis]

A crazy, way off the mark, made-up interpretation.

You will never be a good student of biblical studies when you take such a position, as anyone who has spent time in serious scripture studies well knows and reflects that the simple fact that intelligent people can have different interpretations on a particular narrative. Also, it would also be better to abandon religious bigotry as well as that can terribly taint any attempt at objectivity.

As for me, I have no idea if purgatory is correct or not, nor do I lose any sleep over not knowing because I'm not the Judge.