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Biblical Contradictions

Vadergirl123

Active Member
Nope. No joy. The four gospel accounts are thematically and stylistically individual. They were written at different times and in widely diverse locations.
Yes they are so what? They all fit together with NO CONTRADICTIONS
They can't just be simply mushed together like that.
Yes they can be. Think about it if they did contradict they wouldn't be able to be "mushed together" into a cohesive story
That's not how the ancient storytelling mind worked. Each story is unique to itself.
Hahaha I'm not doing storytelling, I'm talking about an event based off of accounts, and showing how all those accounts fit together, and don't contradict each other.
 

Vadergirl123

Active Member
I like reading this thread, please continue. Whatever the reaction, your work is already helpful. Not everyone is a theologist and not every theologist is generous. But if some theologist force others to pay him for knowledge otherwise he/she'll attempt to keep you from knowledge and understanding, then the theologist is evil.
Edit: Well evil in terms of my interests
Thank you, glad to know you enjoy it, and I plan to continue there's still alot of "contradictions" to adress. :) I'm not a theologian though, and I would NEVER force people to pay me for knowledge haha.
 
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sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Yes they are so what?
Because it's like putting details from Star Wars in with details from Battlestar Galactica. Both have big ships, both have small fighters, both pit good against evil. But they are not the same story.
Yes they can be. Think about it if they did contradict they wouldn't be able to be "mushed together" into a cohesive story
Yes, and the mush story becomes a whole different story than any individual author wanted to tell. So, no, they can't be mushed together. Not only are some of the details contradictory, but the nuances, theological meanings, and literary impact of each story is vitally different from the others.

For example, for Mark, it's important to the gospel story as a whole (because each gospel is a whole story) that the women fled and told no one. To interject a telling damages the story Mark is trying to tell.
Hahaha I'm not doing storytelling, I'm talking about an event based off of accounts, and showing how all those accounts fit together, and don't contradict each other.
What you're failing to understand is that the gospel accounts are examples of storytelling -- not examples of factual reporting. So, when you deal with the gospels, you are dealing with storytelling. And if you treat the stories as factual reporting, you're missing a lot of the theological nuance.

Fact: Each gospel is a unique story, told with unique details.
Fact: Each gospel revolves around the Jesus Event.
Fact: Each gospel story differs in some significant detail.
Fact: Mushing them together distorts the unique message of each.
Fact: Contradictions exist.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Thank you, glad to know you enjoy it, and I plan to continue there's still alot of "contradictions" to adress. :) I'm not a theologian though, and I would NEVER force people to pay me for knowledge haha.
The real question is: Are you a "certified exegete?";)

If not, then your exercise is so much literary masturbation.
 

Melki

Member
The word is theologian. No theologian I know "forces" people to pay her or him.

Oh, sorry. Yeah Theologian.
I'm just supporting her to study and learn and to share. You know open source right? with the spirit of open source she could improve others' knowledge and her's, hat up for her.
 

Road Warrior

Seeking the middle path..
The bible isn't contradictory. I didn't say it was. I'm saying the people who copied the bible from it's original language into english made a few errors. Are we thinking of the same definition for a copyist?

The Bible is contradictory beginning with Genesis. The reason you mentioned is one reason. Another reason would be the relatively primitive and uneducated nature of man in those days. Things had to be explained to them very simply in order for them to understand the general concept like a parent attempting to explain "the birds and the bees" to a six year old.

I think it is very important to look at the Bible as a complete work in order to get the feel of its intent and message rather than parse it into snippets as those who dislike gays or want to subjugate women like to do.
 
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Me Myself

Back to my username
There's an earthquake, the angel of the Lord descends from Heaven, rolls back the stone, sits on it, and the keepers are terrified and become like dead men.( Matthew 28:2-4)
On their way the women wonder who'll roll away the stone( Mark 16:3) When they arrive they see that the stone is rolled away(Mark 16:4, Luke 24:2) and then enter into the sepulchre. They don't see CHrist's body( Luke 24:3)
When Mary Magdalene sees the stone is rolled away from the sepulchre and Christ's body is gone she runs to find Simon Peter and the other disciple whom Jesus loved. SHe says, "WE don't know where they have laid him(John 20:1-2) [We is emphasized b/c if she'd been alone(as John seems to suggest) she wouldn't have used a term that means more than one person.]
Meanwhile the other women are perplexed( Luek 24:4) Two angels stand by them and tell them what's happened.( Luke 24:4-7, Matthew 28:5-7, Mark 16:6-7)[ In the accounts of Matthew and Mark it mentions only one angel. That doesn't mean there weren't two however, and all the passages suggest the angels were inside the sepulchre.]
The women flee quickly and are trembling and amazed( Mark 16:8, Matthew 28:8, Luke 24:9.) However they're afraid and don't say anything to any man( Mark 16:8)
Peter and the other disciple(who Mary went to) arrive at the sepulchre and go inside and see Christ's body is gone(John 20:3-9) After they see it they both go to their home(John 20:10)
Mary stands at the Sepulchre weeping and she sees two angels in white(John 20:11-13) She sees Jesus(John 20:14-16) He tells her to go to his brethren(John 20:17)
The other women, still afraid(Mark 16:18) have Jesus meet up with them and he tells them to, "be not afraid" and to tell his brethren to go into Galilee where they'll see him.(Matthew 28:9-10)
The women obey( Luke 24:9) and they and Mary Magdalene tell the disciples(Luke 24:10) [Some think that the women NEVER told anyone but we can see from te other accounts that's simply not true. Jesus even knew they were afraid. That's why he told them to, "Be not afraid."]
Also we know Mary couldn't have been with the other women the whole time b/c the bible says Jesus appeared to her first( Mark 16:9):)

Well, then right there is your contradiction. I was about to tell you all the other contradictions your mesh up makes, but you already foind one here.

The bible says they told no one (in mark) and the bible says they told other people (in all the others)

that is called a contradiction.
 

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
Love how people infer "what God said/what he wanted" and how convenient it is that his judgement matches their arguments :D
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
The bible isn't contradictory.
She closes her eyes, inhales deeply, and begins to chant ...
The bible isn't contradictory ...
The bible isn't contradictory ...
The bible isn't contradictory ...
The bible isn't contradictory ...
The bible isn't contradictory ...
The bible isn't contradictory ...
The bible isn't contradictory ...
The bible isn't contradictory ...​
... it's calming, inspiring, self validating, and a whole lot easier than thinking.
 

Melki

Member
That part is a later interpolation -- not original to the story, and most likely not written by the author.

Including Mark 16:8 the second paragraph? I don't find this statement anywhere. What I could find is just Mark 16:9 as the later addition, I couldn't find (in my short time searching for it) Mark 16: 8 the second paragraph being the later addition.
 

Road Warrior

Seeking the middle path..
Including Mark 16:8 the second paragraph? I don't find this statement anywhere. What I could find is just Mark 16:9 as the later addition, I couldn't find (in my short time searching for it) Mark 16: 8 the second paragraph being the later addition.

Do not be afraid that this discounts what happened. Every police officer knows that if 12 people witness a traffic accident, an investigation will reveal 12 different versions of what happened. No one doubts the accident happened even though human failings may produce different viewpoints of the event itself.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Including Mark 16:8 the second paragraph? I don't find this statement anywhere. What I could find is just Mark 16:9 as the later addition, I couldn't find (in my short time searching for it) Mark 16: 8 the second paragraph being the later addition.
Mark 16:8 ends the original document: "So they went out and fled from the tomb, for terror had seized them; and they said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid." It's a cliffhanger.

The paragraph following is not numbered, and is referred to as "the shorter ending of Mark. Verse nine and following constitutes "the longer ending of Mark."
Neither of these appendices are original to the story, and are placed there in order to make Mark match the other gospels. In other words, they've butchered Mark's story in order to do what Vadergirl is attempting to do.

Note that, just as there is no birth narrative in Mark, so there is no real closure after the tomb is found empty. It's a literary strategy that stands in stark contradiction to the other three gospels -- just in that one detail, that is so important to Mark's literary strategy.
 

Vadergirl123

Active Member
Because it's like putting details from Star Wars in with details from Battlestar Galactica. Both have big ships, both have small fighters, both pit good against evil. But they are not the same story.
No it's NOT like that. It would be liek that if I had added Jesus doing miracles into the account. All accounts are of the SAME story, and if you read along(with the verse references I gave) then you'll see that ALL four stories START at the SAME time.

Yes, and the mush story becomes a whole different story than any individual author wanted to tell. So, no, they can't be mushed together. Not only are some of the details contradictory, but the nuances, theological meanings, and literary impact of each story is vitally different from the others.
No it doesn't...here I'll give you an analogy. Lets say I have three different people talk about my day(May 18th) Lets say one account says I wake up at 6 A.M, do school, eat lunch(12 P.M), and later on I go to sleep at 7 P.M....Another account says I wake up at 6A.M wash my hair, do my schoolwork, go to the gym(2P.M), and then I hang out with friends at 4P.M, the third says I wake up at 6A.M get my schoolwork done, eat pasta for lunch, watch a T.V show at 5:30, and go to bed at 7. Now lets say that someone then decides to write an account of my ENTIRE day. They'd say I woke up at 6 A.M, wash my hair, do my schoolwork, eat pasta for lunch, go to the gym, hang out with my friends, watch a T.V show, and then go to bed. Do you see how they ALL fit together. That's all I did with the resurection account.

For example, for Mark, it's important to the gospel story as a whole (because each gospel is a whole story) that the women fled and told no one. To interject a telling damages the story Mark is trying to tell.
No it doesn't, Mark just doesn't FINISH the story.
 

Vadergirl123

Active Member
you're missing a lot of the theological nuance.
Which ones am I missing?
Fact: Each gospel is a unique story, told with unique details.
Agreed and they all fit together into ONE story
Fact: Each gospel revolves around the Jesus Event.
Yes they do talk about Jesus, and the stories I discussed talk specifically about his resurrection
Fact: Each gospel story differs in some significant detail.
They don't differ, that's NOT a fact. Did you follow along with teh verses I gave?
Fact: Mushing them together distorts the unique message of each.
Not true the message is clear Christ rose.What are the individual messages that are being told in each story?
Fact: Contradictions exist.
Yes some people chose to BELIEVE they exist, but the bible shows that the stories DON't contradict each other
 

Vadergirl123

Active Member
The bible says they told no one (in mark) and the bible says they told other people (in all the others)

that is called a contradiction.
Mark doesn't FINISH the story. Yes the women were afraid and didn't tell anyone. But according to Matthew Jesus meets up with them and tells them they don't have to be afraid and to go tell his disciples( then they obey him). Did you follow along in the bible with the verse references? It's NOT a contradiction...it's just leaving a cliffhangar that the other accounts adress.
 
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