Biblical Contradictions

[Xchristian]

I honestly feel sorry for the lady who started this thread.
I was christian myself and have been fighting ghosts for years like she is doing.

Jesus lineage in Mathhew is that of Joseph, that of Luke is of Mary.
Very good what's the point mentioning Joseph's dad anyway? ... too much ink.

he said he would die and be resurrected in 3 days ..
alright it wasn't three but pretend it was three .. I accept that.
why were the diciples sad then? ... the only answer is: the film was so dramatic, they cried.

Ms Vandergirl, you take it on faith, add a bit of salt and pepper and BeLiEvE ,,, robot style.

If you love jesus, take off your brain and use your heart alone.
nobody on earth undertands the trinity .. why understand the bible?

 

[kylixguru]

nobody on earth undertands the trinity ..

Says who?

 

[Xchristian]

Says who?

the council of chalcedon, please read (the jesus wars) .. {carefully}

 

[waitasec]

Says who?

exactly...those who made up the trinitarian concept understood it very well.

 

[Xchristian]

how many thousands have died as a result of that faith?
I am not going to talk about poor flavian of the second council of ephesus.
the guy was beaten to death by the trinitarian thugs ... so that jesus becomes part of Father&Co limited.

 

[fallingblood]

how many thousands have died as a result of that faith?
I am not going to talk about poor flavian of the second council of ephesus.
the guy was beaten to death by the trinitarian thugs ... so that jesus becomes part of Father&Co limited.

There are many who understand the trinity. There are many works that help people understand the trinity. And really, the concept isn't too difficult.

I think your biases are shining through.

 

[Xchristian]

I think your biases are shining through.

thanks very much, still we can't bring back the thousands who were masacarred by trinitarians all over the place just because they like 3 better than 1.
any of Arius' works anyone? .. where are they?

any works survived that are not pro-trinity?
I guess perhaps only the Paulian epistles who had no idea about the 3rd component of god that have survived this massacre!

 

[kylixguru]

the council of chalcedon, please read (the jesus wars) .. {carefully}

This is a case of hubris. "If we can't figure it out, nobody can..."

Phooey!

 

[URAVIP2ME]

This is a case of hubris. "If we can't figure it out, nobody can..."
Phooey!

The pagan nations surrounding ancient Israel had triads of Gods and that non-biblical concept became mixed with Scripture.

Isn't Revelation [ 3 v 14 ] plain that Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God ?

God had no beginning [ Psalm 90 v 2 ]
Only God was before the beginning.
Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was before the beginning.

Even the 'heavenly resurrected to heaven' Jesus still thinks of himself as the Son of God according to Rev. 2 v 18

Jesus still thinks he has a God over him according to Rev. 3 v 12

There are Not three [3] LORD/Lord's mentioned at Psalm [ 110 v 1 ] but only two.
In order to have an equal triad wouldn't we need three [3] equal Lords ?
Of the two [2] LORD/Lord's mentioned at Psalm [110 v 1] only one is printed in all capital or upper-case letters in the KJV and that is because only where LORD appears in all capitals is where the Tetragrammaton [YHWH ] appears. The lower-case Lord [Jesus] is never in all capital letters because the Tetragrammaton never applies to Jesus.

 

[fallingblood]

thanks very much, still we can't bring back the thousands who were masacarred by trinitarians all over the place just because they like 3 better than 1.
any of Arius' works anyone? .. where are they?

any works survived that are not pro-trinity?
I guess perhaps only the Paulian epistles who had no idea about the 3rd component of god that have survived this massacre!

Honestly, I have no idea what you're going on about or how it relates to the discussion at hand. Maybe you would want to start a new thread discussing the Trinity.

 

[kylixguru]

The pagan nations surrounding ancient Israel had triads of Gods and that non-biblical concept became mixed with Scripture.

Isn't Revelation [ 3 v 14 ] plain that Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God ?

God had no beginning [ Psalm 90 v 2 ]
Only God was before the beginning.
Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was before the beginning.

Even the 'heavenly resurrected to heaven' Jesus still thinks of himself as the Son of God according to Rev. 2 v 18

Jesus still thinks he has a God over him according to Rev. 3 v 12

There are Not three [3] LORD/Lord's mentioned at Psalm [ 110 v 1 ] but only two.
In order to have an equal triad wouldn't we need three [3] equal Lords ?
Of the two [2] LORD/Lord's mentioned at Psalm [110 v 1] only one is printed in all capital or upper-case letters in the KJV and that is because only where LORD appears in all capitals is where the Tetragrammaton [YHWH ] appears. The lower-case Lord [Jesus] is never in all capital letters because the Tetragrammaton never applies to Jesus.

The problem with Paganism wasn't so much that there wasn't truth in it, it is that it was out of season. Each cycle of Creation has its own developmental blueprint when certain truths are to unfold at certain times. Once you get to the point of seeing the end from the beginning and how an entire creation is structured and what all of the times and seasons for the various levels of resurrection, glories, etc. are, they you can see that Paganism is full of valid bits and pieces that are out of place and therefore out of context.

The verse that best depicts the Trinity to me is Isaiah 44:6. It has the Lord God, King of Israel that needed to be redeemed (Adam, the King who transgressed and fell and became a Holy Ghost) and his Redeemer Lord of Hosts (the Savior Jehovah) entering into union to become the Almighty God who is Adam redeemed (Eloheim=Jehovah+Michael).

 

[james2ko]

one more thing...


i don't know how much weight you put on mark 16:9
but it says here


9 When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week,

Mar 16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.​

This is a mis-punctuated passage based on the translators preconceived beliefs of a Sunday resurrection. As you know the original Greek did not contain commas. They were added later. The tense of the Greek word translated "was risen" (anastas, an active aorist participle) suggests an action completed prior to the time of the main verb, in this case, "appeared."

According to this rule, the comma should have been placed after "rose" (NKJV) or "risen" (KJV). Thus, Jesus was resurrected sometime before He appeared to Mary Magdalene early on the first day of the week. The words of the angel to the women, "He is risen!" (Matthew 28:6;Mark 16:6;Luke 24:6) also give the sense that He was raised at some point prior to His Sunday morning appearances. So we see that this verse neither proves nor disproves a Sabbath or a Sunday resurrection! The clues about when He was really raised from the dead are found in other verses which I have already pointed out.

 

[james2ko]

The contradiction is in the Bible. I respect the Bible enough to read it as it is, and not twist the meanings around in order to fit my preconceived idea. You're not even reading the Bible here, but making up a completely new Gospel.

Mark is clear on the dating. Matthew is also clear on the dating. We can start in Chapter 27, verse 62. This is after the happening of the crucifixion. It says that the next day, which is the day after the Preparation day, (so Matthew is talking about the Sabbath, which is Saturday), some people have a problem with the tomb. Here, were are being told once again that Jesus is killed on Friday. The next chapter follows up that the day after the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, the women went to the tomb. So even clearer in Matthew, we have Jesus dying on Friday, guards being placed in front of the tomb on Saturday, and Jesus already having been risen on Sunday.

1. Matthew proves more than one Sabbath had past when the women came to the tomb:

Mat 28:1 Now after the Sabbath(s), [plural in the Greek] as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.​

Here's an interlinear reading from ISA. Notice how both renderings of "sabbath" are in the plural:


http://postimage.org/

Ironclad proof two separate individual sabbaths (Thursday-High Sabbath and Saturday-weekly Sabbath) had passed by the time the tomb was found empty! This is supported by points 2 and 3 below.

Luke is just as clear as well. Chapter 23 states Jesus was crucified on the Preparation day (a Friday), the next day is the Sabbath. It was exactly because of that that the women, who made the spices to anoint Jesus did not do so immediately. But they in fact did it the very next day (or were going to). And then on Sunday, the first day of the week, the day after the Sabbath, they go to the tomb.

With Luke, there is no wiggle room. Jesus dies on Friday. The women want to anoint Jesus right away, but can't because it becomes the Sabbath and follow the commandment. The very next day though, they go to the tomb. The story in Luke would make no sense if the women rested on the Sabbath, but then waited a couple of days to anoint Jesus.

2. It would if they rested on a High Sabbath on Thursday (First Day of Unleavened Bread/ Day after Passover--Joh 19:31), purchased and prepared the spices on Friday and rested on the weekly Sabbath. Just as recorded by Luke 23:54-56 and Mark 16:1!

Mar_16:1 Now when the Sabbath was past,[FDULB-First Day of Unleavened Bread-Thursday after sunset] Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, that they might come and anoint Him.

Luk 23:54 That day was the Preparation, [Friday] and the Sabbath drew near.
Luk 23:55 And the women who had come with Him from Galilee followed after, and they observed the tomb and how His body was laid.
Luk 23:56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath [Friday Sunset to Sat sunset] according to the commandment.​

The Gospels are clear. There were two preparation days (Wed-Passover and Friday) and two sabbaths (Thur-FDULB and Saturday)! between Christ's burial and resurrection. The true scenario (Wed to Sunday/burial-resurrection w/high sabbath and weekly sabbath in between) reconciles it, but your scenario (Friday to Sunday/Burial-resurrection), which is unsupported by scripture, does not. It would require a preparing of the spices on Saturday after sunset before they were even purchased [day of preparation-Friday] which is highly illogical.

Each of these Gospels make it clear that Jesus died on Friday, placed in the tomb before the Sabbath, and was raised by Sunday. That is not three days and three nights.

3. You're operating under the assumption the preparation day spoke of in the gospels is always a Friday. It isn't. A "preparation day" can be any day before a High Day which can fall on any day of the week.

Joh 19:31 Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day) the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
​

It specifically states the preparation day was the day Christ was crucified--Passover which was Wednesday. The day after was a High Day- Thursday- not the weekly Sabbath- Saturday. This is also supported by points 1 and 2 above.

 

[Xchristian]

Mar 16:9
​

.

Prof Ehrman gave a wonderful anecdote about people being bitten by snakes and then afterwords learning that Mark ends at 16:8.

I wonder why you bothered explaining something we all know is not part of the book!

 

[james2ko]

Prof Ehrman gave a wonderful anecdote about people being bitten by snakes and then afterwords learning that Mark ends at 16:8.

I wonder why you bothered explaining something we all know is not part of the book!

If that's the case, it strengthens my argument that Christ was not resurrected on Sunday. Appreciate your contribution!

 

[Xchristian]

The Gospels are clear. There were two preparation days (Wed-Passover and Friday) and two sabbaths (Thur-FDULB and Saturday)! between Christ's burial and resurrection. The true scenario (Wed to Sunday/burial-resurrection w/high sabbath and weekly sabbath in between) reconciles it, but your scenario (Friday to Sunday/Burial-resurrection), which is unsupported by scripture, does not.

to be honest, I wouldn't wonder if there are two jesus'es. bend the scripture to fit theology.

 

[james2ko]

to be honest, I wouldn't wonder if there are two jesus'es. bend the scripture to fit theology.

Two Jesus'? Where did I say there were two Jesus'? I think the one doing the bending is you, my friend..

 

[Xchristian]

Two Jesus'? Where did I say there were two Jesus'? I think the one doing the bending is you, my friend..

you're saying there were two Saturday's .. an impossible assumption
whereas there can well be two jesus'es .. actually this can be supported as there's dydamus thomas (twin) .. and as Dr Robert Price commented one of the diciples' names may translate into (the replacement) [check jesus is dead by professor Price].
So there may well be two Jesus, but it is impossible for ONE feast to have TWO preparation days, i.m.p.o.s.s.i.b.l.e.

 

[james2ko]

you're saying there were two Saturday's .. an impossible assumption
whereas there can well be two jesus'es .. actually this can be supported as there's dydamus thomas (twin) .. and as Dr Robert Price commented one of the diciples' names may translate into (the replacement) [check jesus is dead by professor Price].
So there may well be two Jesus, but it is impossible for ONE feast to have TWO preparation days, i.m.p.o.s.s.i.b.l.e.

Two Saturdays??? If you are under the assumption the term "sabbath" is exclusive to Saturday, you are sadly mistaken. The Jews also refer to their annual Holy Days as "Sabbaths" or High Sabbaths. Do to the nature of their calendar, most of these High Sabbaths can fall on any day during the week. In our example, there was one (high)sabbath on Thursday (First Day of Unleavened Bread), the other on Saturday. Each had preparation days so two preparation days and two Sabbaths, p.o.s.s.i.b.l.e

 

[waitasec]

Mar 16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.​

This is a mis-punctuated passage based on the translators preconceived beliefs of a Sunday resurrection. As you know the original Greek did not contain commas. They were added later. The tense of the Greek word translated "was risen" (anastas, an active aorist participle) suggests an action completed prior to the time of the main verb, in this case, "appeared."

According to this rule, the comma should have been placed after "rose" (NKJV) or "risen" (KJV). Thus, Jesus was resurrected sometime before He appeared to Mary Magdalene early on the first day of the week. The words of the angel to the women, "He is risen!" (Matthew 28:6;Mark 16:6;Luke 24:6) also give the sense that He was raised at some point prior to His Sunday morning appearances. So we see that this verse neither proves nor disproves a Sabbath or a Sunday resurrection! The clues about when He was really raised from the dead are found in other verses which I have already pointed out.

but of course.....and this is evidence of what do you suppose????
:slap: