Biblical Infallibility

[ThuggishSplicer]

THE CHURCH(counsel)!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[McBell]

And Christ explicitly gave His Church(Catholic) much authority!!! If we follow Christ we also follow what he said- This includes the Church. I don't believe in Sola scripura due to the fact that it is not taught in the Bible.

I notice not one single verse was presented.....

 

[ThuggishSplicer]

The bible says so. Second Timothy 3:16 and Tidus 2:13 and 14. You are not a Budhist.

Where is Dr Jecto when I need 'em.

 

[astarath]

ooooh to fish one hook sweet!!!

To the first, the Book of Acts as Paul was responsible as a soldier of the sanhedrin to track down and expose Christians ( often leading to stoning for heresy). I suppose you were speaking of Pauline Christianity as you could learn nothing of the others merely from the epistles and Canonical gospels.

To the other... your accredidation looks nice in the forum there lies no proof of any of your experiences. There does however lie proofs that the catholic church has divine say is a falsehood and forgery. There are proofs that Paul was a liar and twisted teachings. There are proofs that as one church grew Paul's teachings led to the slaughter of several branches of Christianity in his name. And also there are many proofs that he was not originally a leader but merely a glorified follower who lucked out by being included in the roman crowd! But as a historian you are aware of the circumstances of which I speak already.

 

[ThuggishSplicer]

I notice not one single verse was presented.....

I can give Biblical reference! But REALLY!
a) Are you protestant?
b) Have you studied the Bible enough to see that Jesus gave the Church authority?

-References are coming...

 

[ThuggishSplicer]

ooooh to fish one hook sweet!!!

To the first, the Book of Acts as Paul was responsible as a soldier of the sanhedrin to track down and expose Christians ( often leading to stoning for heresy). I suppose you were speaking of Pauline Christianity as you could learn nothing of the others merely from the epistles and Canonical gospels.

To the other... your accredidation looks nice in the forum there lies no proof of any of your experiences. There does however lie proofs that the catholic church has divine say is a falsehood and forgery. There are proofs that Paul was a liar and twisted teachings. There are proofs that as one church grew Paul's teachings led to the slaughter of several branches of Christianity in his name. And also there are many proofs that he was not originally a leader but merely a glorified follower who lucked out by being included in the roman crowd! But as a historian you are aware of the circumstances of which I speak already.

So if I kill ten thousand people tomarrow, in your name, you will be held responsible?

 

[astarath]

i cant wait for the references...

 

[ThuggishSplicer]

Last two chapters of John. Mathew 16... More?

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

Frubals-o-love for Mestemia and Ayani. I agree with the two of you.

Anything man made, man fiddled with, or anything divine filtered through man in any way is not going to come out infallible. It is like running a load of laundry through a washing machine your dog crapped in. It ain't coming out clean. The substance is still there, you just gotta go through a lot of crap to get to it.

 

[ThuggishSplicer]

I do not find the slightest particulate of joy in making extensive lists...

 

[ayani]

Jesus the Sage said many wonderful things, and Paul focused pretty much solely on the supposed death and resurrection instead of the teachings.

this is true. because every person coming to know Him personally will be coming from a different background. what they had previously been or believed falls away in Christ. so from whatever old way of thinking or living they were rescued by faith, that'll usually be their focus.

now Paul was a devout Jew, who followed Jewish law and tradition carefully, and believed that his devoted and careful actions made him right with God. on the road, he met and heard the Lord, and everything changed. he changed. not because he had done anything ritually proper, or at the correct time of day, but because grace had flooded his heart with faith.

so Paul's emphasis was heavily on how the risen Christ (whom he met on the road) changes our lives. how we are dead to the old us, and new in Him who lives. He also emphasized the futility of works to bring us near to God, exactly because what he gained in Christ through faith made all of his past worshipful acts pale so greatly. so Paul emphasizes strongly that it is faith in and total commitment to the risen Lord that makes us new and right with God, not the things we do.

Paul does not, however, tell Christians to just believe and then sit back. He shows that the believer is new in Christ, and alive spiritually because of Him. thus, is more like Him. the means being more forgiving, loving, humble, prayerful, patient, and refraining more readily from sin, all things Jesus emphasized strongly.

so Paul, coming from where he comes from, emphasizes salvation by faith, the death of the old self, and the power of the risen Lord to transform lives and selves.

when i talk about Jesus, my emphasis will be different from Paul's. i tend to focus on what Jesus teaches about prayer, and how coming to faith in Him changed my relationship with God. ask me, and i'll talk about the fruits of the Spirit, the unique Sonship of Jesus, and the importance of discipleship. not the same as Paul's focus, but we're both talking about the same Man.

 

[ThuggishSplicer]

Frubals-o-love for Mestemia and Ayani. I agree with the two of you.

Anything man made, man fiddled with, or anything divine filtered through man in any way is not going to come out infallible. It is like running a load of laundry through a washing machine your dog crapped in. It ain't coming out clean. The substance is still there, you just gotta go through a lot of crap to get to it.

Your "Philosiphy" is obviously fallacy(like most Philosophy. This is like saying God using the contaminate air makes the Ten Commandments invialate!!!!!

 

[McBell]

Last two chapters of John. Mathew 16... More?

Perhaps you could be less specific?
Do you have a verse or not?

 

[McBell]

Your "Philosiphy" is obviously fallacy(like most Philosophy. This is like saying God using the contaminate air makes the Ten Commandments invialate!!!!!

Merely saying it is a fallacy does not make it a fallacy.
Perhaps you would be so kind as to name the specific fallacy or fallacies that apply?

 

[ThuggishSplicer]

Perhaps you could be less specific?
Do you have a verse or not?

I beg your forgiveness. I am used to conversing amungst Biblical intelects.
Let me get my LIST.:sarcastic

 

[ThuggishSplicer]

Merely saying it is a fallacy does not make it a fallacy.
Perhaps you would be so kind as to name the specific fallacy or fallacies that apply?

Even if it is not fallcetic, it doe not contain one spec of reason or logic.(proof)
" Gah! Damned Youngsters! Got to teach 'em every little thing in a duscusshin"

 

[Riverwolf]

Last two chapters of John. Mathew 16... More?

Just skimmed through the last two chapters of John.

No mention of church establishment.

As for Matthew 16...

"And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it." (Matt. 16:18)

"Peter" means rock. I know that in Catholicism, Peter was considered the first Pope, and the founder of the Christian Church.

 

[McBell]

I do not find the slightest particulate of joy in making extensive lists...

No one asked for a list of all the verses.
Interesting that you have yet to present even one verse to start out at.

I beg your forgiveness. I am used to conversing amungst Biblical intelects.

I already figured you are used to preaching to the chior.
I am not in your chior.
In fact, I am hoping you are not looking to present the same old nonsense that almost every single Catholic presents to "prove" that the Church was given authority.

Let me get my LIST.:sarcastic

Still waiting.

 

[McBell]

Even if it is not fallcetic, it doe not contain one spec of reason or logic.(proof)
" Gah! Damned Youngsters! Got to teach 'em every little thing in a duscusshin"

Thus far all you have been teaching is how to avoid direct questions to your opinions.

 

[ayani]

yet if we follow Christ, it would reason that we want to follow what He has said, and be like Him in what He has done.

the Gospels tell us who He is, what He said, what he did, and what He has claimed about Himself. if we trust others' opinions on Him and not the inspired Word of God, we're falling into a heck of a lot of danger. Mohammad says one thing about Him. Baha'u'llah says another, and so does Sylvia Brown. but each of these people gives a false and distorted view of Him. to know Him for who He is, we must look at the real-life portraits of Him we have in the Gospel narratives.

no church body can reconcile us to God, Thug. not Lutherans, Catholics, Greek Orthodox, or Baptists.

a church is just made of people. people are prone to error- we're not God, or the Son of God. to equate the risen and eternal Lord Jesus with a collection of sinful people... is wrong.

we are the body of Christ in that we as His disciples are His words, hands, and love in action in the world. "they will know you are My disciples if you love one another". a church's claim to be the body of Christ doesn't mean it *is* Christ, or can do what He does.

faith in Him, and living a new life of discipleship for Him, in Him, and because of Him makes one a Christian. Christian faith must be a personal choice, by faith and God's grace, and living out that faith through the fruits of the Holy Spirit (which include acts of Christian love and service). no church or person can make the choice for you.

And Christ explicitly gave His Church(Catholic) much authority!!! If we follow Christ we also follow what he said- This includes the Church. I don't believe in Sola scripura due to the fact that it is not taught in the Bible.