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Biblical Literary criticism: valid?
- Thread starter an anarchist
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dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
The Jewish Bible critics are worse than the rest. I'm not making an equivalency. I pointing out criminal behavior.
No, worst than the rest is the ugly hypocrisy of l'shon hara for the sake of Torah. We're done ...
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
There is no safe quarter for criminals under the guise of lashon hara.
"Ugly" <--- a shallow, superficial, and small compliant. You really don't know Judaism do you: LINK
I guess that's what happens when all a person does is criticise.
You're denying and running away? Typical.
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dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
The answers to the questions are often contrived and based on grossly incomplete data sets.
That's why I answered the way I did. The critic does not look at their own methods with the same critical approach they direct at others.
Put simply: they rarely question their own work. They only question others.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Jewish bible critics actively avoid approx 1000 years of collected wisdom regarding Jewish scripture in order to justify slicing the scripture into little pieces. That is not establishing the most authoritative source. And as we have seen from @Jayhawker Soule , they will hide behind their Jewish identity ("I'm Jewish don't criticise me" ), deny everything and run away. That's what it means when Jay invoked lashon hara. He's saying: "They're Jewish, don't point out their flaws in public."
Of course he attacked me in public without a single qualm. Y'all should realize the sort of behavior Jay engages in here. For those who are new... the man does this.
Herzlich
New Member
Thank you
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Jewish Biblical Criticism: What is it? Dishonesty
In order to properly understand the conflict that was exposed in this thread between myself and @Jayhawker Soule , one needs to understand the history of Jewish Biblical Criticism. It needs to be put in its time and in its place. One needs to understand its motives. One needs to understand its methods. Jewish Biblical Critics hide this information from the public. They are exceptionally dishonest about why, and how they produce their criticism. They masquerade as academics, but they're better described as con-artists. To the non-Jewish outside observer, this is either a shocking accusation, or perhaps it appears to be, like Jay falsely accused, typical for the dishonest Jewish Bible Critic, a point of view clouded by a sort of anti-science political right-wing conservative ideology.
Jay knows I'm not a right-winger. Jay knows I've never voted Republican a day in my life. Jay knows I'm a progressive. Jay knows I'm educated, intelligent, and, am not in any way a science denier. But Jay is behaving like a stereotypical Jewish Bible Critic, he cannot and will not engage in the content of the this discussion. Because if he does, he knows he's going to lose. He knows me well enough to know that if I say I've got the evidence, I've got the evidence. I don't bluff. I stomp. I do what's right. And this faux-academic Jewish Biblical Criticism is wrong. It's deceptive. They're liars. And when someone shows them they're liars. They will assassinate your character, call you names, and run away.
How did it begin? Ignorance
Jewish Biblical Criticism is the primary expression of the core, central value of Reform Judaism. Yes. Their core religious value, their religion, is criticism. This core value replaced the core value of mainstream Judaism which was a commitment, a religious duty, to live a Jewish way of life which was fundamentally unique and distinct from the "others". There is nothing inherently wrong with this, of course. They, the Reform Jew, wants to be just like the non-Jew. They want to eat your food. They want to intermarry with your children. They want to wear your clothes. They want to look like you, and talk like you, join the world community. Great! But, this came with a price.
In Germany, in the late 1800s, this desire to be just like everyone else, coalesced into a movement. The leaders and intellectuals of this movement refused to learn from the Rabbis who were the leaders and teachers of mainstream Judaism. These Rabbis encouraged distinction, and differences, and separation between the Jewish community and the host country where the Jewish people had found themselves.
This is not something that is easy to understand or discover for the non-Jewish outside observer. The reason is simple. The non-Jewish outside observer is reading an English translation made by Christian evangelists which makes sense. The non-Jewish outside observer would never, never, consider that a Rabbis help would be needed to read the "Old Testament". The story is there. It's a little confusing, but, for the non-Jewish observer, the "Old Testament" is the pre-amble for the "New Testament". Anything which is confusing about it is reconciled by Jesus. Perhaps the reason it's confusing is purely so that there can be a Jesus figure to come and save the Jewish people from their own confusion! It makes sense without any Rabbi, of course! In fact Jesus preached against the prevailing Jewish authorities of his day, of course the intelligent, academic, modern Jewish person is going to reject the Rabbis. Of course! That's what Jesus is teaching! The non-Jewish outside observer has forgotten. The "Old Testament" is NOT the Hebrew Bible. It is a translation. The translation erased, covers up one of the greatest mysteries of the Jewish faith: the various divine names of our God, the one known as the God of our ancestors, the God of Sarah, Rebecca, Leah, and Rachel, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Questions.... surrounding the "Old Testament"? No. Jewish Biblical Criticism began with 1 question and it is still asking that same question which was surrounding the entire Torah and Tanach. What is the meaning, significance, and reasons for using different names for our God? That is the question. It needs a Rabbi to answer it. The Reform movement does not have Rabbis who can answer these questions. I know, because I have deep roots in the Reform Movement. I know because I've congregated with Rabbis educated in their seminaries. I've engaged in deep religious debates with them. Their answers are shallow, superficial. They engage in name calling. When in doubt they answer, almost universally with one word. It's the MO, the Modus Operandi of the Reform Rabbi. When in doubt, just say it's pagan. Disgusting.
That is what is taught in their seminaries. When in doubt, just tell them it's pagan. It's what they're teaching to our Jewish young people. They won't tell the truth. The truth is: "I don't know the answer, because, those answers are taught by the Orthodox Rabbis, and I refuse to learn from them." No. They won;t tell the truth. It hurts too much to admit it. Instead, they deny, deny their ignorance, and hide.
I have been behind the scenes in these congregations. Invited. Because many of their temples are cold. And lifeless. They struggle getting 10 people to show up. They have members, who pay dues, but they do not participate. So they call me, Daniel, to come help them. I'm enthusiastic. I love yiddishkeit. I bring joy and energy and life wherever I go. I have a song playing in my heart, 24/7, and I am not afraid to sing it, out loud, and proud, wherever I find myself. They invited me to their temples, to give them ideas. They can't get people to participate. But they forget, that I am listening to them, call names, and degenerate the others in the back rooms of their religious institutions. It is not a coincidence that the Reform Rabbi on this forum rarely participates except for rare occasions when he pops out of his den, and is poking fun at the other members here. This is what they do. Make fun, bully others, and run away. All of it is covering for their own ignorance. Typical bullying.
In order to properly understand the conflict that was exposed in this thread between myself and @Jayhawker Soule , one needs to understand the history of Jewish Biblical Criticism. It needs to be put in its time and in its place. One needs to understand its motives. One needs to understand its methods. Jewish Biblical Critics hide this information from the public. They are exceptionally dishonest about why, and how they produce their criticism. They masquerade as academics, but they're better described as con-artists. To the non-Jewish outside observer, this is either a shocking accusation, or perhaps it appears to be, like Jay falsely accused, typical for the dishonest Jewish Bible Critic, a point of view clouded by a sort of anti-science political right-wing conservative ideology.
Jay knows I'm not a right-winger. Jay knows I've never voted Republican a day in my life. Jay knows I'm a progressive. Jay knows I'm educated, intelligent, and, am not in any way a science denier. But Jay is behaving like a stereotypical Jewish Bible Critic, he cannot and will not engage in the content of the this discussion. Because if he does, he knows he's going to lose. He knows me well enough to know that if I say I've got the evidence, I've got the evidence. I don't bluff. I stomp. I do what's right. And this faux-academic Jewish Biblical Criticism is wrong. It's deceptive. They're liars. And when someone shows them they're liars. They will assassinate your character, call you names, and run away.
How did it begin? Ignorance
Jewish Biblical Criticism is the primary expression of the core, central value of Reform Judaism. Yes. Their core religious value, their religion, is criticism. This core value replaced the core value of mainstream Judaism which was a commitment, a religious duty, to live a Jewish way of life which was fundamentally unique and distinct from the "others". There is nothing inherently wrong with this, of course. They, the Reform Jew, wants to be just like the non-Jew. They want to eat your food. They want to intermarry with your children. They want to wear your clothes. They want to look like you, and talk like you, join the world community. Great! But, this came with a price.
In Germany, in the late 1800s, this desire to be just like everyone else, coalesced into a movement. The leaders and intellectuals of this movement refused to learn from the Rabbis who were the leaders and teachers of mainstream Judaism. These Rabbis encouraged distinction, and differences, and separation between the Jewish community and the host country where the Jewish people had found themselves.
!!! When they stopped learning from the Rabbis, the Torah stopped making sense to them !!!
^^ That is the beginning of Jewish Biblical Criticism ^^
What is written above is the dirty little secret that Jewish Biblical Critics, "Scholars", Academics are hiding from you. Jewish Biblical Criticism is the highest form of an argument from ignorance that I have ever witnessed. I can say this conclusively because I have studied the underlying mechanisms of negative, harmful forms of cognition. It is the highest form of ignorance because it is rooted in denial. It's not a matter of circumstance that the Jewish Biblical Critic is ignorant. The Jewish Biblical Critic is in denial. They know their objections and questions can be answered by Rabbis, but they refuse to look at what they have written. They deny. They avoid. They run away. They hide. Like school yard bullies who name call and harass those who make them feel inferior, the Jewish Bible Critic is afraid. They're afraid to admit to themselves and the world, "I'm an Ignorant Jew, I don't know what my own Torah means. I can't read it without a Rabbis assistance, but I'd rather assimilate."^^ That is the beginning of Jewish Biblical Criticism ^^
This is not something that is easy to understand or discover for the non-Jewish outside observer. The reason is simple. The non-Jewish outside observer is reading an English translation made by Christian evangelists which makes sense. The non-Jewish outside observer would never, never, consider that a Rabbis help would be needed to read the "Old Testament". The story is there. It's a little confusing, but, for the non-Jewish observer, the "Old Testament" is the pre-amble for the "New Testament". Anything which is confusing about it is reconciled by Jesus. Perhaps the reason it's confusing is purely so that there can be a Jesus figure to come and save the Jewish people from their own confusion! It makes sense without any Rabbi, of course! In fact Jesus preached against the prevailing Jewish authorities of his day, of course the intelligent, academic, modern Jewish person is going to reject the Rabbis. Of course! That's what Jesus is teaching! The non-Jewish outside observer has forgotten. The "Old Testament" is NOT the Hebrew Bible. It is a translation. The translation erased, covers up one of the greatest mysteries of the Jewish faith: the various divine names of our God, the one known as the God of our ancestors, the God of Sarah, Rebecca, Leah, and Rachel, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
!!! When they stopped learning from the Rabbis, they lost the ability to commune with God !!!
Questions.... surrounding the "Old Testament"? No. Jewish Biblical Criticism began with 1 question and it is still asking that same question which was surrounding the entire Torah and Tanach. What is the meaning, significance, and reasons for using different names for our God? That is the question. It needs a Rabbi to answer it. The Reform movement does not have Rabbis who can answer these questions. I know, because I have deep roots in the Reform Movement. I know because I've congregated with Rabbis educated in their seminaries. I've engaged in deep religious debates with them. Their answers are shallow, superficial. They engage in name calling. When in doubt they answer, almost universally with one word. It's the MO, the Modus Operandi of the Reform Rabbi. When in doubt, just say it's pagan. Disgusting.
That is what is taught in their seminaries. When in doubt, just tell them it's pagan. It's what they're teaching to our Jewish young people. They won't tell the truth. The truth is: "I don't know the answer, because, those answers are taught by the Orthodox Rabbis, and I refuse to learn from them." No. They won;t tell the truth. It hurts too much to admit it. Instead, they deny, deny their ignorance, and hide.
I have been behind the scenes in these congregations. Invited. Because many of their temples are cold. And lifeless. They struggle getting 10 people to show up. They have members, who pay dues, but they do not participate. So they call me, Daniel, to come help them. I'm enthusiastic. I love yiddishkeit. I bring joy and energy and life wherever I go. I have a song playing in my heart, 24/7, and I am not afraid to sing it, out loud, and proud, wherever I find myself. They invited me to their temples, to give them ideas. They can't get people to participate. But they forget, that I am listening to them, call names, and degenerate the others in the back rooms of their religious institutions. It is not a coincidence that the Reform Rabbi on this forum rarely participates except for rare occasions when he pops out of his den, and is poking fun at the other members here. This is what they do. Make fun, bully others, and run away. All of it is covering for their own ignorance. Typical bullying.
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dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
The Particular Mystery Of The Divine Names in the Hebrew Bible:
The non-Jewish outside observer would never know that there is a mystery of the divine names in the Hebrew bible for two very simple reasons.
First the outside observer is reading a translation which is obscuring the various divine names. In some modern translations, there are attempts to recover from this. But, for most individuals, they are reading books which use the word, "Lord" or "God" or "Almighty" or some other general appellation. The original Hebrew is not using general terms to describe our God. No. The divine names are rich with meaning which are specific and in context bring out layers of rich texture to the story which is lost on most modern readers. But, the translations do not include these details, instead the translator uses a general label representing what was originally a highly detailed specific moniker.
Over-generalization is the best friend and partner of the unjust critic. Over-generalization permits all sort of unfair critique particularly racism, bigotry, and stereotyping. This is why the Jewish Biblical Critic and the leaders of the Reform Movement engage in bully behaviors. They are habitually engaging, and encouraging within themselves, the cognitive defects which produce bullying someone with a clear conscience: over-generalizing the target of their harassment.
The second reason that the outside non-Jewish observer would never know that there is a mystery of the divine names in the Hebrew bible has been demonstrated by @jimb. Jimb assumes, apparently, that the “Old Testament” is the same as the “Hebrew Bible”. They have forgotten that there is any difference. The non-Jewish outside observer lacking recognition of the difference between the “Old Testament” and the “Hebrew Bible” will never look at a Hebrew Bible to see what it says. They have no reason to do so. The have the “Old Testament”. They’ll never know how much was lost in the translation.
This is why the non-Jewish observer is not able to appreciate the depths of the deceptive tactics employed by the Jewish Biblical Critics. It’s because the non-Jewish observer is not aware of the details which are being intentionally hidden, avoided, omitted, and erased by these Jewish Critics.
Jewish Biblical Criticism is Cognitive Distortion:
Because Jewish Biblical Critics will not admit to themselves and to others that they are ignorant and in denial of the explanations collected over a thousand of years of Jewish scholarship, a unique sort of cognitive distortion is created in their mind. It has a silly name, but, it’s a perfect, Cinderella fit. The cognitive fault in the mind of the Jewish Biblical Critic is as follows:
Since there are multiple names of God in the Torah, there MUST be multiple Gods being described there. These stories MUST be from different authors.
But, they are ignoring the undisclosed assumption: “If I refuse to listen to any of the Orthodox Rabbis who explain the reasons for these different names.”
It MUST be, only because he Jewish Biblical Critic is ignorant, literally ignoring all the other reasons why the different names are used. And they will attack any who show them they’re wrong.
It’s musterbation. That’s literally what it’s called. The Jewish Biblical Critic is gratifying themselves by ignoring any other alternative view. It is religious for them. That’s what produces the irrational certainty: there MUST be multiple authors of the Torah. And then they do scholastic back flips and somersaults to force the evidence to point to their conclusion.
Non-Biased Evidence shows Jewish Biblical Criticism is a FAIL:
For over 100 years, Jewish Biblical Critics have been using various techniques to falsify reasons to slice up the Hebrew bible into pieces per the religious beliefs of the Reform Judaism Movement. In 2011, computer software was developed which disproved all the work they had done. All of it centers around needing to figure out why the Torah uses different names for God. That's why the critic divides sources based on the divine names. The Elohist source... the Yahwist source...
Once Reform Judaisms religious bias is removed from the equation: There were two and only 2 "sources", if that is even a proper term to use. The Torah was composed in two “voices”. One was written for an audience of temple priests. The other was written for the general population. That’s it.
Those of us in the orthodox community had known for a long time the Reform Movement was lying about their “scholarship”, but now, there is proof that the deceptive practices, putting their fingers on the scales, did not produce a viable conclusion. Despite their efforts to deceive, they failed. Have they learned their lesson? Nope.
phys.org
The non-Jewish outside observer would never know that there is a mystery of the divine names in the Hebrew bible for two very simple reasons.
First the outside observer is reading a translation which is obscuring the various divine names. In some modern translations, there are attempts to recover from this. But, for most individuals, they are reading books which use the word, "Lord" or "God" or "Almighty" or some other general appellation. The original Hebrew is not using general terms to describe our God. No. The divine names are rich with meaning which are specific and in context bring out layers of rich texture to the story which is lost on most modern readers. But, the translations do not include these details, instead the translator uses a general label representing what was originally a highly detailed specific moniker.
Over-generalization is the best friend and partner of the unjust critic. Over-generalization permits all sort of unfair critique particularly racism, bigotry, and stereotyping. This is why the Jewish Biblical Critic and the leaders of the Reform Movement engage in bully behaviors. They are habitually engaging, and encouraging within themselves, the cognitive defects which produce bullying someone with a clear conscience: over-generalizing the target of their harassment.
The second reason that the outside non-Jewish observer would never know that there is a mystery of the divine names in the Hebrew bible has been demonstrated by @jimb. Jimb assumes, apparently, that the “Old Testament” is the same as the “Hebrew Bible”. They have forgotten that there is any difference. The non-Jewish outside observer lacking recognition of the difference between the “Old Testament” and the “Hebrew Bible” will never look at a Hebrew Bible to see what it says. They have no reason to do so. The have the “Old Testament”. They’ll never know how much was lost in the translation.
This is why the non-Jewish observer is not able to appreciate the depths of the deceptive tactics employed by the Jewish Biblical Critics. It’s because the non-Jewish observer is not aware of the details which are being intentionally hidden, avoided, omitted, and erased by these Jewish Critics.
Jewish Biblical Criticism is Cognitive Distortion:
Because Jewish Biblical Critics will not admit to themselves and to others that they are ignorant and in denial of the explanations collected over a thousand of years of Jewish scholarship, a unique sort of cognitive distortion is created in their mind. It has a silly name, but, it’s a perfect, Cinderella fit. The cognitive fault in the mind of the Jewish Biblical Critic is as follows:
Since there are multiple names of God in the Torah, there MUST be multiple Gods being described there. These stories MUST be from different authors.
But, they are ignoring the undisclosed assumption: “If I refuse to listen to any of the Orthodox Rabbis who explain the reasons for these different names.”
It MUST be, only because he Jewish Biblical Critic is ignorant, literally ignoring all the other reasons why the different names are used. And they will attack any who show them they’re wrong.
It’s musterbation. That’s literally what it’s called. The Jewish Biblical Critic is gratifying themselves by ignoring any other alternative view. It is religious for them. That’s what produces the irrational certainty: there MUST be multiple authors of the Torah. And then they do scholastic back flips and somersaults to force the evidence to point to their conclusion.
Non-Biased Evidence shows Jewish Biblical Criticism is a FAIL:
For over 100 years, Jewish Biblical Critics have been using various techniques to falsify reasons to slice up the Hebrew bible into pieces per the religious beliefs of the Reform Judaism Movement. In 2011, computer software was developed which disproved all the work they had done. All of it centers around needing to figure out why the Torah uses different names for God. That's why the critic divides sources based on the divine names. The Elohist source... the Yahwist source...
Once Reform Judaisms religious bias is removed from the equation: There were two and only 2 "sources", if that is even a proper term to use. The Torah was composed in two “voices”. One was written for an audience of temple priests. The other was written for the general population. That’s it.
Those of us in the orthodox community had known for a long time the Reform Movement was lying about their “scholarship”, but now, there is proof that the deceptive practices, putting their fingers on the scales, did not produce a viable conclusion. Despite their efforts to deceive, they failed. Have they learned their lesson? Nope.
'Ghostwriting' the Torah? New algorithm distinguishes contributors to the Old Testament with high accuracy
A professor has developed a new computer algorithm to help unravel the different sources that contributed to the authorship of the scriptures. Sidestepping the problems of content-based analysis, his algorithm searches for patterns in writing style to give deeper insight into ancient writings...
www.sciencedaily.com
An Israeli algorithm sheds light on the Bible
Software developed by an Israeli team is giving intriguing new hints about what researchers believe to be the multiple hands that wrote the Bible. The new software analyzes style and word choices to distinguish parts of a single text written by different authors, and when applied to the Bible...
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YellowFeather
Member
1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God; for they are spiritual discerned.
That verse The natural man does not have the Spirit of God, so God does not know him. That verse means that the natural man does not know God because he does not have God's Spirit. 2 Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received not the Spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
That verse The natural man does not have the Spirit of God, so God does not know him. That verse means that the natural man does not know God because he does not have God's Spirit. 2 Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received not the Spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
YellowFeather
Member
True wisdom of the Bible comes with true devotion in studding the Bible. One virus does not give the meaning of the word. One has to read the entire Bible to get the whole truth of the word of God. When you read don't skip scriptures and don't add your own meaning. The Bible is true to its word. Give it your all patience and faith in God to believe in his words.
I read what @dymbh wrote and it is obvious that he does not understand what literary (in this case, Biblical) criticism is. In your case, you are erroneously thinking that post applied to you.
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Herzlich
New Member
Thanks for the clarificatiion.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Good grief. I'm wrong but you can't articulate the reasons?
In other words, you don't like my point of view as matter of preference not rational reasons.
It's fine. I'm certainly not asking you to believe in the Bible. I'm asking the Reform Movement to stop lying about it.
Why are you so hot-headed about this?
Again, there are totally different meanings to "literary" or "biblical" criticism and personal criticism.
Biblical criticism: Textual - focused on establishing the most authoritative source; philosophical - study of biblical languages (Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic); literary - the various literary genres of a text; tradition - traces the development of oral traditions; form -classifying writings according to preliterary forms; redaction - how the documents were assembled; historical - interpreting biblical writings in the context of their historical settings.
Personal criticism: censure, condemnation, denunciation.
It has nothing to do with your point of view; it has to do with your lack of knowledge. Is that rational enough for you?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your personal definition (separate meanings from the above): Jewish Biblical Criticism began with 1 question and it is still asking that same question which was surrounding the entire Torah and Tanach. What is the meaning, significance, and reasons for using different names for our God? That is the question. It needs a Rabbi to answer it. The Reform movement does not have Rabbis who can answer these questions.
What you are complaining about is relevant to the Jewish faith; a different subject than Biblical criticism.
a) If it needs a rabbi to answer it, are you a rabbi?
b) The statement that "the Reform movement does not have Rabbis who can answer these questions" is absurd.
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Jewish Bible critics are criminals??? LOL!!!
Sadly, it reflects a deeply malignant contempt for rational enquiry.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
I thought you were done.
You have no idea, because researching it would hurt too much. So much for agnosticism as the path towards rational inquiry.
Jewish Biblical Criticism has been proven to be a FAIL. Yet the Reform Movement continues to push for slicing and dicing the Torah.
Why is that Jay?
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Jewish Bible critics are criminals??? LOL!!!
They're exempt from rational inquiry? Why is that?
Improper weights and measures is a serious offense in Jewish law. Jay knows that. But he chose to invoke Lashon Hara, after committing the same Jewish crime himself, even though it's a stupid tactic. If that worked no one would ever get accused of a crime.
Look. They are lying. It's criminal by Jewish standards. But it's not, technically bearing false witness. It's putting their fingers on the scales, which in Judaism is a serious crime.