Biden, Pence and Trump.... the tale of the classified documents

[We Never Know]

Don't forget Chris Christie, and some other more rational republicans. If Nikki Haley wanted Trump she wouldn't be running against him. Nor would any of the other republicans running for the nomination. Most of them are cowards and afraid of Trump's insults, so they won't say much against him in public.

The grounds for imveachment were valid, and it's only because republicans have become an unethical organization that MOST, not all, didn't vote against him. And you seem to forget McConnell, and even McCarthy, went on long tirades against Trump after Jan 6. Their justification for not impeaching him then was because he was voted out and leaving anyway.

"Don't forget Chris Christie, and some other more rational republicans. If Nikki Haley wanted Trump she wouldn't be running against him. Nor would any of the other republicans running for the nomination. Most of them are cowards and afraid of Trump's insults, so they won't say much against him in public."

That doesn't change the fact that its clear the dems want Trump gone, out of politics

"The grounds for imveachment were valid, and it's only because republicans have become an unethical organization that MOST, not all, didn't vote against him. And you seem to forget McConnell, and even McCarthy, went on long tirades against Trump after Jan 6. Their justification for not impeaching him then was because he was voted out and leaving anyway"


That doesn't change the fact that the two failed impeachments are evidence the dems wanted Trump gone and that one impeachment they openly admitted they knew they couldn't win but wasted time doing it anyway.

 

[We Never Know]

I made this post on a thread yesterday but its seems my post fell victim to the groundhog day disappearance. So I thought I would make it into a thread.....

Biden, Pence and Trump all three had classified documents in unsecure ares that they shouldn't have had.

Biden and Pence claimed they didn't know, stuck to that, cooperated and the records were returned/retrieved (some through a consent to search) with no problem.

Trump knew he had some, denied/lied he had them, tried to get others to lie about them, didn't cooperate, had to have search warrants served to retrieve them, etc.


Now Biden and Pence when compared to Trump don't look bad..... Maybe Trumps actions even helped them look better.

Bottom line is they all three had classified documents in unsecure area's that they shouldn't have had.... Therefore they all three, in reality, commited the same offense.

Should Biden and Pence be given a pass?

Here's a new spin on it......

Trump lacked power to declassify secret nuclear arms document, experts say​

"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Even when he was president, Donald Trump lacked the legal authority to declassify a U.S. nuclear weapons-related document that he is charged with illegally possessing, security experts said, contrary to the former U.S. president’s claim.

The secret document, listed as No. 19 in the indictment charging Trump with endangering national security, can under the Atomic Energy Act only be declassified through a process that by the statute involves the Department of Energy and the Department of Defense.

For that reason, the experts said, the nuclear document is unique among the 31 in the indictment because the declassification of the others is governed by executive order.

“The claim that he (Trump) could have declassified it is not relevant in the case of the nuclear weapons information because it was not classified by executive order but by law,” said Steven Aftergood, a government secrecy expert with the Federation of Atomic Scientists."

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[F1fan]

"Don't forget Chris Christie, and some other more rational republicans. If Nikki Haley wanted Trump she wouldn't be running against him. Nor would any of the other republicans running for the nomination. Most of them are cowards and afraid of Trump's insults, so they won't say much against him in public."

That doesn't change the fact that its clear the dems want Trump gone, out of politics

And many republicans. These are smart citizens. Trump needs to go away and face his legal accountability quietly. Many conservatives complain about corruption, unless it is Trump's. Are you any different?

"The grounds for imveachment were valid, and it's only because republicans have become an unethical organization that MOST, not all, didn't vote against him. And you seem to forget McConnell, and even McCarthy, went on long tirades against Trump after Jan 6. Their justification for not impeaching him then was because he was voted out and leaving anyway"


That doesn't change the fact that the two failed impeachments are evidence the dems wanted Trump gone and that one impeachment they openly admitted they knew they couldn't win but wasted time doing it anyway.

Trump is corrupt, and unfit for office. He never was fit for office.

 

[HonestJoe]

Bottom line is they all three had classified documents in unsecure area's that they shouldn't have had.... Therefore they all three, in reality, commited the same offense.

Should Biden and Pence be given a pass?

For that specific offence, Trump could have received a pass too. When it was first realised that he had some documents he shouldn't, he was just asked to return them. If he'd simply done that in the first place, he'd be in exactly the same position as Biden and Pence on the matter.

Trump dug his own grave when he resisted the request to return the documents, returned some but lied by claiming they were all he had and then still resisted returning the remaining documents, which is what led to the search of Mar-al-Lago. There is also apparently evidence of him actually showing some of the documents to various people. All of that falls under a whole range of additional (and more serious) offences, which is why he is currently facing a court case while Biden and Pence aren't. The whole thing is entirely down to Trump's own actions.

 

[We Never Know]

And many republicans. These are smart citizens. Trump needs to go away and face his legal accountability quietly. Many conservatives complain about corruption, unless it is Trump's. Are you any different?

Trump is corrupt, and unfit for office. He never was fit for office.

None of that changes what I said.

Biden is mentally unfit for office. Lets get him out.

 

[F1fan]

None of that changes what I said.

You singled out democrats as if only democrats are the smart and wise citizens. No, there are some smart and wise republicans too. It's not a large number, but there are some.

Biden is mentally unfit for office. Lets get him out.

Really? Not from his performance thus far, so could your questionable judgment be your bias at work?

 

[We Never Know]

You singled out democrats as if only democrats are the smart and wise citizens. No, there are some smart and wise republicans too. It's not a large number, but there are some.

Really? Not from his performance thus far, so could your questionable judgment be your bias at work?

I never said dems are smart and wise. Thats your bias.

"62% of adults say his(Biden's) mental fitness is a real concern about his ability to be president"

https://www.npr.org/2023/05/23/1177617666/more-than-6-in-10-say-bidens-mental-fitness-to-be-president-is-a-concern-poll-fi#:~:text=Respondents%20were%20asked%2C%20%22Thinking%20about,strategy%20used%20by%20his%20opponents.

 

[We Never Know]

For that specific offence, Trump could have received a pass too. When it was first realised that he had some documents he shouldn't, he was just asked to return them. If he'd simply done that in the first place, he'd be in exactly the same position as Biden and Pence on the matter.

Trump dug his own grave when he resisted the request to return the documents, returned some but lied by claiming they were all he had and then still resisted returning the remaining documents, which is what led to the search of Mar-al-Lago. There is also apparently evidence of him actually showing some of the documents to various people. All of that falls under a whole range of additional (and more serious) offences, which is why he is currently facing a court case while Biden and Pence aren't. The whole thing is entirely down to Trump's own actions.

Of course. Hence this statement in the OP...

"Trump knew he had some, denied/lied he had them, tried to get others to lie about them, didn't cooperate, had to have search warrants served to retrieve them, etc."

 

[Heyo]

I made this post on a thread yesterday but its seems my post fell victim to the groundhog day disappearance. So I thought I would make it into a thread.....

Biden, Pence and Trump all three had classified documents in unsecure ares that they shouldn't have had.

Biden and Pence claimed they didn't know, stuck to that, cooperated and the records were returned/retrieved (some through a consent to search) with no problem.

Trump knew he had some, denied/lied he had them, tried to get others to lie about them, didn't cooperate, had to have search warrants served to retrieve them, etc.


Now Biden and Pence when compared to Trump don't look bad..... Maybe Trumps actions even helped them look better.

Bottom line is they all three had classified documents in unsecure area's that they shouldn't have had.... Therefore they all three, in reality, commited the same offense.

Should Biden and Pence be given a pass?

The real criminal in this case is NARA. Letting people (even the prez) take such documents and not recording it or not requesting them back after a period by an agency who is tasked with exactly that is criminal negligence.
Why is nobody asking how it was even possible that so many people had top secret, sometimes even compartmentalized, documents in their possession without following proper protocol? How could such a culture of indifference towards secrets even develop?

 

[We Never Know]

The real criminal in this case is NARA. Letting people (even the prez) take such documents and not recording it or not requesting them back after a period by an agency who is tasked with exactly that is criminal negligence.
Why is nobody asking how it was even possible that so many people had top secret, sometimes even compartmentalized, documents in their possession without following proper protocol? How could such a culture of indifference towards secrets even develop?

Not to mention the people who pack a presidents things should be able to see "classified" or top secret" on them and not pack them.

And if they don't have clearance for those kind of documents, they shouldn't be handling them in the first place.

 

[HonestJoe]

Of course. Hence this statement in the OP...

"Trump knew he had some, denied/lied he had them, tried to get others to lie about them, didn't cooperate, had to have search warrants served to retrieve them, etc."

Which contradicts your statement that Trump (only) committed the same offence as Pence and Biden. He is accused of committing many more, and more serious, offences than either Pence or Biden have been, which is why he is facing a different legal response.

 

[Twilight Hue]

None of that changes what I said.

Biden is mentally unfit for office. Lets get him out.

Definitely.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Not to mention the people who pack a presidents things should be able to see "classified" or top secret" on them and not pack them.

And if they don't have clearance for those kind of documents, they shouldn't be handling them in the first place.

You would think there would be a reporting system in place to make sure those type of documents are accounted for.

 

[We Never Know]

Which contradicts your statement that Trump (only) committed the same offence as Pence and Biden. He is accused of committing many more, and more serious, offences than either Pence or Biden have been, which is why he is facing a different legal response.

Good grief!! They all commited the same offense of possessing classified documents in unsecure areas that they shouldn't have had.
Is it really that hard to understand?

 

[anna.]

Bottom line is they all three had classified documents in unsecure area's that they shouldn't have had.... Therefore they all three, in reality, commited the same offense.

Should Biden and Pence be given a pass?

Not the same. Trump obstructed, lied, showed the documents to people without clearances, and left the documents to be found by God knows who, friend or foe. In a bathroom. At a golf club.

And yes, Biden and Pence should be given a pass. Absolutely. Their possession appears to be inadvertent. Trump's was intentional.

 

[We Never Know]

Not the same. Trump obstructed, lied, showed the documents to people without clearances, and left the documents to be found by God knows who, friend or foe. In a bathroom. At a golf club.

And yes, Biden and Pence should be given a pass. Absolutely. Their possession appears to be inadvertent. Trump's was intentional.

Did they or did they not all three have classified documents in unsecure area's that they shouldn't have had? That is the same offense they all three commited

I'm not talking about Trumps other charges.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Did they or did they not all three have classified documents in unsecure area's that they shouldn't have had? That is the same offense they all three commited

I'm not talking about Trumps other charges.

Trump is not being charged at all for having classified documents in unsecured areas. The wilful retention charge is based on refusing to hand over the documents.

https://www.npr.org/2023/06/09/1181340894/trump-indictment-classified-documents-charges

 

[anna.]

Did they or did they not all three have classified documents in unsecure area's that they shouldn't have had? That is the same offense they all three commited

I'm not talking about Trumps other charges.

Did Biden or Pence commit any of the following?

This is what Trump is charged with:

• 31 counts of willful retention of national defense information under the Espionage Act
• One count of conspiracy to obstruct justice
• One count of withholding a document or record
• One count of corruptly concealing a document in a federal investigation
• One count of concealing a document in a federal investigation
• One count of scheming to conceal
• One count of making false statements and representations for allegedly causing his lawyer to certify that all classified documents had been turned over to federal authorities on June 3

 

[We Never Know]

Did Biden or Pence commit any of the following?

This is what Trump is charged with:

• 31 counts of willful retention of national defense information under the Espionage Act
• One count of conspiracy to obstruct justice
• One count of withholding a document or record
• One count of corruptly concealing a document in a federal investigation
• One count of concealing a document in a federal investigation
• One count of scheming to conceal
• One count of making false statements and representations for allegedly causing his lawyer to certify that all classified documents had been turned over to federal authorities on June 3

Who said they did?

Did Biden and pence commit the following.

-have classified documents in unsecure area's that they shouldn't have had?

 

[Heyo]

Who said they did?

You.
Well, you didn't say it directly but you alluded to it with the question whether Biden and Pence should be given a pass.

Did Biden and pence commit the following.

-have classified documents in unsecure area's that they shouldn't have had?

Did Trump commit it? Was he given a pass?

Your question should have been whether Biden, Pence and Trump should be given a pass as non of the three are indicted of that crime.